Alex Anthopoulos Departing

[glory]

The Rays manage to do it on a much smaller budget. They almost never trade prospects for established/bonafide major leaguers. Honestly the best thing for the franchise would probably be to trade one of Vladdy/Bo a year before free agency. Hang onto guys like Teo who broke out late and aren't highly-touted around the league. Continue trying to make some shrewd/low-risk FA signings.

 

The WORST thing for this team IMO would be to make another Berrios-type trade and fully torpedo the farm. A single season can be derailed due to a couple key injuries, I don't like the "all-in" method unless you're trading for players with multiple years of control.

 

The best direction to go, as boring as that might seem, is to follow the same path AA has done with the Braves. Just go for the best 1 year deals every winter. Atkins already did that last winter (aside from Springer), and it worked better than anyone could have dreamed of. Instead of falling in love with those 1 year deal players, just let them leave as free agents, and try to find the next Semien and Ray while continuing to build up the farm system. That's the safest "sustained contention" model, because if they add another big FA deal and/or trade more top prospects, then they run the risk of unintentionally building that short contention window much like the Cubs did. The Astros have done the opposite, where they let top FA's leave, and replaced them mostly internally. They did trade prospects, but it always seemed from a position of depth, rather than emptying the cupboard.

 

I would love to trade for Ramirez, and he would fit this lineup/roster like a glove, but whether it's the right move with long term contention in mind is debatable, depending on who they would have to give up. If there is a trade for a player coming off a down year that will cost much less to acquire (ex. Chapman), then that's likely a better avenue to take. Otherwise, just like last year, try to find the best short term deals in free agency.

[Stangstag]

The best direction to go, as boring as that might seem, is to follow the same path AA has done with the Braves. Just go for the best 1 year deals every winter. Atkins already did that last winter (aside from Springer), and it worked better than anyone could have dreamed of. Instead of falling in love with those 1 year deal players, just let them leave as free agents, and try to find the next Semien and Ray while continuing to build up the farm system. That's the safest "sustained contention" model, because if they add another big FA deal and/or trade more top prospects, then they run the risk of unintentionally building that short contention window much like the Cubs did. The Astros have done the opposite, where they let top FA's leave, and replaced them mostly internally. They did trade prospects, but it always seemed from a position of depth, rather than emptying the cupboard.

 

I would love to trade for Ramirez, and he would fit this lineup/roster like a glove, but whether it's the right move with long term contention in mind is debatable, depending on who they would have to give up. If there is a trade for a player coming off a down year that will cost much less to acquire (ex. Chapman), then that's likely a better avenue to take. Otherwise, just like last year, try to find the best short term deals in free agency.

 

Agreed

[Ray]

I agree with the first paragraph. But isn't the stuff in bold the responsibility of the Team President? Shouldn't that blame fall on Beeston? Or do I have that wrong? I always thought it was Shapiro who was revamping our facilities and support teams (not Atkins). I mean we shouldn't be surprised that Beeston wasn't up to date on the current needs of athletes and such.

 

That's probably a fair statement, but it's still nice to have a GM that inherently believes in player development at the major league level and doesn't have a quick trigger finger. They went through the growing pains with guys like Toescar and Gurriel at the major league level, and now they've matured to become core pieces of the team (granted, they could afford to give playing time to those guys during the rebuild).

[John_Havok]

The best direction to go, as boring as that might seem, is to follow the same path AA has done with the Braves. Just go for the best 1 year deals every winter. Atkins already did that last winter (aside from Springer), and it worked better than anyone could have dreamed of. Instead of falling in love with those 1 year deal players, just let them leave as free agents, and try to find the next Semien and Ray while continuing to build up the farm system. That's the safest "sustained contention" model, because if they add another big FA deal and/or trade more top prospects, then they run the risk of unintentionally building that short contention window much like the Cubs did. The Astros have done the opposite, where they let top FA's leave, and replaced them mostly internally. They did trade prospects, but it always seemed from a position of depth, rather than emptying the cupboard.

 

I would love to trade for Ramirez, and he would fit this lineup/roster like a glove, but whether it's the right move with long term contention in mind is debatable, depending on who they would have to give up. If there is a trade for a player coming off a down year that will cost much less to acquire (ex. Chapman), then that's likely a better avenue to take. Otherwise, just like last year, try to find the best short term deals in free agency.

 

Agree with everything here, and right now the catching situation is the Jays position of depth. I can easily see them dangling Kirk or Jansen as trade bait, running with the other guy as the main with (insert random backup here) until Moreno is ready. It's probably not at the point where they need to do something imminently, but if Moreno keeps going the way he is going... unless a position change happens with him, one of them will have to go.

[Stangstag]

Agree with everything here, and right now the catching situation is the Jays position of depth. I can easily see them dangling Kirk or Jansen as trade bait, running with the other guy as the main with (insert random backup here) until Moreno is ready. It's probably not at the point where they need to do something imminently, but if Moreno keeps going the way he is going... unless a position change happens with him, one of them will have to go.

 

Agreed with those 3, one of them could definitely be moved for pitching something.

 

Groshans and Orelvis I think we should be keeping though, especially after trading away Martin. Unless the front office believes that they’re gonna be busts and think we should offload while their value is high.

[G-Snarls]

Cubbies

 

Looked like a dynasty and a couple of bad moves, injuries and prospect trades, and they suck balls again in short order.

 

Fully dismantled 4.5 years later

 

It's so weird seeing Baez, Shwarber and Rizzo all playing elsewhere

[z3r0s]

Fully dismantled 4.5 years later

 

It's so weird seeing Baez, Shwarber and Rizzo all playing elsewhere

 

plus a little dude named Bryant.

[The Cats Ass]

I think we see the Cubs competing as soon again as this upcoming season, I think this past season was just a tiny blip. They won the division in 2020, and were tied for the division lead this past season on June 24th. They have a lot of payroll space to work with, and I expect a couple big FA signings. They could probably add something like 100M in payroll. They were smart to move all their expiring contracts, they picked up a load of prospects and young players to refill the cupboards.

[BigCecil]

The best direction to go, as boring as that might seem, is to follow the same path AA has done with the Braves. Just go for the best 1 year deals every winter. Atkins already did that last winter (aside from Springer), and it worked better than anyone could have dreamed of. Instead of falling in love with those 1 year deal players, just let them leave as free agents, and try to find the next Semien and Ray while continuing to build up the farm system. That's the safest "sustained contention" model, because if they add another big FA deal and/or trade more top prospects, then they run the risk of unintentionally building that short contention window much like the Cubs did. The Astros have done the opposite, where they let top FA's leave, and replaced them mostly internally. They did trade prospects, but it always seemed from a position of depth, rather than emptying the cupboard.

 

I would love to trade for Ramirez, and he would fit this lineup/roster like a glove, but whether it's the right move with long term contention in mind is debatable, depending on who they would have to give up. If there is a trade for a player coming off a down year that will cost much less to acquire (ex. Chapman), then that's likely a better avenue to take. Otherwise, just like last year, try to find the best short term deals in free agency.

 

Agree with everything here, and right now the catching situation is the Jays position of depth. I can easily see them dangling Kirk or Jansen as trade bait, running with the other guy as the main with (insert random backup here) until Moreno is ready. It's probably not at the point where they need to do something imminently, but if Moreno keeps going the way he is going... unless a position change happens with him, one of them will have to go.

 

I like this approach. Id be fine with mixing it up too and making a bid for Ramirez or Ketel Marte, but its all price dependent. If too high just use the model above that worked out so well for us with Matz, Ray and Simean in 21. Will lightening strike twice in the same spot? Maybe, but if not the consequences aren't as long term. We have Ryu and Springer on long term deals as aging assets...not much room for too many more.

[TheHurl]

It's funny how people are talking about the post 2016 Cubs as a failure...then talk about Jays 2015, 2016 as a success. Cubs didn't live up to dynasty expectations which were never realistic.

 

Long term free agent deals sell tickets...but they don't win you championships (very generalized statement and not 100% true but you get the point), yet every year fans complain about the lack of a big signing. George Springer can easily become similar to the deals which people are talking about for the Cubs. I really believe at maximum the Jays should look at 1 more long term deal free agent over the next 3 years. This off season is probably the time for it, and continuing to focus on reasonable extensions for the current lot.

 

As for a stocked farm, you can restock in a few short years (Seattle and Boston were 29th and 30th in 2018 and now firmly sit in the top 10 with Seattle at number 1), the key is to have some live arms in the high minors and a couple young (and potentially tradable) high ceiling bats throughout.

 

I don't know if this front office follows all my views, but I feel they have a good grip on what it takes to keep this team a 90 win team.

[Jimcanuck]

It's funny how people are talking about the post 2016 Cubs as a failure...then talk about Jays 2015, 2016 as a success. Cubs didn't live up to dynasty expectations which were never realistic.

 

Long term free agent deals sell tickets...but they don't win you championships (very generalized statement and not 100% true but you get the point), yet every year fans complain about the lack of a big signing. George Springer can easily become similar to the deals which people are talking about for the Cubs. I really believe at maximum the Jays should look at 1 more long term deal free agent over the next 3 years. This off season is probably the time for it, and continuing to focus on reasonable extensions for the current lot.

 

As for a stocked farm, you can restock in a few short years (Seattle and Boston were 29th and 30th in 2018 and now firmly sit in the top 10 with Seattle at number 1), the key is to have some live arms in the high minors and a couple young (and potentially tradable) high ceiling bats throughout.

 

I don't know if this front office follows all my views, but I feel they have a good grip on what it takes to keep this team a 90 win team.

 

No one mentioned the Cubs as a failure. The Cubs were simply brought up as an example of how a competitive window can be shortened by bad moves. In the Jays context, trading top controlled assets for 2 years of Ramirez, for example.

[Jimcanuck]

I think we see the Cubs competing as soon again as this upcoming season, I think this past season was just a tiny blip. They won the division in 2020, and were tied for the division lead this past season on June 24th. They have a lot of payroll space to work with, and I expect a couple big FA signings. They could probably add something like 100M in payroll. They were smart to move all their expiring contracts, they picked up a load of prospects and young players to refill the cupboards.

 

They look like a bottom feeder to me, even if they do in fact make a couple of big FA signings.

[Dick_Pole]

People talking about how the farm is thin after the top 3. Well yeah, when you just promote a bunch of guys over the last three years that tends to happen. Imagine if Kirk and Manoah spent the year in the farm. The team would have won 85ish games but everyone would be fapping over the depth of the farm. Perspective, people. The Jays are basically locked at most position players barring trade or injury for the next 3-5 years. Plenty of time to replenish the farm.

 

As for debating whether the Jays have a 2-3 year window or are perpetual contenders...EVERY competitive team has a 2-3 year window because you can't realistically look that much further ahead. This team has payroll flexibility and a ton of cheap, quality players. There is a LOT that can be done to accelerate, lengthen or completely f*** up that window of contention.

[CrackerJack]

I'd guess that the Jays window is 4 more years. Shapiro has 4 years left on his contract, and it's doubtful he'll be here longer with his pal Edward's messy situation at Rogers plus Mark's own ambition to possibly be baseball commissioner. Aligns nicely with Vladdy & Bo who can't be free agents until 2026. Prediction: If the Jays have not had playoff success going into the last couple of years of Shapiro's contract, then he'll do what he criticized AA of doing: Really going all in because he won't be around much longer anyway (especially if Alex is successful in getting a flag flying forever in Atlanta haha.)

[keggy]

It's funny how people are talking about the post 2016 Cubs as a failure...then talk about Jays 2015, 2016 as a success. Cubs didn't live up to dynasty expectations which were never realistic.

 

I agree with you on unrealistic expectations. Fans act like if you tank hard enough and never make a bad trade, you're guaranteed a formula to have a dynasty. True dynasties happen once every few decades (90s Yankees, 70s Athletics, Big Red Machine, etc.), and are based mostly on extreme luck, money, and competence--probably in that order.

 

Making moves to guarantee a good team every single year without sacrificing the future is an incredible balancing act. If the Cubs were any more conservative, they probably wouldn't have won a single World Series during their run. On the other hand, building a 90 win team every year is also a smart way to go, but then you run the risk of becoming the 2000s Athletics.

 

Hopefully Shapiro and Atkins are putting careful thought into balancing short and long term goals simultaneously. This offseason will give us a lot of clues into their thought process.

[Krylian]

Congrats, AA!

[Slade]

[Spanky99]

Congrats, AA!

 

First Canadian GM to win the WS.

[Virgil_Hiltz]

People talking about how the farm is thin after the top 3. Well yeah, when you just promote a bunch of guys over the last three years that tends to happen. Imagine if Kirk and Manoah spent the year in the farm. The team would have won 85ish games but everyone would be fapping over the depth of the farm. Perspective, people. The Jays are basically locked at most position players barring trade or injury for the next 3-5 years. Plenty of time to replenish the farm.

 

As for debating whether the Jays have a 2-3 year window or are perpetual contenders...EVERY competitive team has a 2-3 year window because you can't realistically look that much further ahead. This team has payroll flexibility and a ton of cheap, quality players. There is a LOT that can be done to accelerate, lengthen or completely f*** up that window of contention.

 

Hammer meet nail.....well said!!