Offseason Roster Thread

[intentional wok]

Donaldson #1 hottest Jay. Don't let the purveyors of bad taste convince you otherwise.

 

What a stallion.

[G-Snarls]

Everybody in baseball knew David Price was going to sign for more than 7/210. He knew, his agent knew, the team, (most) fans, the American media etc... David Price was never signing for less than 7/210. The team knew that, given their current context, they weren't interested in him at that rate, or likely anywhere close to it. And so they did what any group of busy people tends to do: they focused their time and energy on things that were productive rather than wasting them on a player that was never coming back.

 

This happens all the time. It happened when Pujols left St. Louis, and their fans were whining in a similar way to the way Toronto's fans are whining now. And then it became obvious that the team made the right decision, and the whining stopped.

 

Good post

 

Although we didn't get a Michael Wacha out of the deal

[reedjohnsonfan]

TIL "make him a s***** offer even though it's a guarantee he won't be re-signing here becuz IMUG!!!!!1!" Is a very valid point. Not just valid. Very valid.

 

lol you think that's the way negotiations work? You're hilarious if you think the way you posted.

[reedjohnsonfan]

If Shapiro came out and said "we want to bring him back", what exactly would have happened? Would fan reaction have been kinder to him? I'm not sure what purpose that would have served other than outright lying to the fans for no reason.

 

Price was not going to sign for less than $200m so your point about negotiating a reasonable price makes no sense. There was never a chance to sign him for a reasonable price. That was the whole point.

 

If Shapiro came out and said he's after Cespedes right now, and then Cespedes signs with another team, who's going to care that Shapiro expressed interest? It's a meaningless exercise. There are better ways to improve optics.

 

Once again I am baffled by the fan disregard for PR moves. The goal is to max profits and sell tickets, they need to at least try and act like they are trying to sign Price, and if not try and portray them as players for some of the bigger free agents. You may ask why, but all the big market teams (which Toronto should be, or at least trying to act like) shouldn't be disappointing to their fanbase the way Shapiro has been. The casual fans are already upset with the way he has approached things, make fun of them all you want for only coming out when the team is a contender but ticket sales rely on the Jays being a legitimate contender and threat for signing big names. Right now they seem like a medium market team trying to stay relevant with the Red Sox.

[Spanky99]

lol you think that's the way negotiations work? You're hilarious if you think the way you posted.

 

Stop.

[Boxcar]

lol you think that's the way negotiations work? You're hilarious if you think the way you posted.

 

Yeah I'm sure we'd have been able to talk him down from 6/200 and given him Estrada's contract. I'm dumb.

[glory]

Once again I am baffled by the fan disregard for PR moves. The goal is to max profits and sell tickets, they need to at least try and act like they are trying to sign Price, and if not try and portray them as players for some of the bigger free agents. You may ask why, but all the big market teams (which Toronto should be, or at least trying to act like) shouldn't be disappointing to their fanbase the way Shapiro has been. The casual fans are already upset with the way he has approached things, make fun of them all you want for only coming out when the team is a contender but ticket sales rely on the Jays being a legitimate contender and threat for signing big names. Right now they seem like a medium market team trying to stay relevant with the Red Sox.

 

Shapiro will handle Bautista and Encarnacion differently in terms of PR. In the case of those two, they are long time Blue Jays and realistic (in terms of years/dollars) to sign. Maybe not probable, but realistic. With Price, he was a two month rental that the Jays had no chance of signing given the type of deal everyone knew he was going to sign. If Shapiro said "we want to bring him back and plan to offer him a contract", only to see Price predictably sign elsewhere, what possible impact would it have had on attendance or interest?

 

The fans that are whining on social media will be there when the team makes the playoffs, or disappear when they don't. It's that simple. You don't cater to fans. You put a consistent winner on the field and fans will show up.

[BTS]

ITT: we learn that casual fan reedjohnsonfan is seriously butthurt that the mean man didn't bring back his fave player.

[BigCecil]

Once again I am baffled by the fan disregard for PR moves. The goal is to max profits and sell tickets, they need to at least try and act like they are trying to sign Price, and if not try and portray them as players for some of the bigger free agents. You may ask why, but all the big market teams (which Toronto should be, or at least trying to act like) shouldn't be disappointing to their fanbase the way Shapiro has been. The casual fans are already upset with the way he has approached things, make fun of them all you want for only coming out when the team is a contender but ticket sales rely on the Jays being a legitimate contender and threat for signing big names. Right now they seem like a medium market team trying to stay relevant with the Red Sox.

 

Sorry. Cant agree with this. A pyrrhic offer is just an insult to the fans and to the player. It does nothing for "PR". Fans who wanted Price back don't understand the market and they don't understand the napkin math we all do on the Jays payroll. Most fans, for example, don't connect a Price signing to Jose and Edwin becoming FAs this off season or how much more they will have to pay JD through arb....or that Martin's deal is back end loaded.

 

And they shouldn't have too. They are just casual fans and that's ok. 90% of the posters on this Board know more about the business of baseball than 90% of the Jays fans I'd guess. Most markets are the same with some notable exceptions.

 

Agree with Glory ^. If the Jays build a consistent truly competitive club that is in races and makes the playoffs on a regular basis the fans across the country will forget all about Price,Kawawhatever and AA complaints.

[BTS]

Sorry. Cant agree with this. A pyrrhic offer is just an insult to the fans and to the player. It does nothing for "PR". Fans who wanted Price back don't understand the market and they don't understand the napkin math we all do on the Jays payroll. Most fans, for example, don't connect a Price signing to Jose and Edwin becoming FAs this off season or how much more they will have to pay JD through arb....or that Martin's deal is back end loaded.

 

And they shouldn't have too. They are just casual fans and that's ok. 90% of the posters on this Board know more about the business of baseball than 90% of the Jays fans I'd guess. Most markets are the same with some notable exceptions.

 

Agree with Glory ^. If the Jays build a consistent truly competitive club that is in races and makes the playoffs on a regular basis the fans across the country will forget all about Price,Kawawhatever and AA complaints.

 

Can you imagine the fan backlash if Shapiro waxes poetic about his top priority being to keep Price, and then Price's agent says publicly that they never made a competitive offer? Shapiro would (rightly) be crucified by the Toronto media.

[flafson]

Yeah I'm sure we'd have been able to talk him down from 6/200 and given him Estrada's contract. I'm dumb.

 

Mets seem to be talking with Cespedes on a below market contract just because he really wants to play there.

So before anyone says "everyone knew" when it comes to Price, you just don't know until you give his agent a shout and see what type of discount (if at all) you will get from him.

Since the front office refused to try it we would never know.

[Grant77]

Mets seem to be talking with Cespedes on a below market contract just because he really wants to play there.

So before anyone says "everyone knew" when it comes to Price, you just don't know until you give his agent a shout and see what type of discount (if at all) you will get from him.

Since the front office refused to try it we would never know.

 

If Cespedes were offered 7/210 by another team, he sure as hell wouldn't be talking to the Mets.

[BTS]

If Cespedes were offered 7/210 by another team, he sure as hell wouldn't be talking to the Mets.

 

Yeah. He's not considering a discount because he loves New York. They're just still in the picture because his market hasn't been there yet.

[Boxcar]

Mets seem to be talking with Cespedes on a below market contract just because he really wants to play there.

So before anyone says "everyone knew" when it comes to Price, you just don't know until you give his agent a shout and see what type of discount (if at all) you will get from him.

Since the front office refused to try it we would never know.

 

Christ man, please get better at posting

[HERPDERP]

MrBaBy420 Rank 392

This guy should focus on conditioning and training for the upcoming season.

 

holy s*** fans are retarded.

 

Never read twitter or instagram comments.

 

If its non baseball related, and if the player is having fun, there's always that stupid idiot that says "you should focus on playing better or getting in the batting cage"

[BigCecil]

Mets seem to be talking with Cespedes on a below market contract just because he really wants to play there.

So before anyone says "everyone knew" when it comes to Price, you just don't know until you give his agent a shout and see what type of discount (if at all) you will get from him.

Since the front office refused to try it we would never know.

 

Sorry man.....that makes zero sense. Business doesn't work that way. "Hey, you like the popcorn in TOR...we smash the ball...and its a great scooter town so how about 5 years with a $20mm AAV cause that's all Rogers will give us to pay you?"

[Rusty_Savage]

The Red Sox were going to offer Price 30-40 million more then any other team. They basically said so. There was no way we were resigning him and everyone knew it. Shapiro did the right thing and moved on immediately.

[Rusty_Savage]

It's really a testament to how much he probably didn't want to go to the Sox, the fact they had to go that far above and beyond.

[Governator]

Who do you guys see as lead off to start the season? It's obviously not a hole, just wondering how the line up will be arranged without Revere or Travis. I was never in favour of Tulo leading off, I think I'd prefer to slide everyone up with JD leading off. If Pompey shows a solid OBP early on, slot him in.

[Brownie19]

Who do you guys see as lead off to start the season? It's obviously not a hole, just wondering how the line up will be arranged without Revere or Travis. I was never in favour of Tulo leading off, I think I'd prefer to slide everyone up with JD leading off. If Pompey shows a solid OBP early on, slot him in.

 

I'd just bat Pompey 9th, JD 1st and then I'd start the game off by telling myself that JD is going to be coming up with nobody out 100% of the time, whereas with anyone else up, 67.5% of the time there's already 1 out!

[KingKat]

Who do you guys see as lead off to start the season? It's obviously not a hole, just wondering how the line up will be arranged without Revere or Travis. I was never in favour of Tulo leading off, I think I'd prefer to slide everyone up with JD leading off. If Pompey shows a solid OBP early on, slot him in.

 

I think they'll go back to Tulo. I don't have a problem with it.

[reedjohnsonfan]

ITT: we learn that casual fan reedjohnsonfan is seriously butthurt that the mean man didn't bring back his fave player.

 

No... I'm saying that the Jays are not protecting their image very well. In my opinion.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Sorry. Cant agree with this. A pyrrhic offer is just an insult to the fans and to the player. It does nothing for "PR". Fans who wanted Price back don't understand the market and they don't understand the napkin math we all do on the Jays payroll. Most fans, for example, don't connect a Price signing to Jose and Edwin becoming FAs this off season or how much more they will have to pay JD through arb....or that Martin's deal is back end loaded.

 

And they shouldn't have too. They are just casual fans and that's ok. 90% of the posters on this Board know more about the business of baseball than 90% of the Jays fans I'd guess. Most markets are the same with some notable exceptions.

 

Agree with Glory ^. If the Jays build a consistent truly competitive club that is in races and makes the playoffs on a regular basis the fans across the country will forget all about Price,Kawawhatever and AA complaints.

 

Firstly, thanks for an honest and non arrogant response. These are hard to come by on this forum some days.

 

I don't think they should give insulting offers, like they did with Delgado after 2004. I believe team could have done a better job by protecting their image this offseason. They just had their best year in over 2 decades, fans expect them to try and take that next step, especially considering the short-ish term nature of their roster. Shapiro mentioned building a sustainable winner, which is great and all but the team is already very close... it feels like they might be sacrificing a little bit in the short term by not making that one last aggressive move because they are afraid of what might happen to the team in a few years. Their roster is so strong that their marginal wins are more valuable than they are for more teams. Their willingness to pay for an extra win should be very high right now, but it doesn't quite feel like it. The media and fans are always going to want more, but from what I've gathered Shapiro hasn't been well received so far... this is just my perception from talking to people out in the real world (i.e. away from fangraphs).

 

I think they will have a very good team, but the Red Sox are a bit better IMO (and betting odds as well as projections reflect this). Even if they think they can build a sustainable winner, the Yankees and Red Sox will continue to have 2 of the largest payrolls so I don't think chances like this will continue to come around often. I am not drinking the Kool-Aid and believing that they will contend year in, year out anytime soon.

[CHRIS]

Who do you guys see as lead off to start the season? It's obviously not a hole, just wondering how the line up will be arranged without Revere or Travis. I was never in favour of Tulo leading off, I think I'd prefer to slide everyone up with JD leading off. If Pompey shows a solid OBP early on, slot him in.

 

I would be fine with either putting Tulo back into the leadoff spot, or bump everyone up a spot and put Tulo at cleanup.

 

A guy at work asked if I thought they should put Pillar at leadoff because of his speed. I just got up and left the room.

[G-Snarls]

Who do you guys see as lead off to start the season? It's obviously not a hole, just wondering how the line up will be arranged without Revere or Travis. I was never in favour of Tulo leading off, I think I'd prefer to slide everyone up with JD leading off. If Pompey shows a solid OBP early on, slot him in.

 

Travis (who will miss April of course) or Pompey might earn it they prove a good ability to get on base over the first half of the season

 

But to start the year I'd go Tulo. Career .369 OBP, though he hasn't been a SB threat in 5 years. I like JB/JD/EE 2,3,4 too much to move one up.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Shapiro will handle Bautista and Encarnacion differently in terms of PR. In the case of those two, they are long time Blue Jays and realistic (in terms of years/dollars) to sign. Maybe not probable, but realistic. With Price, he was a two month rental that the Jays had no chance of signing given the type of deal everyone knew he was going to sign. If Shapiro said "we want to bring him back and plan to offer him a contract", only to see Price predictably sign elsewhere, what possible impact would it have had on attendance or interest?

 

The fans that are whining on social media will be there when the team makes the playoffs, or disappear when they don't. It's that simple. You don't cater to fans. You put a consistent winner on the field and fans will show up.

 

I'd like to see how the organization projects their revenues because for reasons I'd rather not write an essay about on this board I believe they do a terrible job with their marketing and also projections as a whole. The PR stuff I am confused by has a small but not insignificant impact on their profits and I agree at the end of the day winning is the biggest factor for ticket sales, but not the only important one.

[Sammy225]

I would be fine with either putting Tulo back into the leadoff spot, or bump everyone up a spot and put Tulo at cleanup.

 

A guy at work asked if I thought they should put Pillar at leadoff because of his speed. I just got up and left the room.

 

Speed does not matter when you got JD Bau and EE hitting behind them because your not going to want them to get thrown out anyway. I say put Russell up there and see if he can get that OBP up to around .350 or so.

 

Martin

JD

Bau

EE

Tulo

 

Fill in the rest from here because that is electric lol

[G-Snarls]

Such a right-heavy top of the lineup, but they can all hit LHP and RHP well so it doesn't really matter

[reedjohnsonfan]

Yeah I'm sure we'd have been able to talk him down from 6/200 and given him Estrada's contract. I'm dumb.

 

You should take a look at BigCecil's posts. Unless you're content posting ineffectual things weakly related to what people post, trying to insult them. In that case have at it.

[G-Snarls]

It's really a testament to how much he probably didn't want to go to the Sox, the fact they had to go that far above and beyond.

 

Maybe. Hard to say.

 

How much does Edwin not want to go the Red Sox and how much would they overpay to sign him to replace Papi?