Davidi: Jays looking at "in house options"

[wilko]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Y_ODcECzxGQ/T4sMKffGa8I/AAAAAAAAA88/LnQ8Dvynqbg/s1600/michael-scott-no.gif

[Dylan]

So all in lasted for one fail miserable season. Attendance went up so should payroll. Time to put up or shut up. No way you can sell this team to the fans.

 

Toronto fans are like a herd of lost cattle that are willing to head towards any home team that will be good. Raptors, Jays, Leafs, TFC have all been lost causes. I think it's time we sit down and invent a new sport. The odds would be greater than the CFL or NLL ever becoming big in this city.

[Grant77]

I'm not going to be upset if we don't get Samardzija, sign Tanaka, or make any other big moves. However, if we waste our relief surplus and don't make some reasonable additions to fill holes at 2B, LF and SP then I'm going to be very disappointed. If we happen to get a healthy Morrow and Hutchison and contend, we'll regret not doing everything possible to make this team good in the offseason.

[Frenchsoup]

i actually really like what we've done so far this off season upgrading our catching. I still think we should go and get Tanaka he would be worth every cent on the field and off the field. I also believe things will start to open up a bit on the trade market once teams get a little desperate, i can see our bullpen pieces gaining a lot of value for a team that thinks there close but need that shutdown reliever.

[Abomination]

i actually really like what we've done so far this off season upgrading our catching. I still think we should go and get Tanaka he would be worth every cent on the field and off the field. I also believe things will start to open up a bit on the trade market once teams get a little desperate, i can see our bullpen pieces gaining a lot of value for a team that thinks there close but need that shutdown reliever.

 

Especially with the prices relievers are getting on the open market right now. Someone will need a good one to finish off their pen and be near their payroll ceiling.

[Terminator]

I really hope the media grills him on this if he does indeed stand pat. Letting Johnson walk and reinvesting the money elsewhere is a defensible course of action. Letting Johnson walk, sitting on the payroll space, and complaining that that the money was there but no free agents wanted to sign here is an egregious miscalculation. Johnson at 1/15 may be risky, but there's 3-4 win upside there as well as draft pick compensation.

 

Nice post. I was all for letting Johnson walk but this was under the assumption that the savings would be reinvested in the team.

[fireballW]

As long as AA is fired when they miss the playoffs this isn't a worst-case scenario.

 

If AA uses the young arms/prospects/in-house it is an "oh God" moment.

 

If AA trades those players for more elite pieces, people whine.

 

If AA doesn't sign players who, likely, have no interest signing in Toronto, he deserves to be fired.

 

Conclusion: You guys are idiots.

 

With all the complaints from last year, you guys should be excited for this option. We all know how much you will whine about the alternative. But yeah, keep harping on signing FA that probably have no interest in coming here.

[JFD]

I think I'd want AA around if this team crashed, burned and went into another rebuild lol. Fire him when it's time to contend again.

 

didn't this team already crash and burn?

 

pretty sure that happened last year.

[Key22]

If AA uses the young arms/prospects/in-house it is an "oh God" moment.

 

If AA trades those players for more elite pieces, people whine.

 

If AA doesn't sign players who, likely, have no interest signing in Toronto, he deserves to be fired.

 

Conclusion: You guys are idiots.

 

With all the complaints from last year, you guys should be excited for this option. We all know how much you will whine about the alternative. But yeah, keep harping on signing FA that probably have no interest in coming here.

 

LOL - that's exactly the problem - in the 2011 off-season AA signed Cordero and traded for Santos - everyone complained that AA did nothing - although he tried to sign Free Agents none of them wanted to come here - even though AA offered more money in all likely-hood. Jay's stunk.

 

2012 off season he tried to sign Peavy but realized he was getting used. No way were free agents coming here. So makes a trade to the fans calling for his head for not "doing anything" Gave up a bunch pf pathetic no hopers for Happ and everyone in the Marlins deal - the big 5 something OPS for Hecchavarria is so hurting us now.

 

He miscalculated on health - again 3/5 of the rotation goes down to injury (and being hit in the head) and the starting shortstop goes down - ugly.

 

So now it's 2013 off season and half the people want him to sign free agents (who don't want to come here and use Toronto as leverage in negotiations with other teams). But they demand he does SOMETHING because we have to win in 2014. Oh but don;t sign anyone expensive but make sure you get an Ace - don't trade any of our top 30 prospects but land us Ace pitchers, a stud second baseman and the next Johny Bench behind the plate. But I repeat you can't trade any prospects.

 

Trade Jansen for a a Cy Young winner with 6 controllable years! AA you're a bum.

 

AA should just let it ride. The Free agents are not coming here - and the trade prices are far too high.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Key22

[Chappy]

Nice post. I was all for letting Johnson walk but this was under the assumption that the savings would be reinvested in the team.

 

Agreed. If AA doesn't make the necessary moves then that could end up being another move that costs this team. This is so frustrating.

[GD]

wah wah wah

 

"The Following User Says Thank You to Reyesdaroof For This Useful Post:

Cooler Heads Prevail (Today)"

 

Oh for f***

[Boxcar]

It's funny, he didn't seem concerned about getting value last year

[Frenchsoup]

It's funny, he didn't seem concerned about getting value last year

 

 

Yeah he's all over the place. I think he has his favorite players he obsesses about and when he has the chance to get them he overpays. Now he has to prime candidates to sell high on in Rasmus and Lind but he will probably overvalue them when they both have serious flaws in there games.

[Laika]

And who says Danny Salarzar doesn't end up in that group as well?

 

Nobody?

 

I know what point you're trying to make but honestly, it's pretty thin. It's entirely possible to weigh the case specific likely outcomes and value projections without being some type of absolutist that would always take the 'guaranteed" production.

 

And to this point, the line of conversation here was simply that Dickey in 2014 is a better production bet than Guasman. I think Price is a better production bet than Salazar next year as well.

 

So.... yeah.

[Boxcar]

Doesn't even necessarily have to be a major upgrade for the trade to be worth it.

 

 

 

One of my points was "upgrade Moises Sierra". You don't exactly need a baseball Costco to find a selection of better RHB platoon guys with a bit of defensive utility.

 

Defend AA AT ALL COSTS

[Angrioter]

We have a full wardrobe of Gucci's shoes (Santos, Janssen, Delabar, Wagner, McGowan, Rogers long-R, Cecil, Luop) but we haven't good shirts to complement (2B, LF, OF and IF depth).

 

It's not about money. This team isn't well structured; pieces like: Hanigan, Ruggiano, Gentry, Baker, Ellis, Ackley, Jonathan Herrera aren't or were very expensive.

The plethora of relievers has great value; guys like Colletti, Dombrowski, Jack Z, Towers would kill to have one of our bullpen arms.

 

1-Starting pitching <----------------Mediocre

2-Position players (Defensive + Offensive) <---------------- Mediocre

3-Bullpen <-------------- Elite

[Howard Roark]

Don't go out on a f***ing limb or anything?

 

Fret not for I shan't. You may rest easy.

[jayswin11]

He could do nothing until late January or February and maybe there will be another Kyle Lohse out there still waiting for a deal.

[TheEndIsNigh]

BAd time to be a jays fan.

[John_Havok]

Oh boy

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/anthopoulos-may-be-serious-about-jays-in-house-options/

 

This, unfortunately, became very obvious about the same time those "Pittsburgh called Toronto about Lind and Alex asked for Neil Walker - at which point Huntington fell over laughing, called AA a troll and hung up."

 

That's not say that AA shouldn't be trying to get the maximum back for any player, when you value your own platoon DH as worth something equal to a 2.5-3 WAR 2b, you're going to be stuck with your "in-house" options every time.

[saskjayfan]

We have a full wardrobe of Gucci's shoes (Santos, Janssen, Delabar, Wagner, McGowan, Rogers long-R, Cecil, Luop) but we haven't good shirts to complement (2B, LF, OF and IF depth).

 

It's not about money. This team isn't well structured; pieces like: Hanigan, Ruggiano, Gentry, Baker, Ellis, Ackley, Jonathan Herrera aren't or were very expensive.

The plethora of relievers has great value; guys like Colletti, Dombrowski, Jack Z, Towers would kill to have one of our bullpen arms.

 

1-Starting pitching <----------------Mediocre

2-Position players (Defensive + Offensive) <---------------- Mediocre

3-Bullpen <-------------- Elite

 

You don't know how cheap Gentry is or any other player...you're just assuming you know. You don't know how a healthy Melky Cabrera will do....there weren't exactly a ton of LF options out there. Ellis will have a 1.5 WAR next year....Goins will provide the same WAR he does it with defense which is an area that is lacking...Gose as a starter makes me cringe...but as OF depth...he has the ability to steal bases and play defense...what more do you want out of your outfield depth.

 

It all comes down to pitching which is a crapshoot...We could be talking about a Drabek or a Hutch being the saviour at the end of the season...this team needs a couple upside surprises...but they have a lot of arms with talent....hutch, stroman, drabek, McGowan even romero...they need one or two of these guys to find themselves as pitchers...it's the mental side an health that are the issues...not the stuff. I would prefer they sign a starter, but if they don't I'm not going to say at day 1 that they have no shot.

[Angrioter]

You don't know how cheap Gentry is or any other player...you're just assuming you know. You don't know how a healthy Melky Cabrera will do....there weren't exactly a ton of LF options out there. Ellis will have a 1.5 WAR next year....Goins will provide the same WAR he does it with defense which is an area that is lacking...Gose as a starter makes me cringe...but as OF depth...he has the ability to steal bases and play defense...what more do you want out of your outfield depth.

 

It all comes down to pitching which is a crapshoot...We could be talking about a Drabek or a Hutch being the saviour at the end of the season...this team needs a couple upside surprises...but they have a lot of arms with talent....hutch, stroman, drabek, McGowan even romero...they need one or two of these guys to find themselves as pitchers...it's the mental side an health that are the issues...not the stuff. I would prefer they sign a starter, but if they don't I'm not going to say at day 1 that they have no shot.

 

Which one of them will guarantee you ~150 quality innings?

 

You're asking that all the points get together in the same place.

[saskjayfan]

Which one of them will guarantee you ~150 quality innings?

 

none of them....don't you gamble? I like to roll the dice. John Lackey did not guarantee 150 quality innings going into 2013....in fact there were long odds against it...but he put up 189 quality innings....dreams can come true...lol

[Angrioter]

none of them....don't you gamble? I like to roll the dice. John Lackey did not guarantee 150 quality innings going into 2013....in fact there were long odds against it...but he put up 189 quality innings....dreams can come true...lol

 

John Lackey was an old horse, was successful in the past.

[JugglingPitches]

Even if AA does nothing, this team will still be better than last year. They SHOULD be showing up to camp with something to prove. Dickey won't have as bad a year as last year, JPA and his infinite strikeouts and zero walks are gone for at least an adequate MLB catcher which should create a ripple effect through the pitching staff. Hutch is back, that's huge. Bonifacio is gone and replaced by an A+ defensive 2B. Basically the same team we were so excited about last off season, only now maybe they won't feel so entitled.

 

That said, the Yankees are vastly improved, the Sox are the champs, the Rays are still the Rays. It would have been nice to add SOMEONE substantial to the lineup.

[saskjayfan]

John Lackey was an old horse, was successful in the past.

 

romero and morrow have both had success.....I think the good doctor was probably the best acquisition the jays could have made. Roy working as a consultant passing on some knowledge could be very good for a lot of pitchers who have talent but are missing something. Halladay said in his post retirement news conferences that it was the mental side more than the adjustments mechanically he made that transformed him as a pitcher. When I look at Drabek, he has good velocity, good movement on his pitches....he can't command his stuff. Last year however, he had 6 walks in 43 innings in the minors..this is something he's never done before. You add the mental mentor that Roy Halladay could be and who knows. Almost everyone has written Drabek off....I think abomination was one poster who said Drabek might be a surprise.

 

I'm not willing to stick my neck out for any one guy...but we have 4 or 5 guys that could surprise...we need 2 to surprise...we have depth with guys like Happ and Rogers....I'm excited for the season...most are dreading it..lol

[jays4life19]

romero and morrow have both had success.....I think the good doctor was probably the best acquisition the jays could have made. Roy working as a consultant passing on some knowledge could be very good for a lot of pitchers who have talent but are missing something. Halladay said in his post retirement news conferences that it was the mental side more than the adjustments mechanically he made that transformed him as a pitcher. When I look at Drabek, he has good velocity, good movement on his pitches....he can't command his stuff. Last year however, he had 6 walks in 43 innings in the minors..this is something he's never done before. You add the mental mentor that Roy Halladay could be and who knows. Almost everyone has written Drabek off....I think abomination was one poster who said Drabek might be a surprise.

 

I'm not willing to stick my neck out for any one guy...but we have 4 or 5 guys that could surprise...we need 2 to surprise...we have depth with guys like Happ and Rogers....I'm excited for the season...most are dreading it..lol

 

If we're not going to address the pitching and rely on in house options we better upgrade at second base and hope Navarro season last year wasn't a fluke.

[LunchBox]

Middle Infield Depth

 

Reyes

Goins

Izturis

Jon Diaz

Jared Goedert

Steve Tolleson

Ryan Schimpf

Jon Berti

 

Basically, if Reyes gets injured we are f***ed.

 

How it should be

Reyes

(Viable 2B)

Izturis

Goins

Jon Diaz

Jared Goedert

Steve Tolleson

Ryan Schimpf

Jon Berti

 

Pleeeease

 

That's a good point, there's actually no potential production from the entire middle IF when Reyes inevitably gets hurt. Danny Epsinosa is not only a logical target but almost a must have, sadly he probably could have been had for a bullpen piece prior to the Blevins acquisition. Hell, he probably could have been had for OF depth before McLouth. Time to bite the bullet and pay the current asking price.

[jaysfan2014]

Offseason's not over yet.

 

-Sox may be the champs, but they did lose Jacoby Ellsbury and Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and we don't know what Bogaerts and Bradley will bring, and have not decided on Drew. But they are still probably the best team in the AL East at the moment if they stay healthy. 90-95 wins as it stands.

-Rays are the same, but it's still dependent on whether David Price gets dealt or not. Rays are demanding a lot for him, and nobody's biting. Still an 85-90 win team as long as Longoria stays healthy.

-Yankees aren't any better. They lost Cano, Granderson, Pettite and Rivera and are expecting health and rebounds from Tex (who has been declining since he came to NY) and continued performance from Beltran, Ellsbury and McCann to offset the losses. They need another pitcher in that lineup, but the options aren't impressive, and Tanaka seems destined to stay in Japan. And don't expect a trade, as the Yanks lack any assets on their farm outside of Gary Sanchez. As it stands, without any major upgrades, that Yankees team is a 80 to 85-win team at best, with high risk of being under that.

-Orioles are worse. They need a bat (Markakis is in decline), but ownership won't spend the money. They may actually be worse than the Jays right now, even with Gausman, especially if they can't hit enough outside of Davis and Jones, and possibly Hardy. There's no guarantee Machado will be healthy by Opening Day. And that bench.. yuck! 80-85 wins, but that rotation needs upgrades in order to contend.

-Jays can't be any worse than 2013--but we could use another pitcher and better defense, even if it means Goins at 2B. Getting rid of JPA helps.

 

Please note that things can change between now and spring training. We'll see what happens.

[jays4life19]

That's a good point, there's actually no potential production from the entire middle IF when Reyes inevitably gets hurt. Danny Epsinosa is not only a logical target but almost a must have, sadly he probably could have been had for a bullpen piece prior to the Blevins acquisition. Hell, he probably could have been had for OF depth before McLouth. Time to bite the bullet and pay the current asking price.

 

I'm not a big fan of Epsinosa. He was JPA bad with the bat last season. I get on the outside he would look like a great buy low. Problem is Washington isn't viewing him like that and are simply not going to give him away unless they get something useful back.