Gausman Traded to Cubs

[Brownie19]

Hey guys - we really should just blindly trust Atkins - he knows what he's doing.  We essentially won the World Series last year.  Why are we questioning this Blue Jay legend?

🤣

I do like that we got a CFer.  He may not be anything, but we are very short on CF talent in the upper minors.  Strong side platoon CFer would be incredible. 4th OFer who's cheap and under control for 6 years would be fine - but there is clearly a decent probability he's neither.  Blah.

I also like the plan to cut salary to avoid the 10 pick penalty.

[John_Havok]

35 minutes ago, Terminator said:

We won’t even be able to get a Swiss Chalet gift card for Daulton Varsho at this rate 

This makes sense since he throws like a quarter-chicken

[Eat My Shatkins]

2 hours ago, sliderguy35 said:

absolutely hate this return

2 slap hitters that are fringe up the middle defenders.

just take the compensation pick from the QO if this is all youre gonna get

It's also doing Gausman a solid. The return was never going to be very good, but give Gaus another shot at pitching in the playoffs and maybe winning a WS, rather than holding onto him and letting him rot here with the rest of them.

[ComeTogether]

 

 

[Orgfiller]

37 minutes ago, Terminator said:

 

If we’re saying Bateman has 40 power that actually seems not horrible lol. I doubt it, but if he’s really a 55 hit, 40 power, 60 run, 55 fielding with a 55 arm you can squint and see a real player there. Realistically it’s probably more like 30 power with a half grade down on defense, which is a lot less sexy.

[Spanky__99]

2 hours ago, hanton said:

that's f'n wild, that we'd hand CF to Bateman - he's #34 in the Jays system

That ranking system is preseason, FG doesn't upgrade team ranks in season, just the top 100

 

[Spanky__99]

1 hour ago, Omar said:

This org has a penchant for AAAA players.  

Looks like they're going to get snake oil for Varsho if this is any indication. 

What happened to the "sellers market" talk?

Effing abysmal!🫩

 

Oh, and we play the Cubs soon. Get ready for Gasmans splitter to mystify our whole lineup. The timing lines up perfectly for him to start against us.

I should've post this in here as it's more Blue Jay centric.

I read an article about a month ago by Rosenthal or Passan? That most owners spoke with their GM's about the real threat of no baseball next season... and it's painfully obvious most are listening, there's not as much leverage as originally thought for sellers coming in to this deadline, the market has cratered, it probably would've been better to just stand pat or buy and go for it. 

In saying that, Gausman's gone now, so the Jays best sell everything they can with expiring contracts save for Bieber and tank so hard we fall in the bottom six teams for draft protection, we're currently ranked as the 7th worst team, tank you f*ckers, tank hard. And reboot in the winter. *sighs*

[metafour]

Arbitrary most recent ~30 day sample for Bateman in AAA:

.364/.438/.545 for a 152 wRC+

10.7% BB rate, 16.1% K rate, .182 ISO

He is running a .430 BABIP so its obviously a hot-streak, but he is at least turning up his performance with some increased power.

He should get an MLB look in CF this season if they dump Varsho.

 

[Slade]

It's not like we gave up a ton for our rentals last year. 

We can't deny that the front office has found guys who turn into decent contributers even if the scouting reports don't sound favourable. I hope this is one of those situations.

This move sounds like we are definitely going to be moving off Varsho which I am happy about. 

[Olerud363.354]

3 hours ago, Spanky__99 said:

That ranking system is preseason, FG doesn't upgrade team ranks in season, just the top 100

A lot of the rankings and write-ups were pre-reason, when he was coming off of a .307 slugging percentage season.  

His numbers this year, at aaa, translate to 36 doubles 4 triples 6 homers 40 sb 120 walks over a full season. 

 

[Bob_Gratton]

7 hours ago, Laika said:

Yes but Gausman seems to actually be considering retiring, and if he doesn't he's a sign back candidate anyway. 

Return is horrible unless one of these guys is a surprisingly good defender yuck 

Let's say Atkins is able to trade Varsho, Bieber and Hoffman tomorrow for prospects, do this mean for 2027 ,Jays will be under the luxury taxes, so they won't lose 10 rank in their first pick selection? And between the below average prospects without power they get, international money or make a qualifying offer to Gausman and Varsho, what is best? I will have prefered lot of international money, so they can sign one of the best international prospect available.

[Olerud363.354]

5 hours ago, metafour said:

Arbitrary most recent ~30 day sample for Bateman in AAA:

.364/.438/.545 for a 152 wRC+

10.7% BB rate, 16.1% K rate, .182 ISO

Pretty common for players of all stripes to lose batting average and gain power as they progress.  What gaining power means for guys who have 0 homeruns in full seasons I'm not entirely sure.   If you start at 0 homeruns and increase by 5x you are still at zero.  If you increase doubles by 2x and homeruns by 5x + 5 you are getting somewhere.  

Both Bateman and Southisene have raised their slugging percentages 100 points from last year.  Admittedly they were starting at .300 and .280 or so.  lol.  But at least trendiing in the right direction.  

 

[Olerud363.354]

52 minutes ago, Bob_Gratton said:

Let's say Atkins is able to trade Varsho, Bieber and Hoffman tomorrow for prospects, do this mean for 2027 ,Jays will be under the luxury taxes, so they won't lose 10 rank in their first pick selection? And between the below average prospects without power they get, international money or make a qualifying offer to Gausman and Varsho, what is best? I will have prefered lot of international money, so they can sign one of the best international prospect available.

Not entirely sure, but good question.  If they can get the payroll down to a certain level, they potentially gain 10 spots in draft, get a bigger draft and international pool.

Gausman I believe can't get qualifying offer, Varsho might just take it, Bieber eligible for one too I think, and also might take it.   So hard to see them getting picks for any of those guys.   If picks and international money is what you want trading them best.  If you potentially want Varsho and Bieber for a run next year and would pay them 20 million each keeping them might be best. 

[Olerud363.354]

Ernie Clement minor league stats - https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=clemen000ern

In 2019 at age 23 he had a .331 slugging. 

Saying someone will be the next Ernie Clement is like saying they'll be the next Jose Bautista, but it is useful as to ceilings for these types of players.  Developing power for these guys, if they do is probably something like the Ernie Clement path and with walks and speed that's a fun player.  

That's not the likely outcome of course, but this board acts like there's never been a guy who went from 0 power, to playable power in the history of baseball.   

[Bob_Gratton]

8 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Not entirely sure, but good question.  If they can get the payroll down to a certain level, they potentially gain 10 spots in draft, get a bigger draft and international pool.

Gausman I believe can't get qualifying offer, Varsho might just take it, Bieber eligible for one too I think, and also might take it.   So hard to see them getting picks for any of those guys.   If picks and international money is what you want trading them best.  If you potentially want Varsho and Bieber for a run next year and would pay them 20 million each keeping them might be best. 

Atkins will probably try sign Varsho, because he traded Gabriel Moreno for him, but to give a qualifying offer to Bieber seem to be a big mistake, he's often injured and no sure a team will want pay 16 millions for him. I don't mind if we keep Varsho, as long salary will be max 4/80millions. The problem is that if the goal is to win a WS next year or in 2028, the roster need to be strongly improved. We don't have reliable OF in the starting lineup, except maybe Varsho if he stay.  Guerrero, Okamoto, Clement, Kirk are ok in the IF, but Gimenez need to be replaced by a better player. Santander can't be a reliable solution for DH, he's made of glass, didn't played for 2 years and always injured. Cease, Yesevage, Ponce, still lack #2 and #3 SP, and if we trade Hoffman, will need a good reliever and a good left handed, coz Macko, Little are no the solution. So, unless Atkins think he can fix all the holes with free agency and empty the farm for guys still on utc, which will be a bad move, better to do a reset and rebuild, keeping our best prospects.

[John_Havok]

54 minutes ago, Bob_Gratton said:

Atkins will probably try sign Varsho, because he traded Gabriel Moreno for him, but to give a qualifying offer to Bieber seem to be a big mistake, he's often injured and no sure a team will want pay 16 millions for him. I don't mind if we keep Varsho, as long salary will be max 4/80millions. The problem is that if the goal is to win a WS next year or in 2028, the roster need to be strongly improved. We don't have reliable OF in the starting lineup, except maybe Varsho if he stay.  Guerrero, Okamoto, Clement, Kirk are ok in the IF, but Gimenez need to be replaced by a better player. Santander can't be a reliable solution for DH, he's made of glass, didn't played for 2 years and always injured. Cease, Yesevage, Ponce, still lack #2 and #3 SP, and if we trade Hoffman, will need a good reliever and a good left handed, coz Macko, Little are no the solution. So, unless Atkins think he can fix all the holes with free agency and empty the farm for guys still on utc, which will be a bad move, better to do a reset and rebuild, keeping our best prospects.

Varsho isnt a 20 million AAV value if he can't hit for power. The defense will slide over the next 4 years given his injury history (most likely) and could fall into average territory sooner rather than later especially given the arm issues. 

[Forever92]

10 hours ago, BTS said:

 

Taillon trade tied to this no doubt. 

Gausman was great signing for Jays. But you could tell he was starting to wane. 

[Terminator]

Trying to talk myself into liking this deal more.

• Bateman
  • The true prize of this trade. I don't care what the prospect rags say, he's better than Southisene.
  • I think his ceiling is a Nathan Lukes type of player, only with better CF defense and baserunning. And that would be a pretty damn good player.
• Southisene
  • I'm not high on this guy at all but after trading Nimmala we've got the room for another SS prospect and maybe he can turn into a good bench player for us. He signed for a million bucks out of high school so he does have a little bit of pedigree. 

[Laika]

South is 5'7" so God wasn't even high on him 

[max silver]

11 hours ago, metafour said:

Arbitrary most recent ~30 day sample for Bateman in AAA:

.364/.438/.545 for a 152 wRC+

10.7% BB rate, 16.1% K rate, .182 ISO

He is running a .430 BABIP so its obviously a hot-streak, but he is at least turning up his performance with some increased power.

He should get an MLB look in CF this season if they dump Varsho.

 

This sounds quite a bit like an outfield version of Kasevich. 

[Omar]

Once Varsho is moved (catharsis), there is a chance we see Bateman with the big club before seasons end.

[Pendleton]

4 minutes ago, Omar said:

Once Varsho is moved (catharsis), there is a chance we see Bateman with the big club before seasons end.

 

 

[keggy]

27 minutes ago, Pendleton said:

 

 

Is there a consensus on Bateman's range? Being able to handle CF versus accruing value at CF changes his valuation a lot.

[max silver]

3 minutes ago, keggy said:

Is there a consensus on Bateman's range? Being able to handle CF versus accruing value at CF changes his valuation a lot.

Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 30 | Run: 70 | Arm: 55 | Field: 65 | Overall: 40

Bateman played with Cubs manager Craig Counsell's son Brady at Minnesota, where he developed into one of the best contact hitters, fastest runners and top defenders in the 2023 college crop. But his utter lack of power affected his Draft stock, even after he batted .500 during a two-week stint in the Cape Cod League, and he dropped to Chicago in the eighth round. He overcame surgery on his right hamate in February to hit .261/.376/.307 at Double-A, ranking third in walk rate (15 percent) and sixth in on-base percentage. He was at Triple-A Iowa when the Cubs traded him to the Blue Jays as part of the return for Kevin Gausman.

A left-handed hitter, Bateman rarely strays from the strike zone, rarely hits balls with authority and rarely lifts them in the air. He lacks strength and understands his limitations, so he focuses on reaching base by drilling grounders through holes in the defense and working walks. His approach comes at the expense of any power, as of the time of the trade, he's a career .342 slugger with six homers in 315 pro games.

Bateman's game is built around his plus-plus speed, which he uses to beat out hits, steal bases and chase down balls from gap to gap in center field. A two-way player until he had elbow surgery following his freshman year with the Gophers, he has solid arm strength and has notched 23 assists in 278 starts in center. He has drawn comparisons to Orioles 2023 first-rounder Enrique Bradfield Jr. and Myles Straw.

[ComeTogether]

 

 

 

[glory]