Blue Jays (Corbin) vs Rays (McClanahan): 5/6/26, 1:10pm

[Olerud363.354]

Random chance you'd expect 20% of the time in a 5 game division to be ahead game 40.

In 33 years they've been ahead once... by 1 game. 

Never had an mind blowing exciting start in the Wild Card era, and almost always dissapointing.

Many over-before-it-began years, even when expect to contend.  Amazing their attendance has been as good as it has been without any hot starts extending to mid Spring

 

[Jonn]

That was a pretty abysmal series. Team needs Barger and Kirk back so bad.

[RA Whiffleball]

1 hour ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Random chance you'd expect 20% of the time in a 5 game division to be ahead game 40.

In 33 years they've been ahead once... by 1 game. 

Never had an mind blowing exciting start in the Wild Card era, and almost always dissapointing.

Many over-before-it-began years, even when expect to contend.  Amazing their attendance has been as good as it has been without any hot starts extending to mid Spring

 

I would say from 1994-2012 we were not competitive under Interbrew SA and the Ted Rogers version of Rogers, so the slow starts in those seasons are irrelevant. Neither ownership^gave a flying about the ball club.

Yes, we did sign Roger Clemens, but that was just to try to put more bums in seats.

In 2013-14, Rogers finally pulled their finger out, but you can't just flick a switch and expect to be competitive.

Since 2015, the club has been heading in the right direction, but still lacks that baseball heritage, that winning culture, that je ne sais quoi that clubs like the Yanks, Cards, Red Sox, and Dodgers all have. Last season was a massive step, and I believe that Ed Rogers is in it to win it, but we are still not quite there. 

 

 

[JaysFan99]

1 hour ago, RA Whiffleball said:

I would say from 1994-2012 we were not competitive under Interbrew SA and the Ted Rogers version of Rogers, so the slow starts in those seasons are irrelevant. Neither ownership^gave a flying about the ball club.

Yes, we did sign Roger Clemens, but that was just to try to put more bums in seats.

In 2013-14, Rogers finally pulled their finger out, but you can't just flick a switch and expect to be competitive.

Since 2015, the club has been heading in the right direction, but still lacks that baseball heritage, that winning culture, that je ne sais quoi that clubs like the Yanks, Cards, Red Sox, and Dodgers all have. Last season was a massive step, and I believe that Ed Rogers is in it to win it, but we are still not quite there. 

What happens if they repeat 2024 and finish in last place with a top 5 payroll?  Will Ed Rogers back off the amount they're willing to invest or will heads roll?

[Buster]

Vlad is such a frustrating player

[Carlos Danger]

3 hours ago, Jonn said:

That was a pretty abysmal series. Team needs Barger and Kirk back so bad.

I am not sure how much Barger will help the Jays, because I still don't know who he is.

Barger had a very mid August and September which was over shadowed by his next level playoff performance.

 

He was pretty crappy this year before the injury... So is he really going to be a sustainable  impact bat, or more like a Randal Grichuk who was very hot one half of the season and colder than a witch's tit the other half...?

[VladdyAlomar]

[Terminator]

3 hours ago, RA Whiffleball said:

I would say from 1994-2012 we were not competitive under Interbrew SA and the Ted Rogers version of Rogers, so the slow starts in those seasons are irrelevant. Neither ownership^gave a flying about the ball club.

Yes, we did sign Roger Clemens, but that was just to try to put more bums in seats.

In 2013-14, Rogers finally pulled their finger out, but you can't just flick a switch and expect to be competitive.

Since 2015, the club has been heading in the right direction, but still lacks that baseball heritage, that winning culture, that je ne sais quoi that clubs like the Yanks, Cards, Red Sox, and Dodgers all have. Last season was a massive step, and I believe that Ed Rogers is in it to win it, but we are still not quite there. 

 

 

The Red Sox have a winning culture? Lmao I’ve heard it all now 😂 

[Terminator]

The doomers have lost their damn minds  

[jaysblue]

[hanton]

Mets have lost 22 games, Jays.....21  

[Jays24]

[Stangstag]

4 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

I am not sure how much Barger will help the Jays, because I still don't know who he is.

Barger had a very mid August and September which was over shadowed by his next level playoff performance.

 

He was pretty crappy this year before the injury... So is he really going to be a sustainable  impact bat, or more like a Randal Grichuk who was very hot one half of the season and colder than a witch's tit the other half...?

How dare you

[Stangstag]

1 hour ago, Jays24 said:

Hope. At the very least, we’re only 1 game out of a playoff spot… because most of the AL has played like dogcrap

This team WILL be better 

[jaysblue]

6 hours ago, Stangstag said:

Hope. At the very least, we’re only 1 game out of a playoff spot… because most of the AL has played like dogcrap

This team WILL be better 

 

7 hours ago, Jays24 said:

It’s still a long season, boys. There’s plenty of time left. The Jays just need to survive this rough stretch and stay as close to .500 as possible.

Once this team starts getting healthy and finds a rhythm, they’re capable of going on a run where they win 7 or 8 out of 10. Luckily, most of the AL has been pretty mediocre so far, so nobody is really running away with the Wild Card outside of Tampa.

And honestly, the Jays likely have an advantage in a Wild Card round in comparison to other AL teams. Ideally, you avoid that route altogether since its a short series and anything can happen, but rolling out Gausman, Cease, and Yesavage over three games gives you a real shot.
 

[mphenhef]

40 minutes ago, jaysblue said:

 

It’s still a long season, boys. There’s plenty of time left. The Jays just need to survive this rough stretch and stay as close to .500 as possible.

Once this team starts getting healthy and finds a rhythm, they’re capable of going on a run where they win 7 or 8 out of 10. Luckily, most of the AL has been pretty mediocre so far, so nobody is really running away with the Wild Card outside of Tampa.

  a Wild Card round in comparison to other AL teams. Ideally, you avoid that route altogether since its a short series and anything can happen, but rolling out Gausman, Cease, and Yesavage over three games gives you a real shot.
 

Cleveland will role out Williams and Messick

Texas has Degrom and Eovaldi and gore

Mariners have a bevy of options

Yankees have Schlittler, Fried, Rodon, Cole
Our offense against Rays pitching is like the story of the stoppable force against the immovable object

 

All that is to say I'm not sure the Jays have the advantage you indicate

[Olerud363.354]

1 hour ago, mphenhef said:

Our offense against Rays pitching is like the story of the stoppable force against the immovable object

We won't be facing the Rays though....

Byes NY 106-56, Seattle - 91-71

Wild Card - W2 Texas 90-72 plays at W1 Tampa Bay 104-58

Wild Card - W3 Toronto 79-83 plays at D3 Chicago White Sox 80-82

Who will White Sox pitch? 

[Laika]

The rough start combined with the Yankees looking very good means the division repeat hopes are nearly dead.

But you only need to look at the current WC standings to understand that the season is a loooooooooooong way from lost. 

The nice thing for Toronto is that the American League as a whole is PATHETIC this year, so far. What is going on?

The only good teams on paper are NYY and TBR and the latter is a fraud, and closer to a .500 team by true talent. 

[Governator]

15 hours ago, RA Whiffleball said:

I would say from 1994-2012 we were not competitive under Interbrew SA and the Ted Rogers version of Rogers, so the slow starts in those seasons are irrelevant. Neither ownership^gave a flying about the ball club.

Yes, we did sign Roger Clemens, but that was just to try to put more bums in seats.

In 2013-14, Rogers finally pulled their finger out, but you can't just flick a switch and expect to be competitive.

Since 2015, the club has been heading in the right direction, but still lacks that baseball heritage, that winning culture, that je ne sais quoi that clubs like the Yanks, Cards, Red Sox, and Dodgers all have. Last season was a massive step, and I believe that Ed Rogers is in it to win it, but we are still not quite there. 

 

 

Keep in mind heritage doesn't mean winning culture, we've had winning culture for the past 10 years.

We lack baseball heritage because we haven't been around for 125-150 years. 

Also, we were very competitive with Clemens but Yankees built a dynasty by that time.  We would have been a postseason team by today's rules.

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, Governator said:

Keep in mind heritage doesn't mean winning culture, we've had winning culture for the past 10 years.

We lack baseball heritage because we haven't been around for 125-150 years. 

Also, we were very competitive with Clemens but Yankees built a dynasty by that time.  We would have been a postseason team by today's rules.

The Cubs went 108 years between World Series wins and the Red Sox went 86 years.  So you're correct, evidence suggests winning isn't a major requirement for heritage.  

[Olerud363.354]

12 hours ago, Terminator said:

The Red Sox have a winning culture? Lmao I’ve heard it all now

Everyone loves to beat them up.   They are less of a mess than the Jays right now arguably.  I don't know.  Both 16-21 I guess.   

If you want to go back 5 years Red Sox and Jays are within 10 wins.  Red Sox 2 playoff, Jays 3.  Jays a World Series appearance.  Red Sox an ALCS. 

Go back 10 years Red Sox way ahead. 

Go back 30 years Red Sox completely dominate.

Go back 50 years Red Sox better (4 rings to 2 both with heartbreaking 7 game WS losses)

Board irrationally hates the Red Sox.  Great, great organization.  Have some good prospects that actually hit. 

Red Sox Young Players hit .300 .400 .500 as teenagers or 20 - (Arrias, Justin Gonzales)

Like their young players actually function.  Not hitting 190 with a .320 OPS.  Good organization.  Board is just talking nonsense when dissing Red Sox. 

[Olerud363.354]

Red Sox fans are just so joyful right now watching their teenage prospects hit.  I know quite a few and watch them run to their computers in the morning to check MILB box scores to see how the teenagers did in A.  Or how big a game 20 year old Arrias had last night. 

It's a thrill for them.  They love it.  Full of hope watching teenagers hit.  And the big league team just crawled out of last place only 1.5 games out of WC3.

Even that fat guy who nearly had a heart attack is feeling Joy watching the Sox and their minor league teen age stars. 

[RA Whiffleball]

15 hours ago, JaysFan99 said:

What happens if they repeat 2024 and finish in last place with a top 5 payroll?  Will Ed Rogers back off the amount they're willing to invest or will heads roll?

I believe Ed Rogers is committed, otherwise he would not have poured all that money into the renovations of Dunedin and the Rogers Centre. 

Baseball is no different than any other sport; if the team underperforms, somebody (or somebodies) will pay for it.

 

[RA Whiffleball]

13 hours ago, Terminator said:

The Red Sox have a winning culture? Lmao I’ve heard it all now 😂 

9 WS, 14 pennants, 10 division titles. 

This century alone, they have won 4 WS (more than any other club), 4 pennants and 5 division titles. 

That is what I'd call a winning culture.

Keep laughing.

[Laika]

Accolades from before the World Wars don't count or are irrelevant 

Boston flirted with a winning culture for 15 years or so but they lost the thread around the time they traded Mookie Betts 

[RA Whiffleball]

1 hour ago, Governator said:

Keep in mind heritage doesn't mean winning culture, we've had winning culture for the past 10 years.

We lack baseball heritage because we haven't been around for 125-150 years. 

Also, we were very competitive with Clemens but Yankees built a dynasty by that time.  We would have been a postseason team by today's rules.

Heritage and history are different things. For me baseball heritage means you go into the season expecting to win because of recent past success, and you go out and deliver. It also means your players can handle the weight of expectation and not crumble under the prerssure. 

It also means players will sign for your team because they believe they have a good chance of winning. That's why all those guys chose the Dodgers over us, not just the money. 

We had baseball heritage in the Gillick years, Remember, FAs like Winfield, Morris, Molitor, Stewart, and others signed wth us because they believed we could win based on our success from 1983-1991. 

Right now, we are still building that heritage - we are heading in the right direction, but are not quite there yet, and the start of this season proves that. 

[Olerud363.354]

1 hour ago, Governator said:

Also, we were very competitive with Clemens but Yankees built a dynasty by that time.  We would have been a postseason team by today's rules.

We had many teams that should have at least had a competitive playoff spot race starting with 95.

Talent on the 95 was unreal, with most of the players having several good seasons left (Alomar, White, Olerud, Molitor, Delgao, Green, Shannon Stewart, Gonzlez, David Cone, Pat Hentgen, Al Leiter,  Juan Guzman).

The story of the 95 Blue Jays is very over-looked.  You replay that team with their average 93-98 performance and they are great.  Like all-time bizarre under-performance, and some mess up with young players who Cito didn't "trust". 

Many years like that.  Some rough ones to be sure where interbrew didn't support the payroll, but just tonnes of slow starts and under-performance.   Like in 2006 they really went all-in and had a bunch of great seasons but somehow scored 800 runs when they should have had 900.  

[RA Whiffleball]

3 minutes ago, Laika said:

Accolades from before the World Wars don't count or are irrelevant 

Boston flirted with a winning culture for 15 years or so but they lost the thread around the time they traded Mookie Betts 

Like I said, look at what the Red Sox have done this century, I would trade their 21st century for ours any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

[Olerud363.354]

3 minutes ago, Laika said:

Accolades from before the World Wars don't count or are irrelevant 

Boston flirted with a winning culture for 15 years or so but they lost the thread around the time they traded Mookie Betts 

Since they traded Mookie Betts they have won 10 games less than the Jays, 1 less playoff appearance.  Maybe 7 playoff game wins, vs Jays 10. 

Good lord.  

Math - Jays and Red Sox about even since Mookie Betts trade using simple numerics (total wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins).  Jays a bit better

Blue Jays Message Board - Blue Jays pinnacle of winning culture built around super star Vladimir Arraez Jr for 500 million.  Red Sox worse run franchise in baseball. 

 

[RA Whiffleball]

2 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

We had many teams that should have at least had a competitive playoff spot race starting with 95.

Talent on the 95 was unreal, with most of the players having several good seasons left (Alomar, White, Olerud, Molitor, Delgao, Green, Shannon Stewart, Gonzlez, David Cone, Pat Hentgen, Al Leiter,  Juan Guzman).

The story of the 95 Blue Jays is very over-looked.  You replay that team with their average 93-98 performance and they are great.  Like all-time bizarre under-performance, and some mess up with young players who Cito didn't "trust". 

Many years like that.  Some rough ones to be sure where interbrew didn't support the payroll, but just tonnes of slow starts and under-performance.   Like in 2006 they really went all-in and had a bunch of great seasons but somehow scored 800 runs when they should have had 900.  

The results speak for themselves. We were never in a division or WC race every season from 1994-2014. You can dance all you want, spew out the coulda, woulds, shouldas, but I prefere facts.