Jays sign Anthony Santander

[Orgfiller]

1 minute ago, mphenhef said:

I am not sure how I feel about the deferred money in this deal.  It’s like borrowing money to put a performance tire on one wheel of my Ford Pinto.

The deferral just means the teams saves money over the lifetime of the contract. Barring Rogers entering a ponzi schema ala Bobby Bonilla, they get to spend a lot less on Santander than without these deferrals.

[mphenhef]

Just now, Orgfiller said:

The deferral just means the teams saves money over the lifetime of the contract. Barring Rogers entering a ponzi schema ala Bobby Bonilla, they get to spend a lot less on Santander than without these deferrals.

True, but it means they are penalizing future teams to likely take this team from 5th to 4th.

[Orgfiller]

1 minute ago, mphenhef said:

True, but it means they are penalizing future teams to likely take this team from 5th to 4th.

Not really. They'll be putting this money into escrow at which point they won't be touching it and just gathering interest on it to pay it off to the player in the future. This should have little impact on future teams. Arguably has positive impact in that their tax bill is lower for CBT purposes for future signings.

[Bone R]

4 minutes ago, mphenhef said:

True, but it means they are penalizing future teams to likely take this team from 5th to 4th.

It actually helps future teams because we'll make money on the deferred money. 

[Jonn]

5 years for Santander is crazy. Desperation really has set in.

[mphenhef]

4 minutes ago, Orgfiller said:

Not really. They'll be putting this money into escrow at which point they won't be touching it and just gathering interest on it to pay it off to the player in the future. This should have little impact on future teams. Arguably has positive impact in that their tax bill is lower for CBT purposes for future signings.

Right, I forgot about the escrow part (and that it doesn’t count against CBT when it does get paid out…although watch that change in the next CBA)

[Bone R]

Can someone post what our likely starting lineup would look like as of today, assuming Varsho is ready opening day? Does George still bat lead off? 

[jaysblue]

16 minutes ago, Jonn said:

5 years for Santander is crazy. Desperation really has set in.

[Bone R]

18 minutes ago, Jonn said:

5 years for Santander is crazy. Desperation really has set in.

If you analyze the contract details, it's actually a good value contract. 

[Stangstag]

2 minutes ago, Bone R said:

Can someone post what our likely starting lineup would look like as of today, assuming Varsho is ready opening day? Does George still bat lead off? 

He shouldn’t. 

Gotta be Bo/Vlad/Santander in the top 4, but we don’t exactly have a clear leadoff guy or someone else to slot in at the top. Maybe Gimenez or Wagner in the 1/2 spot possibly?

Springer should probably be plugged into the 5th spot to start the year. 

Ideally we add 1 more bat that can slot in at the top.

[jaysblue]

10 minutes ago, Bone R said:

Can someone post what our likely starting lineup would look like as of today, assuming Varsho is ready opening day? Does George still bat lead off? 

Ideally, would rather have Springer down in the order, but I bet he's going to be given another chance to leadoff. Would rather have Bo leadoff and hit Vladdy second with Santander third. Get your best players the most AB's possible. 

If Springer is leadoff, lineup probably looks like this:

RF Springer

SS Bichette

1B Vladdy

LF Santander

CF Varsho

C Kirk

2B Gimenez

DH Wagner

3B Clement 

Bottom of the order, doesn't really matter. Figure Varsho bats 5th ahead of Kirk, since Kirk is slow on the base paths and don't want to block Varsho and his base running, which is one of his strengths. 

If guys like Wagner and Gimenez hit well, you can move them up. 

[Jimcanuck]

2 minutes ago, jaysblue said:

Ideally, would rather have Springer down in the order, but I bet he's going to be given another chance to leadoff. Would rather have Bo leadoff and hit Vladdy second with Santander third. Get your best players the most AB's possible. 

If Springer is leadoff, lineup probably looks like this:

RF Springer

SS Bichette

1B Vladdy

LF Santander

CF Varsho

C Kirk

2B Gimenez

DH Wagner

3B Clement 

Bottom of the order, doesn't really matter. Figure Varsho bats 5th ahead of Kirk, since Kirk is slow on the base paths and don't want to block Varsho and his base running, which is one of his strengths. 

Gimenez is the best baserunner and basestealer though.  He has bat leadoff before for that reason.  Putting him after Kirk, ugh

I'd put Springer down in the order from the get go.

[Brownie19]

Wagner has always been a high BB% guy in the minors...but we didn't see much of that at the ML level last year.  I wouldn't start him there (keep the pressure off), but I could see him work his way to the top of the lineup if he's producing.  His projections suggest he could hit near the top.

[Bone R]

5 minutes ago, jaysblue said:

Ideally, would rather have Springer down in the order, but I bet he's going to be given another chance to leadoff. Would rather have Bo leadoff and hit Vladdy second with Santander third. Get your best players the most AB's possible. 

If Springer is leadoff, lineup probably looks like this:

RF Springer

SS Bichette

1B Vladdy

LF Santander

CF Varsho

C Kirk

2B Gimenez

DH Wagner

3B Clement 

Bottom of the order, doesn't really matter. Figure Varsho bats 5th ahead of Kirk, since Kirk is slow on the base paths and don't want to block Varsho and his base running, which is one of his strengths. 

If guys like Wagner and Gimenez hit well, you can move them up. 

Thanks. Decent looking lineup if Springer could learn to hit again. I didn't realize Wagner was legit to the point where he's our DH. 

[jaysblue]

1 minute ago, Jimcanuck said:

Gimenez is the best baserunner and basestealer though.  He has bat leadoff before for that reason.  Putting him after Kirk, ugh

I'd put Springer down in the order from the get go.

I wouldn't bat Springer lead off in my opinion. But I bet they still do. Could be wrong.

If you get 2022 Gimenez, for sure. Not sure you can trust his sub .300 OBP in the leadoff spot. If he proves himself early on, he could move up quick.

Agreed with Kirk. Tough to put him anywhere in the lineup since he's going to block pretty much everyone haha. You could switch Gimenez with Kirk. 

[jaysblue]

1 minute ago, Bone R said:

Thanks. Decent looking lineup if Springer could learn to hit again. I didn't realize Wagner was legit to the point where he's our DH. 

Well, if the Jays don't sign a bat like Alonso haha, Wagner likely gets most of the AB's at DH. We'll see what happens. 

[BatFlip]

16 minutes ago, Bone R said:

If you analyze the contract details, it's actually a good value contract. 

Don’t expect him to, he just likes to whine about everything.

[Jimcanuck]

22 minutes ago, jaysblue said:

I wouldn't bat Springer lead off in my opinion. But I bet they still do. Could be wrong.

If you get 2022 Gimenez, for sure. Not sure you can trust his sub .300 OBP in the leadoff spot. If he proves himself early on, he could move up quick.

Agreed with Kirk. Tough to put him anywhere in the lineup since he's going to block pretty much everyone haha. You could switch Gimenez with Kirk. 

Gimenez career OBP is .322 and he is projected for .317

Not sure if his speed will get him more infield hits on the skydome turf.  Balls have to slow down faster on real grass

IMO Gimenez needs to high in the order where he can use his speed to steal bases and / or distract the battery

[Bone R]

12 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

Gimenez career OBP is .322 and he is projected for .317

Not sure if his speed will get him more infield hits on the skydome turf.  Balls have to slow down faster on real grass

IMO Gimenez needs to high in the order where he can use his speed to steal bases and / or distract the battery

Interesting analysis. I'm starting to prefer Gimenez batting lead off and Springer batting 5th or 6th. 

[Terminator]

5 years, 70 mil for Santander once the deferrals are factored in.

[Laika]

Holy fudge! Heavy deferrals baby!!!

I guess the draft pick value makes it closer to 5/$80M

[saskjayfan]

12 minutes ago, Terminator said:

5 years, 70 mil for Santander once the deferrals are factored in.

He can opt out after year 3, but we can void it and give him year 6.  If he's opting out we probably give him year 6.  14 mil against the luxury tax is a solid deal.  Less than projected.  If only we hadn't ah screw it.  I won't even go there.  Go sign Alonso now.

[Bone R]

5 minutes ago, saskjayfan said:

He can opt out after year 3, but we can void it and give him year 6.  If he's opting out we probably give him year 6.  14 mil against the luxury tax is a solid deal.  Less than projected.  If only we hadn't ah screw it.  I won't even go there.  Go sign Alonso now.

ah screw it???

[Bone R]

I think Alonso could sign with the Cubs. And the Tigers have interest in Bregman. 

[max silver]

1 hour ago, Jonn said:

5 years for Santander is crazy. Desperation really has set in.

Santander was right there with Teoscar as a plan B type of target in free agency with Soto being the plan A guy. This is a very good addition to a team desperately in need of power in the middle of the lineup.

[Omar]

1 hour ago, jaysblue said:

Ideally, would rather have Springer down in the order, but I bet he's going to be given another chance to leadoff. Would rather have Bo leadoff and hit Vladdy second with Santander third. Get your best players the most AB's possible. 

If Springer is leadoff, lineup probably looks like this:

RF Springer

SS Bichette

1B Vladdy

LF Santander

CF Varsho

C Kirk

2B Gimenez

DH Wagner

3B Clement 

Bottom of the order, doesn't really matter. Figure Varsho bats 5th ahead of Kirk, since Kirk is slow on the base paths and don't want to block Varsho and his base running, which is one of his strengths. 

If guys like Wagner and Gimenez hit well, you can move them up. 

Springer batting leadoff in 2025 tells us that Schneider has not really developed as a manager.  You would think that after the past few seasons he has learned to break away from his traditional thinking and become more dynamic in his approach.  He has to change it up or we may be in for a long season.

Keep doing what you've always done.....

[Masterbather]

Well this will not go down as my favourite Monday in history.

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

3 hours ago, jaysblue said:

Clement doesn't hit for more power. It's pretty much a wash. Kim has shown he could potentially hit 20 HR's (17 in 2023 playing half his games at Petco). 

OBP is a big deal. Kim is far superior. Means he generates less outs and gives the Jays a better chance to score more runs. A .350 OBP is a huge upgrade over a .280 OBP over a full season. 

Why do you think Clement is going to OBP .280?

[max silver]

14 minutes ago, Masterbather said:

Well this will not go down as my favourite Monday in history.

Yeah it obviously sucks to have a team starved for power sign one of the better power options in free agency.

[Blue balls]

1 hour ago, Jimcanuck said:

Gimenez career OBP is .322 and he is projected for .317

Not sure if his speed will get him more infield hits on the skydome turf.  Balls have to slow down faster on real grass

IMO Gimenez needs to high in the order where he can use his speed to steal bases and / or distract the battery

I agree with you.

I could see something like this to start the season with the actual roster.

1 - Gimenez

2 - Bichette

3 - Guerrero Jr

4 - Santander

5 - Varsho

6 - Kirk

Springer/Clement/Wagner/Loperfido/Barger/Schneider…

If it doesn’t work you push Gimenez down and leadoff Bichette. We are still missing a high contact hitter with good baserunning but it doesn’t look like there’s a great one available. I don’t see Alonso a fit at all unless it’s confirmed Vlad is leaving. If he would extend I would push hard for Bregman, than Profar and if both are not interested, settle for Grichuk in a platoon and re-assess next offseason.