Blue Jays Among 3 Teams Talking To Pete Alonso [Rosenthal]

[Laika]

1 minute ago, Orgfiller said:

An Alonso signing on its own prior to a Vlad trade would kind of be putting the cart before the horse right? It more or less signals the end of Vlad's tenure here, but if that deal isn't completed then it kind of hurts our leverage since teams would more or less know we have to get rid of him. Unless, we just sign Pete to be a 1B/DH partner with Vlad? Both Alonso and Vlad might genuinely gain defensive value by not ever taking the field.

Left Field Vlad!

Bit of a Manny being Manny situation. I have always wanted to see him in the outfield. 

[Terminator]

4 minutes ago, Orgfiller said:

An Alonso signing on its own prior to a Vlad trade would kind of be putting the cart before the horse right? It more or less signals the end of Vlad's tenure here, but if that deal isn't completed then it kind of hurts our leverage since teams would more or less know we have to get rid of him. Unless, we just sign Pete to be a 1B/DH partner with Vlad? Both Alonso and Vlad might genuinely gain defensive value by not ever taking the field.

You would either need to believe that Vlad is going to play more 3B until Pete's deal runs out or that both of them are okay with playing significant amounts of games as the DH

Seems like a stretch to me. Unless I suppose, Pete is simply signing a short term deal and the team and everyone involved is fine with it despite it being a little awkward.

The Jays been having problems with someone taking their money so that makes a little more sense.

[Brownie19]

Jays could be using this to force Tony Taters to make a f***ing decision...

[glory]

15 minutes ago, Laika said:

Maybe something as pathetic as the Teoscar contract with an opt out after year 1. Wouldn't that be nice. 

Shapiro in 2016: “In some ways they’re just another form of a player option which I think are ridiculous. You’ll never see us do a player option.”

Granted, he's given out a player option since then to Berrios, but that contract was structured for the options to be in years 6 and 7 of the deal, so they locked up 4 of his FA years. The market has changed since 2016, so maybe that combined with what looks like a one year window at best (unless Roki saves us) makes him change his thinking, but giving a 2-3 WAR 1B/DH $30M a year with the ability to opt out after one year seems like the least Shapiro/Atkins thing ever. That's even factoring the loss of a draft pick, which in 2025 will be high. 

[Terminator]

I don't know why he hates player options so bad. You generally want the players to opt out of the final years of their deal, especially when you are signing 30-somethings to multi-year deals in FA.

The only time you generally wouldn't would want the options would be if you extended a young star player who is opting out in year 30.

[BTS]

18 minutes ago, Orgfiller said:

An Alonso signing on its own prior to a Vlad trade would kind of be putting the cart before the horse right? It more or less signals the end of Vlad's tenure here, but if that deal isn't completed then it kind of hurts our leverage since teams would more or less know we have to get rid of him. Unless, we just sign Pete to be a 1B/DH partner with Vlad? Both Alonso and Vlad might genuinely gain defensive value by not ever taking the field.

I think it's workable:

Vlad:

3B 2-3 days a week

1B 2-3 days a week

DH 1 day  a week

 

Alonso:

1B 4-5 days a week
DH 1-2 days a week 

[Jimcanuck]

It's a problem only in the context of team building.  Not knowing whether a player is going to stay or f*** off makes the job of a FO more difficult

[Terminator]

9 minutes ago, BTS said:

I think it's workable:

Vlad:

3B 2-3 days a week

1B 2-3 days a week

DH 1 day  a week

 

Alonso:

1B 4-5 days a week
DH 1-2 days a week 

Don't forget Tony Taters in LF for 6-7 days a week

[Brownie19]

Can you imagine what Gimenez is thinking the days we have Vlad at 3rd, Bo at SS and Alonso at 1st?

"f*ck me - these guys suck"

[Jimcanuck]

Springer probably ends up below average defensively this year.

An all world duo of Gimenez and Varsho surrounded by butchers.

Edit - well damn I had no idea Springers numbers are that bad.

[Jays24]

3 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Can you imagine what Gimenez is thinking the days we have Vlad at 3rd, Bo at SS and Alonso at 1st?

"f*ck me - these guys suck"

Don't worry, they'll have the same comments when they see him hit, it'll even itself out lol

[Jays24]

2 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

Springer probably ends up below average defensively this year.

An all world duo of Gimenez and Varsho surrounded by butchers.

Just switch Bo/Gimenez and we can have 2 elite defenders at their positions.  If he isn't gonna extend here then f*** him lol. 

[Omar]

1 hour ago, Orgfiller said:

An Alonso signing on its own prior to a Vlad trade would kind of be putting the cart before the horse right? It more or less signals the end of Vlad's tenure here, but if that deal isn't completed then it kind of hurts our leverage since teams would more or less know we have to get rid of him. Unless, we just sign Pete to be a 1B/DH partner with Vlad? Both Alonso and Vlad might genuinely gain defensive value by not ever taking the field.

We announce Vlad to 3b after Petey signs. Then trade his fat caboose out of here. 

[Pendleton]

1 hour ago, BTS said:

I think it's workable:

Vlad:

3B 2-3 days a week

1B 2-3 days a week

DH 1 day  a week

 

Alonso:

1B 4-5 days a week
DH 1-2 days a week 

 

I had it broken down as Vlad playing 80ish games at 1B, 50+ as DH and maybe 20ish at 3B

 

Alonso 80ish at 1B and 70ish at DH. Still leaves a quarter season worth of DH starts available for rest days or whatever. 

 

Maybe consider moving Gimenez to SS and DH Bo on days when Vlad plays 3B

[Jimcanuck]

Bregman +4 WAR

Alonso +3 WAR - 2 WAR  from shifting Vlad to 3B

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, Jays24 said:

Don't worry, they'll have the same comments when they see him hit, it'll even itself out lol

Touché, but Gimenez will have the same comment when their running the bases 😄

Maybe don't tell Roki this is the plan though?  Keep it secret until he signs...then - surprise! 

[Grant77]

4 hours ago, Jimcanuck said:

Wow.  So many irons in the fire.  It will be hilarious if nothing comes from any of this.

I would be surprised if we sign either player. 

[Blue balls]

3 hours ago, Jimcanuck said:

Springer probably ends up below average defensively this year.

An all world duo of Gimenez and Varsho surrounded by butchers.

Edit - well damn I had no idea Springers numbers are that bad.

Springer passes the eye test if you only watch the game highlights reel. He’s still making nice diving catches.

[Jays24]

1 minute ago, Blue balls said:

Springer passes the eye test if you only watch the game highlights reel. He’s still making nice diving catches.

Ya and the fact we had to watch Teo/Gurriel out there, Springer is more than fine in the OF to me. 

[Blue balls]

5 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

Ya and the fact we had to watch Teo/Gurriel out there, Springer is more than fine in the OF to me. 

He’s ok defensively to me as well. What hurts is his offense is not strong enough anymore for his average defensive play.

[Jays24]

3 minutes ago, Blue balls said:

He’s ok defensively to me as well. What hurts is his offense is not strong enough anymore for his average defensive play.

Ya he's not playing like a 25M player anymore but if we can move him down to the 5th spot this year then it won't be as bad.  I've been saying all off-season that our goal needs to be to move Springer out of the top 4 of our order.  This is probably what's going to make or break the off-season for me.  

[Jimcanuck]

6 minutes ago, Blue balls said:

He’s ok defensively to me as well. What hurts is his offense is not strong enough anymore for his average defensive play.

Last year, he was average for the position offensively, but well below average defensively.  

[saskjayfan]

4 hours ago, Jimcanuck said:

Springer probably ends up below average defensively this year.

An all world duo of Gimenez and Varsho surrounded by butchers.

Edit - well damn I had no idea Springers numbers are that bad.

He hasn't lost anything in terms of speed.  He made athletic plays in the outfield.  His defensive value was hurt the most by some errant throws last.  The arm is one of the most variable components of an outfielder's defense.  It only takes a couple throwing errors to skew things.  I would say Springer is a perfectly average defensive corner outfielder.  I'm not concerned about his defense.  Now can his bat bounce back!

[Jimcanuck]

2 minutes ago, saskjayfan said:

He hasn't lost anything in terms of speed.  He made athletic plays in the outfield.  His defensive value was hurt the most by some errant throws last.  The arm is one of the most variable components of an outfielder's defense.  It only takes a couple throwing errors to skew things.  I would say Springer is a perfectly average defensive corner outfielder.  I'm not concerned about his defense.  Now can his bat bounce back!

Huh.  He has lost a lot of speed.  If he didn't he'd be CF

He is average offensively, poor defensively.  Your gut is wrong.

[Blue balls]

1 minute ago, Jimcanuck said:

Huh.  He has lost a lot of speed.  If he didn't he'd be CF

He’s not a CF anymore because he gets injured more often there than as a RF.

[max silver]

5 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

Huh.  He has lost a lot of speed.  If he didn't he'd be CF

No he really hasn't. Springer's best ever average sprint speed was 28.4 ft/second. Last season he averaged 28.1 ft/second.

[Jimcanuck]

2 minutes ago, max silver said:

No he really hasn't. Springer's best ever average sprint speed was 28.4 ft/second. Last season he averaged 28.1 ft/second.

Fair enough.  So the poor defensive metrics are from his arm, errors, etc

[saskjayfan]

10 minutes ago, Jimcanuck said:

Huh.  He has lost a lot of speed.  If he didn't he'd be CF

He is average offensively, poor defensively.  Your gut is wrong.

I'm not relying on my gut.  I'm looking at advanced stats and there's a bit of eye test to some of the rather fantastic plays he made last year.  He's not good, but he's not bad.  He's perfectly average as I've said.  His arm strength is 65th percentile.  His arm value was 3rd percentile.  It's highly likely his arm value is much higher next year.  

[Jimcanuck]

11 minutes ago, saskjayfan said:

I'm not relying on my gut.  I'm looking at advanced stats and there's a bit of eye test to some of the rather fantastic plays he made last year.  He's not good, but he's not bad.  He's perfectly average as I've said.  His arm strength is 65th percentile.  His arm value was 3rd percentile.  It's highly likely his arm value is much higher next year.  

Dunno what you are looking at but his 2024 defensive numbers are below average across the board.  He's getting older, not younger.  I wouldn't bet on 2025 improvements.

[SuperBlackhawk]

2 hours ago, Grant77 said:

I would be surprised if we sign either player. 

Ross Atkins is a tire kicker.