General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2025)

[max silver]

1 hour ago, Carlos Danger said:

He did not want to be taken out of the leadoff spot and he created an atmosphere where they were scared to do it without really pissing him off and the repercussions for the Team that come with it. After he started sucking for so long, he finally acquiesced. . 

Frame it however you want, they didn’t make the move earlier because of potential blowback. If any other player other than their guy with the biggest contract he would have been moved way prior. 

Stroman hasn’t technically refused to go to the pen yet. However, he tells the org and the media 100 times a day I am a starter, I am a starter. I am not a pen guy, I am a starter. 

Ergo, Yankees know if they put him in the pen there will be drama. Who gives a f*** what Stroman thinks. However with the Jays, they didn’t want to rock the boat. 

 

 

Please don't tell me you are seriously comparing George Springer to Marcus Stroman in terms of ego and drama. 

[max silver]

1 hour ago, Laika said:

This seems made up. I mean all of the references to "repercussions" or "pissing him off" or they were "scared to do it" or even the "potential blowback" being part of the thought process at all. 

They probably took so long to move him down because he still projected well and they didn't want to overreact and just thought it best to leave him in his usual spot. 

Part of the issue last season was that the team didn't really have anyone better for the leadoff spot early on in the season. The only decent option was IKF but handing him the most plate appearances on the team would have been questionable to say the least given his long term track record of well below average offensive production. 

[Carlos Danger]

3 hours ago, max silver said:

Please don't tell me you are seriously comparing George Springer to Marcus Stroman in terms of ego and drama. 

Hell no. I like Springer for the most part. I can’t stand Stroman. 

I was just using a current and public example of ball players not wanting to do something. To George’s credit, he dealt with it behind closed doors which Stroman and now Devers, have not.

 

 

 

 

[Angrioter]

16 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

Bo's OBP was .277 last year, Springer's was .303, Gimenez was .298.  If you only consider last years' results, then all 3 options suck.  We don't really have an obvious choice, so considering several candidates seems appropriate.  

Steamer OBP projections

Gimenez .318

Springer .319

Bo .324

The .371 mark Gimenez posted 2 years ago is also well above anything Bo's ever done and Springer only surpassed that mark once in his career (2019).  I don't see why you'd rule him out as an option in Day 1 of spring training...

 

Gimenez cant hit baseball bro.

 

Wagner is the best option to start the season.......If Bo hit again, then he's the guy later.

[Terminator]

5 hours ago, Angrioter said:

Gimenez cant hit baseball bro.

 

Wagner is the best option to start the season.......If Bo hit again, then he's the guy later.

Yeah I would probably go Wagner, Vlad, Santander, Bo, Springer to start the year.

Against lefties maybe they could move Springer to leadoff and move Wagner down.

[mphenhef]

It’s cute that people think the organization that removed a dealing berrios after 2 innings in a playoff game was too afraid to rock the boat with Springer and move him down.

[JaysAllMighty]

4 hours ago, mphenhef said:

It’s cute that people think the organization that removed a dealing berrios after 2 innings in a playoff game was too afraid to rock the boat with Springer and move him down.

Dumbest move in Jays history, I dislike Schneider, he's got no balls.

[max silver]

2 minutes ago, JaysAllMighty said:

Dumbest move in Jays history, I dislike Schneider, he's got no balls.

That move required a massive set of balls given how bold and controversial it was.

[JaysAllMighty]

11 minutes ago, max silver said:

That move required a massive set of balls given how bold and controversial it was.

LOL , Schneider is Shatkin's puppet.

[max silver]

10 minutes ago, JaysAllMighty said:

LOL , Schneider is Shatkin's puppet.

Both of Schneider and Atkins said exactly the same thing that this was Schneider's decision when to implement the move. I don't see any reason to believe this isn't true. 

[Spanky99]

2 hours ago, max silver said:

Both of Schneider and Atkins said exactly the same thing that this was Schneider's decision when to implement the move. I don't see any reason to believe this isn't true. 

C'mon man. 

That was Atkins' team plan, Schneider didn't have the balls to change the script, it was all embarrassing through communication, as no one on the team was told. They f***ed that up bigly and I believe it was on Ross.

[max silver]

2 hours ago, Spanky99 said:

C'mon man. 

That was Atkins' team plan, Schneider didn't have the balls to change the script, it was all embarrassing through communication, as no one on the team was told. They f***ed that up bigly and I believe it was on Ross.

Why on earth is everyone so quick to assume that Ross Atkins is some sort of evil domineering mastermind? He strikes me as more of a Ned Flanders type than someone that has his fingers in every single decision the organization makes. The team has a horde of dudes in Khakis to come up with schemes like this. My only real complaint is that it appears as though nobody informed the players of this plan. Take your pick of whether this is something that Atkins should have done, or if an in game decision like this should be relayed by the manager as he's supposed to be the on field leader of the troops.

[Spanky99]

19 minutes ago, max silver said:

Why on earth is everyone so quick to assume that Ross Atkins is some sort of evil domineering mastermind? He strikes me as more of a Ned Flanders type than someone that has his fingers in every single decision the organization makes. The team has a horde of dudes in Khakis to come up with schemes like this. My only real complaint is that it appears as though nobody informed the players of this plan. Take your pick of whether this is something that Atkins should have done, or if an in game decision like this should be relayed by the manager as he's supposed to be the on field leader of the troops.

Meh... I disagree. Atkins as a domineering evil mastermind, Ned Sanders, etc is hyperbole, I haven't said s*** in that regard.

[Pendleton]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/yimi-garcia-back-with-blue-jays-along-with-prospects-he-was-traded-for/

 

 

[Brownie19]

12 minutes ago, Pendleton said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/yimi-garcia-back-with-blue-jays-along-with-prospects-he-was-traded-for/

Thanks for posting.  I liked this quote:

Although the 34-year-old said there were “a lot of teams calling for me” once he hit the open market, “the Blue Jays were my first priority. I had a good feeling I will be back here when I got traded. I like it here. I had a good meeting when I left with Ross (Atkins). I like how they treat people, your family and the players. It's a little bit different than other teams.”

[John_Havok]

3 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Thanks for posting.  I liked this quote:

Although the 34-year-old said there were “a lot of teams calling for me” once he hit the open market, “the Blue Jays were my first priority. I had a good feeling I will be back here when I got traded. I like it here. I had a good meeting when I left with Ross (Atkins). I like how they treat people, your family and the players. It's a little bit different than other teams.”

Can't be true. Nobody ever wants to play in Toronto. 

[Jimcanuck]

3 hours ago, Spanky99 said:

I have 2 birds downvoting me, constantly. f***ing retard to be frank, As it's 1 guy,

You aren't 13 yrs old, are you Spanky?

[wilko]

12 hours ago, max silver said:

Why on earth is everyone so quick to assume that Ross Atkins is some sort of evil domineering mastermind? He strikes me as more of a Ned Flanders type than someone that has his fingers in every single decision the organization makes. The team has a horde of dudes in Khakis to come up with schemes like this. My only real complaint is that it appears as though nobody informed the players of this plan. Take your pick of whether this is something that Atkins should have done, or if an in game decision like this should be relayed by the manager as he's supposed to be the on field leader of the troops.

That move was 100% made by Atkins and his analytics nerds. Maybe hot dog had the power to change that decision, but he didn't. 

[Brownie19]

2 hours ago, wilko said:

That move was 100% made by Atkins and his analytics nerds. Maybe hot dog had the power to change that decision, but he didn't. 

Analytical nerds run baseball and have for years now.  The best teams have the best nerds.

I completely support the notion that the "plan" was to let Berrios work through the lineup a certain number of times before going to the pen.  I have to assume a manager has the ability to modify the plan as required, based on results/feel/etc.  Obviously if the starter shits the bed, he comes out early.  If he's dominating, they can let him go further.

I suspect every single playoff game that's played uses a similar strategy.  The challenging point is determining if he's actually dominating, or if he's just performing "normally" and/or getting lucky and whether or not you could deviate from the plan.  Schneider decided not to deviate from the plan.  We gave up just 2 runs that game, so it's hard to firmly support a notion that it was the "wrong" call - but I understand why fans were upset.

[Laika]

Reminder that the Jays lost that game 2-0 

The pitching plan worked fine, generally speaking 

Also with the clarity of another season, the decision makes more sense. Kikuchi is a way better SP at this point, with better stuff, and he out-projects Berrios now. Even in 2023 he was better than Berrios in many key indicators. So they wanted to swap JB out for a better pitcher and stuck to that plan. 

[max silver]

44 minutes ago, Laika said:

Reminder that the Jays lost that game 2-0 

The pitching plan worked fine, generally speaking 

Also with the clarity of another season, the decision makes more sense. Kikuchi is a way better SP at this point, with better stuff, and he out-projects Berrios now. Even in 2023 he was better than Berrios in many key indicators. So they wanted to swap JB out for a better pitcher and stuck to that plan. 

I had no issues with the plan in general, but I didn't agree with bringing in Kikuchi in the middle of the inning vs waiting until he could start an inning without runners on base as he's more accustomed to as a starter. With a little better luck on batted balls the plan could have worked to perfection as well as Kikuchi surrendered a few ground balls that snuck through the infield.

[L54]

If their intent was to turn to Kikuchi they should’ve brought him in to start the fourth, and not send Berrios out for one hitter

[Terminator]

The Twins were running a lot of platoons that year.

I think they had several lefties coming up when Kikuchi came in and the Twins burned their pinch hitters as a result.

They did tag us for a couple of early runs, but we had a great bullpen that year and all of our RH relievers mowed them down the rest of the game. I think this was part of the equation with bringing Kikuchi in.

But because we couldn't score it didn't matter.

[JaysAllMighty]

9 hours ago, Spanky99 said:

I have 2 birds downvoting me, constantly. f***ing retard to be frank, As it's 1 guy,

Just add them to your ignore list, they can't downvote you if they can't see your posts.

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, JaysAllMighty said:

Just add them to your ignore list, they can't downvote you if they can't see your posts.

That's not how the ignore list works. If you ignore them, you just can't see what they post...

[jaysblue]

13 hours ago, Spanky99 said:

I have 2 birds downvoting me, constantly. f***ing retard to be frank, As it's 1 guy,

LOL make it 3 now 🤣

[Perfect Game]

 

9 hours ago, wilko said:

That move was 100% made by Atkins and his analytics nerds. Maybe hot dog had the power to change that decision, but he didn't. 

The strategy came from James Click, Schneider said so himself. They discussed it with Berrios prior to the game & he was on board with it. That said, it's was a fire-able offense IMHO. If the manager couldn't see that Josè was pitching the game of his life & wasn't willing to take a risk on a game of that magnitude, then he shouldn't be the one making the call.

[jaysblue]

I would have kept Berrios in given that he was dealing throughout the first three innings. Would have kept him in until he showed signs of fatigue or breaking down. The Jays signed him to a huge contract extension worth $131M, so you would think they would have trust in him pitching more than 3 innings in a WC elimination game. On the other hand, the strategy didn't really hurt them since they still only lost 2-0. At the end of the day, the bats were non-existent during that game and that series. 

Not sure the impact the early hook on Berrios had on the team morale amongst the players though. I recall several players were surprised as well. 

[Omar]

1 hour ago, Perfect Game said:

 

The strategy came from James Click, Schneider said so himself. They discussed it with Berrios prior to the game & he was on board with it. That said, it's was a fire-able offense IMHO. If the manager couldn't see that Josè was pitching the game of his life & wasn't willing to take a risk on a game of that magnitude, then he shouldn't be the one making the call.

Absolutely. Based on the game Schneider should have called an audible and kept Berrios in the game. The look on Pete Walkers face that game told us everything. 

[max silver]

1 hour ago, jaysblue said:

LOL make it 3 now 🤣

I have the same 3 people that constantly downvote me. They have a really sweet thing going on and they are like the boards edgy boys.