Vladdy/Bo Extension or Trade Discussion

[John_Havok]

If he is less bad at either of those then he is a 1B and it encourages him to maintain his fitness it really should be something we try.

 

It really would increase the floor of his value. Right now he's tracking as a 4 WAR player by fWAR and a 5 WAR player by bWAR. I have read some posts that seem convincing that his defense isnt quite as bad as OAA would indicate.

 

But any other position he can play below average does raise the ceiling and floor. His bat to ball skills are so good that last year which I think we can consider a but unlucky is probably the floor.

 

The plus side of Vlads D is scooping at 1b. He's apparently the cream of yhe crop there. However. To wet blanket that, I belive Tango said when he stopped by that elite level scooping would be worth around ~3 runs per season above average. Doesn't move the needle much

[max silver]

If he is less bad at either of those then he is a 1B and it encourages him to maintain his fitness it really should be something we try.

 

It really would increase the floor of his value. Right now he's tracking as a 4 WAR player by fWAR and a 5 WAR player by bWAR. I have read some posts that seem convincing that his defense isnt quite as bad as OAA would indicate.

 

But any other position he can play below average does raise the ceiling and floor. His bat to ball skills are so good that last year which I think we can consider a but unlucky is probably the floor.

 

I'd like the club to move Vlad to third base full time. I think the in shape version of Vlad could at least provide similar defense to Rafael Devers. It's crazy how much he's improving with the bat as the season goes on, on April 27th he was sitting at 90 wRC+/-0.2 FWAR. Since then he's gone 178 wRC+/3.0 FWAR in 79 games. That's peak 2021 level Vlad and I think it's high time to give the man the extension he so badly wants. I wouldn't be at all surprised if ownership eventually steps in to get this done.

[John_Havok]

I'd like the club to move Vlad to third base full time. I think the in shape version of Vlad could at least provide similar defense to Rafael Devers. It's crazy how much he's improving with the bat as the season goes on, on April 27th he was sitting at 90 wRC+/-0.2 FWAR. Since then he's gone 178 wRC+/3.0 FWAR in 79 games. That's peak 2021 level Vlad and I think it's high time to give the man the extension he so badly wants. I wouldn't be at all surprised if ownership eventually steps in to get this done.

 

Even just looking at his last 13 games....8 HR, 6 BB, only 5 Ks

[Laika]

after his monster day "3 WAR" Vladdy is now on a projected pace for between 4.1 and 4.6 WAR

[AMS528]

Even just looking at his last 13 games....8 HR, 6 BB, only 5 Ks

 

Just an absolutely ridiculous heater. It's going to be an expensive extension, but at least now he's giving us reason to want to provide it.

 

It also does matter that he's been an ironman. He never misses a game, and he basically can player near every game. That's been the case every single season of his career.

[hanton]

The plus side of Vlads D is scooping at 1b. He's apparently the cream of yhe crop there. However. To wet blanket that, I belive Tango said when he stopped by that elite level scooping would be worth around ~3 runs per season above average. Doesn't move the needle much

 

yea; picks, plays at the bag and foot work needed to play that position are not captured by the range stats. By my eye test he is top 3 in picks.

[Carlos Danger]

If someone asked me if I would rather have a Gunner Henderson and Jordan Westburg type or a Westburg and Tarik Skabul type SP prospect, or Vlad, I would take the two players.

 

If you did trade Vlad and you were smart about it, that's what you could get, at least. You would have to do it now though.

[Orgfiller]

If someone asked me if I would rather have a Gunner Henderson and Jordan Westburg type or a Westburg and Tarik Skabul type SP prospect, or Vlad, I would take the two players.

 

If you did trade Vlad and you were smart about it, that's what you could get, at least. You would have to do it now though.

 

Gunnar Henderson is like the most valuable asset in baseball lol, he's not getting traded for Vlad and his $20+M arb salaries with not that much control left, let alone having to tack on to him. The Orioles arguably don't trade Vlad for Westburg straight up, although the Blue Jays don't do that either.

[Carlos Danger]

Gunnar Henderson is like the most valuable asset in baseball lol, he's not getting traded for Vlad and his $20+M arb salaries with not that much control left, let alone having to tack on to him. The Orioles arguably don't trade Vlad for Westburg straight up, although the Blue Jays don't do that either.

 

I didn't say Henderson and Westburg, nor Skabul. No way in hell the Orioles do that. I said TYPE of prospects. High first round pick types and high spec SPs.

[Laika]

I didn't say Henderson and Westburg, nor Skabul. No way in hell the Orioles do that. I said TYPE of prospects. High first round pick types and high spec SPs.

 

Agreed. Nick Senzel and Forrest Whitley types. Maybe a bit of Jo Adell and Keston Hiura. Or a sprinkle of Taylor Trammell, Eloy Jimenez, Brendan McKay types. Real high end top 20 dudes. Cater Kieboom types also float my boat. Alek Kiriloff, Cristian Pache types. Sixto Sanchez types. Gavin Lux types. Victor Robles types. Brent Honeywell, Luis Urias, Vidal Brujan, Brendan Rodgers, Michael Kopech. Those types.

 

(these are all 2019 top ~30 prospect lol)

[Carlos Danger]

Agreed. Nick Senzel and Forrest Whitley types. Maybe a bit of Jo Adell and Keston Hiura. Or a sprinkle of Taylor Trammell, Eloy Jimenez, Brendan McKay types. Real high end top 20 dudes. Cater Kieboom types also float my boat. Alek Kiriloff, Cristian Pache types. Sixto Sanchez types. Gavin Lux types. Victor Robles types. Brent Honeywell, Luis Urias, Vidal Brujan, Brendan Rodgers, Michael Kopech. Those types.

 

(these are all 2019 top ~30 prospect lol)

 

You are picking some real doozies to make your point. Even I didn't trust Adel or Pache's hit tools when they were specs. Brujan always had questions about his hit tool. Reg flags on Trammel when he was a spec.

 

I would hope the FO evaluation would be better that. Thought I am arguing against myself, since I am not confident in the FO's talent assessment as to their overall body of work.

[Brownie19]

You are picking some real doozies to make your point. Even I didn't trust Adel or Pache's hit tools when they were specs. Brujan always had questions about his hit tool. Reg flags on Trammel when he was a spec.

 

I would hope the FO evaluation would be better that. Thought I am arguing against myself, since I am not confident in the FO's talent assessment as to their overall body of work.

 

Jo Adell was the #1 prospect in baseball at one point man. Yes, there were some question marks, but you can't pretend like everyone knew he'd be a bum. Most/all prospects have something they are still developing. It's very difficult to know which ones will figure it out and which won't. Great GM's f*** up that evaluation all the time because there's always a probability of failure that is often outside of their control. It's just like a great poker player. They know the odds inside and out, yet they still lose quite often. In your theoretical scenario, you have to factor in the likelihood that one (or both) of the stud prospects you trade Vlad for could bust - with little to nothing you can do about it.

[Carlos Danger]

Jo Adell was the #1 prospect in baseball at one point man. Yes, there were some question marks, but you can't pretend like everyone knew he'd be a bum. Most/all prospects have something they are still developing. It's very difficult to know which ones will figure it out and which won't. Great GM's f*** up that evaluation all the time because there's always a probability of failure that is often outside of their control. It's just like a great poker player. They know the odds inside and out, yet they still lose quite often. In your theoretical scenario, you have to factor in the likelihood that one (or both) of the stud prospects you trade Vlad for could bust - with little to nothing you can do about it.

 

You have a point. However, I will say that Jim and I knew Adell would be a bust We were both playing hot potato with him in fantasy.

 

Jim traded him to me for Pearson, but I knew I was going to flip him, which I did for Dylan Carlson and a high Yankee SP spec who amounted to nothing, ICR his name.

 

So looking back on it we all got screwed in one of our evaluations after a while. Pearson, Carlson, the Yankees SP and Adel all ended up sucking. lol

[MikeM3]

Must trade now. Sell high window is back.

 

Even if you're confident that he'll rake, there's no way that body stays healthy or retains any modicum of baserunning or defensive value.

[jerb]

[glory]

A top 3 AAV would be over $40m, so if that's what Vlad is asking for over a 10+ year term, then most likely scenarios are 1) they will end up moving him next July or 2) if they are in contention then they will let him go to free agency and see what the market says. Both of the latter scenarios seem a lot less desirable than trading him now and maxing out his trade value, but the Jays want to compete in 2025, so it ain't happening now.

[BTS]

 

Thank f***ing god. Good riddance.

[Stangstag]

Thank f***ing god. Good riddance.

 

I’d be fine if Bo was traded and we filled the SS spot with an elite/above average glove.

 

Go with good gloves up the middle (Varsho, Kirk, SS replacement) and get power bats for the corners (3B and LF)

[Terminator]

Trade Bo and sign Kim or Adames; the classic mock offseason switcheroo

[Dr. Dinger]

I’m sick of Bo’s sulky attitude, flabby body, girl hair, and Baezean swing decisions. Hopefully we can at least get a couple Top 100 prospects for him after this crater of a season.

[Carlos Danger]

I’m sick of Bo’s sulky attitude, flabby body, girl hair, and Baezean swing decisions. Hopefully we can at least get a couple Top 100 prospects for him after this crater of a season.

 

Come on dude, you know you wouldn't kick him out of bed for eating crackers

[BTS]

Come on dude, you know you wouldn't kick him out of bed for eating crackers

 

Every time I see this expression I think of the time a woman I was seeing pulled a doughnut off the table beside my bed and started eating it before we went to sleep at around 1-2 in the morning. She had picked it up earlier from Tim Horton's and not eaten it. She finished eating it, turned out out the light and rolled over to go to sleep. I couldn't let it go and asked if she was going to brush her teeth post-doughnut. It led to a massive fight and she went home.

 

All that to say, I've never kicked someone out of bed for eating crackers, but I have kicked someone out of bed for eating a doughnut.

[Carlos Danger]

Every time I see this expression I think of the time a woman I was seeing pulled a doughnut off the table beside my bed and started eating it before we went to sleep at around 1-2 in the morning. She had picked it up earlier from Tim Horton's and not eaten it. She finished eating it, turned out out the light and rolled over to go to sleep. I couldn't let it go and asked if she was going to brush her teeth post-doughnut. It led to a massive fight and she went home.

 

All that to say, I've never kicked someone out of bed for eating crackers, but I have kicked someone out of bed for eating a doughnut.

 

That's fnnnn awesome and a classic! LMAO!!

[Brownie19]

Every time I see this expression I think of the time a woman I was seeing pulled a doughnut off the table beside my bed and started eating it before we went to sleep at around 1-2 in the morning. She had picked it up earlier from Tim Horton's and not eaten it. She finished eating it, turned out out the light and rolled over to go to sleep. I couldn't let it go and asked if she was going to brush her teeth post-doughnut. It led to a massive fight and she went home.

 

All that to say, I've never kicked someone out of bed for eating crackers, but I have kicked someone out of bed for eating a doughnut.

 

I think I would have assumed she was going to brush her teeth after sucking me off. No need to brush twice. Otherwise, she's a monster for eating a donut and then going to sleep without brushing.

[Omar]

The Bo hate is strong in here. Some of it irrational. He will bounce back next year and up his value for a trade and be gone soon enough.

[Masterbather]

Soto is gonna be a Yankee. We’re not gonna sign him. Maybe a tiny chance he is a Met, but most likely a Yankee. He loves playing in NY, he loves the biggest stage. He’s played great there. The Yankees love him and they have the money. He will go through FA just to get his price up but he is not coming here.

 

I think the Jays should offer him stupid money. I'd rather make a gigantic commitment to this guy than Vlad. At the very least I would make sure the Yankees don't have any easy time with re-signing him, make the market such that they have to pay more than they probably intended in order to keep him. That would be a win for me. It would be nice if he made enough money to piss off Judge, because Judge is supposed to be the top dog.

[Laika]

The Bo hate is strong in here. Some of it irrational. He will bounce back next year and up his value for a trade and be gone soon enough.

 

yes it's a lot like the Vlad hate from last year and some of this year, when everyone thought he was broken forever

[Dr. Dinger]

Come on dude, you know you wouldn't kick him out of bed for eating crackers

 

I think he's been eating too many crackers.

[John_Havok]

I think the Jays should offer him stupid money. I'd rather make a gigantic commitment to this guy than Vlad. At the very least I would make sure the Yankees don't have any easy time with re-signing him, make the market such that they have to pay more than they probably intended in order to keep him. That would be a win for me. It would be nice if he made enough money to piss off Judge, because Judge is supposed to be the top dog.

 

Gotta think Soto is going to be in that 13 year 45-50 per year range. Also guessing the contract has opt outs and has a fair chunk of it deferred until 2050 or some s***.

 

Like, they could sign both Vlad and Soto to 13 year deals, but heavily front load for the first 4 years or something with big chunks deferred, then include an opt out after 4 years or something (age 30) with the actual dollars per year after that opt out being 30-35 million or something.

 

At least that way you get them both for their best prime seasons, they get their high AAV asks, buit only actually pay them the biggest part of their salary later on spread out, and hope they opt out at 30.

[G-Snarls]

Every time I see this expression I think of the time a woman I was seeing pulled a doughnut off the table beside my bed and started eating it before we went to sleep at around 1-2 in the morning. She had picked it up earlier from Tim Horton's and not eaten it. She finished eating it, turned out out the light and rolled over to go to sleep. I couldn't let it go and asked if she was going to brush her teeth post-doughnut. It led to a massive fight and she went home.

 

All that to say, I've never kicked someone out of bed for eating crackers, but I have kicked someone out of bed for eating a doughnut.

 

This story made my day

 

Thank you for sharing