Around Baseball 2024

[BTS]

Civale to Milwaukee. Rays get a jump on the selling

[Olerud363]

https://forum.orioleshangout.com/.

 

Orioles Hangout -- a place of forever joy, a place of happiness, a place of confidence, a place of goodwill, a place of hope, a place of excitement, a place with a future.

 

And all it costed was a 5 year losing cycle, 2 of which were in pandemic conditions.

 

In October 2016 both the Orioles and the Blue Jays cycles ended. Jays beat the Orioles in a wild card game and had a nice playoff run.

 

Since then, as of July 3rd 2024

 

Playoff appearances - Oriole 1, Jays 2

Division title - Orioles 1 Jays 0

Playoff wins - Orioles 0 Jays 0

Playoff round 2 appearances - Orioles 1 Jays 0

 

Anticipated winning cycle year Jays 2020-2023, Orioles 2022-2032

 

Orioles started winning cycle 2 years later, but will likely go 9 years longer.

 

This comparison will not be getting any better for the Jays

[Stangstag]

Royce Lewis goes down again, c-poop. lol

 

Shocker

[hanton]

Biggio's playing time might be cut even further, Chris Talylor is heating up and can easly handle 3B, and I don't know what they do with him once Muncy is fully healthy

[Stangstag]

Biggio's playing time might be cut even further, Chris Talylor is heating up and can easly handle 3B, and I don't know what they do with him once Muncy is fully healthy

 

I think he gets dropped once Muncy returns

[Omar]

I think he gets dropped once Muncy returns

 

Maybe sooner if they take a flyer on Tim Anderson.

[jaysblue]

Civale to Milwaukee. Rays get a jump on the selling

 

Becomes a FA after 2025 so still has one more year left of control. He's nothing special - No. 4/5 starter with a bit of upside though he should fit in well with the Brewers. Gregory Barrios was ranked as No. 21 on the Brewers Top 30 Prospect list.

 

Makes you think the return for Kikuchi might be along the same lines. Kikuchi would be a better arm to have down the stretch but would only be a year rental.

[Laika]

Becomes a FA after 2025 so still has one more year left of control. He's nothing special - No. 4/5 starter with a bit of upside though he should fit in well with the Brewers. Gregory Barrios was ranked as No. 21 on the Brewers Top 30 Prospect list.

 

Makes you think the return for Kikuchi might be along the same lines. Kikuchi would be a better arm to have down the stretch but would only be a year rental.

 

Kikuchi is a lot better though.

 

Civale probably not a playoff SP. Maybe SP4 in along series.

 

Kikuchi can probably be a SP in the playoffs because he has the stuff the shut down a good lineup for 5 innings.

 

The Rays kind of just dumped Civale because they have better options for their rotation right now.

[jaysblue]

Kikuchi is a lot better though.

 

Civale probably not a playoff SP. Maybe SP4 in along series.

 

Kikuchi can probably be a SP in the playoffs because he has the stuff the shut down a good lineup for 5 innings.

 

The Rays kind of just dumped Civale because they have better options for their rotation right now.

 

Yeah I would prefer having Kikuchi as well for a Postseason run. He would be more of a difference maker and could start in a WC matchup or short series for sure.

 

Brewers probably value the extra year of control and low salary. Civale was pretty good last season: 8.53 K/9, 3.57 FIP, 2.5 WAR. At the end of the day, he wasn't any different than what Kikuchi was in 2023. This season, completely different story. Kikuchi has been way better.

[mikepelfrey]

Yeah I would prefer having Kikuchi as well for a Postseason run. He would be more of a difference maker and could start in a WC matchup or short series for sure.

 

Brewers probably value the extra year of control and low salary. Civale was pretty good last season: 8.53 K/9, 3.57 FIP, 2.5 WAR. At the end of the day, he wasn't any different than what Kikuchi was in 2023. This season, completely different story. Kikuchi has been way better.

 

They also know that Kikuchi has been downright horrible in the post season. When he was in Seattle they wouldn’t use him because they didn’t trust him and in his only opportunity with the Jays he was rocked and couldn’t get out of the 2nd inning. Baseball GM’s have long memories.

 

Remember that’s how the Jays got Kikuchi, the Mariners declined the option they had on Kikuchi, making him a free agent. You have to think Dipoto, who years earlier loved Kikuchi calling him the future of the mariners, saw something that soured him enough to cut bait.

Edited July 3, 2024 by mikepelfrey

[G-Snarls]

Royce Lewis goes down again, c-poop. lol

 

Brooks Lee gets the callup

 

That's pretty quick for a 2022 draft pick. Edit: I guess he's 23 years old.

 

Good opportunity for him

[G-Snarls]

Whenever a top 20 prospect get promoted I always wonder who owns them in the dynasty leagues

[connorp]

Royce Lewis goes down again, c-poop. lol

 

Yeah, he belong Tier 1 for sure. Won’t say otherwise again.

 

It’s weird he’s 25, Jung 26 and Correa is only 29. Something feels off there

[jaysblue]

Whenever a top 20 prospect get promoted I always wonder who owns them in the dynasty leagues

 

[Terminator]

[L54]

 

Apparently he tweets FURRIES every year there is some strange furry convention in Pittsburgh

[Terminator]

Yeah and then he usually goes on a tear. Entering last year he has a slash line of .419/.479/.742 in over 70 career plate appearances when the furries are in town

[Krylian]

Apparently he tweets FURRIES every year there is some strange furry convention in Pittsburgh

 

Or he's really into 70s porn.

[L54]

Yeah and then he usually goes on a tear. Entering last year he has a slash line of .419/.479/.742 in over 70 career plate appearances when the furries are in town

 

Wow! It’s go time for Cutch

[Carlos Danger]

Kikuchi is a lot better though.

 

Civale probably not a playoff SP. Maybe SP4 in along series.

 

Kikuchi can probably be a SP in the playoffs because he has the stuff the shut down a good lineup for 5 innings.

 

The Rays kind of just dumped Civale because they have better options for their rotation right now.

 

The Jays left Kikuchi off the playoff rotation last year, and pulled Berrios after 3 stellar innings. You really think they would let him go 5 ip in a playoff game?

 

Kikuchi avg 4.2 innings or something last year and does not have a good history end of the year even in the regular season.. I think he is physically spent by end of year.

Edited July 4, 2024 by Carlos Danger

[Laika]

The Jays left Kikuchi of the playoff rotation last year, and pulled Berrios after 3 stellar innings. You really think they would let him go 5 ip in a playoff game?

 

Kikuchi avg 4.2 innings or something last year and does not have a good history end of the year even in the regular season.. I think he is physically spent by end of year.

 

Wait why does it matter at all what the Jays would do? The Jays are stupid.

 

He has the stuff to give any team 5 strong and shut down a great lineup. It's true! whether or not he actually does that is just a matter of performance and pitch count.

[Carlos Danger]

Wait why does it matter at all what the Jays would do? The Jays are stupid.

 

He has the stuff to give any team 5 strong and shut down a great lineup. It's true! whether or not he actually does that is just a matter of performance and pitch count.

 

Yes, I agree, the Jays are stupid!

[Spanky__99]

The Jays left Kikuchi of the playoff rotation last year, and pulled Berrios after 3 stellar innings. You really think they would let him go 5 ip in a playoff game?

 

Kikuchi avg 4.2 innings or something last year and does not have a good history end of the year even in the regular season.. I think he is physically spent by end of year.

 

Kooch was better in the 2nd half last season and has been worth 4.4 fWAR to date since they fixed him prior to the '23 season, he's far better than Civale, CD? That's not even mentioning the difference in durability and innings pitched.

[BatFlip]

The Jays left Kikuchi of the playoff rotation last year, and pulled Berrios after 3 stellar innings. You really think they would let him go 5 ip in a playoff game?

 

Kikuchi avg 4.2 innings or something last year and does not have a good history end of the year even in the regular season.. I think he is physically spent by end of year.

 

 

Not quite. He averaged 5.2 innings which was basically league average for a starter (5.1 innings) and he's been used at almost exactly the same length this year. He's no front-end starter, but he definitely is useful to any potential playoff team struggling with starter depth.

[Carlos Danger]

Kooch was better in the 2nd half last season and has been worth 4.4 fWAR to date since they fixed him prior to the '23 season, he's far better than Civale, CD? That's not even mentioning the difference in durability and innings pitched.

 

Not comparing him at all to Civale. Which I probably should have made more clear.

 

My comment was specifically to the Blue Jays using him as a playoff pitcher. Just a shot at what happened last year.

[Spanky__99]

Not comparing him at all to Civale.

 

My comment was specifically to the Blue Jays using him as a playoff pitcher.

 

Well you threw me for a loop as you quoted Laika's post about Kooch being better than Civale? The Jays would've used him in a longer series I believe.

[jaysblue]

Kooch was better in the 2nd half last season and has been worth 4.4 fWAR to date since they fixed him prior to the '23 season, he's far better than Civale, CD? That's not even mentioning the difference in durability and innings pitched.

 

Civale was pretty much the same as Kikuchi in 2023 in terms of value. They've had pretty much similar careers. No 4/5 starters with mid-rotation upside.

 

Kikuchi has been much better than Civale this season though.

 

Civale is cheaper and has one more year left of control, so a team like the Brewers definitely would value him more.

 

At the end of the day, Kikuchi probably brings in the same return as Civale or maybe a bit less. If Kikuchi was pitching like he did in April and in the AL Cy Young conversation, he would have got the Jays a very nice piece.

[Spanky__99]

Civale was pretty much the same as Kikuchi in 2023 in terms of value. They've had pretty much similar careers. No 4/5 starters with mid-rotation upside.

 

Kikuchi has been much better than Civale this season though.

 

Civale is cheaper and has one more year left of control, so a team like the Brewers definitely would value him more.

 

At the end of the day, Kikuchi probably brings in the same return as Civale or maybe a bit less. If Kikuchi was pitching like he did in April and in the AL Cy Young conversation, he would have got the Jays a very nice piece.

 

2 different pitchers and one hasn't broke a 125 IP marker in his career, Kooch is better as explained to you already. Teams looking at the deadline want upgrades that help in the PS.

[wilko]

Kikuchi > Civale. Plus I read Civale didn't want to play for Tampa so he's also whiny bitch.

[jaysblue]

2 different pitchers and one hasn't broke a 125 IP marker in his career, Kooch is better as explained to you already. Teams looking at the deadline want upgrades that help in the PS.

 

Civale has a higher career WAR than Kikuchi and is also 4-years-younger with another year left of control. They have been pretty much similar throughout their careers.

 

I agree, if I'm a GM looking to upgrade my rotation for a Postseason run, right now I would take Kikuchi given his higher K/9% and more success this season thus far. Other teams may have different opinions. Maybe the Brewers feel like with a change of scenary, Civale turns things around and returns to his 2023 form. They probably value the low salary and extra year of control as well more than some other Postseason clubs would. Maybe some teams are concerned about Kikuchi being consistent and returning to being a jekyll and hyde type arm down the stretch and in a short Postseason series. It's possible. I'm sure some clubs still view Kikuchi as a No 4/5 with mid-rotation upside. As a rental, he's not bringing much more in return than what the Brewers gave up for Civale.