General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[G-Snarls]

Arenado's contract is

 

$32M ($5M paid by Rockies)

$27M ($5M paid by Rockies)

$15M

 

So it's only $15 + $22 + $27 = $64M left to any team that trades for him. 3/$64M

 

It's not THAT gross. His projections are okay?

 

 

I'd be down for Goldschmidt on a one year deal in the Jays situation for sure. In fact, he's kind of a perfect fit.

 

If the Jays completely whiff in free agency, I would actually consider trading nothing for Arenado. The deal remaining in 2025 and 2026 won't be that relevant for a team like Toronto anyway.

 

s***, hadn't realized how little overall they'd have to pay Arenado the last 3 years. Hmmm. And the defense. Vlad could no longer even *ask* to play 3B.

[G-Snarls]

OK f*** it

 

I want to trade for Arenado and sign Kittredge to a 2 year deal

 

Lol

 

Improves the offense, defense and back end of the bullpen

[The_DH]

I totally expect the management to stay but lots of tweaking in development. The pitching had a lot of problems with injuries which happens and I don't have any problem with that. But the hitting was a s*** show. Only one hitter really did well and that was after he found his answers somewhere else (maybe from Encarnacion, I'd really like to know). It seems whenever we called somebody up, they did really well at first and then something happened and they deflated big time. Schneider being a good example of that, even Horwitz declined a bit. Seems like the hitting coaches hurt, not helped. Would like to see that addressed.

[Brownie19]

I totally expect the management to stay but lots of tweaking in development. The pitching had a lot of problems with injuries which happens and I don't have any problem with that. But the hitting was a s*** show. Only one hitter really did well and that was after he found his answers somewhere else (maybe from Encarnacion, I'd really like to know). It seems whenever we called somebody up, they did really well at first and then something happened and they deflated big time. Schneider being a good example of that, even Horwitz declined a bit. Seems like the hitting coaches hurt, not helped. Would like to see that addressed.

 

I'm sorry man, but you really have no idea if any of this is true. You have no idea who helped fix Vlad (or who broke him in the first place). You're also seemingly ignoring the fact that pitchers adjust after they have a couple of months worth of data on a hitter. We get a 127 wRC+ season from a 26 year old Horwitz and you're suggesting the coaching staff is to blame because he didn't post a 150 wRC+? C'mon.

Edited September 30, 2024 by Brownie19

[The_DH]

True, I don't know for a fact what screwed up all of the hitters. But we clearly had an entire roster of below average hitting. Somehow has to be addressed.

[Barrelsandbombs]

Jays fired Guillermo Martinez

 

[Terminator]

Jays fired Guillermo Martinez

 

 

Don Mattingly continues to consolidate power

[Barrelsandbombs]

When did this happen lol

 

[hanton]

Jays fired Guillermo Martinez

 

 

the firing line

 

They have no choice but they're running out people to fire

[max silver]

The coalition still believing in this FO is down to AA haters, Statkins cult fart sniffers, Hopium smokers and a few apologists.

 

If they make it through the off season, its show me time. Talk is cheap. Its only about results now - seats sold, eye balls watching and on the field performance convergence. They have been given a 3rd wildcard reprieve.

 

The Jays lost the fewest games to injury in MLB in 2024 and won 74 games with a luxury tax payroll. The next fewest games lost to injury in MLB were the Tigers with 54 more. There really aren't any good excuses left. Every team deals with IL losses, under performers and over performers every year.

 

The farm is bottom third to quarter depending on various rankings. Its just not good enough. We have become the old, expensive team other teams want to play.

 

The Blue Jays traded away basically half of their starting lineup at the deadline including the DH/center fielder/starting third baseman/starting catcher, a middle of the rotation starter and their closer as well. That directly factors into the low win total. Even if they made the foolish decision to load up before the trade deadline the team would have had a tough time even running a winning percentage over .500, but the team as constructed simply wasn't as bad as the final result as the team was largely disassembled. They also weren't a luxury tax team after the deadline either and won't likely be end of season either.

[Brownie19]

Jays fired Guillermo Martinez

 

 

That's great news. Incoming Horwitz 150 wRC+ season.

[jaysblue]

The Blue Jays traded away basically half of their starting lineup at the deadline including the DH/center fielder/starting third baseman/starting catcher, a middle of the rotation starter and their closer as well. That directly factors into the low win total. Even if they made the foolish decision to load up before the trade deadline the team would have had a tough time even running a winning percentage over .500, but the team as constructed simply wasn't as bad as the final result as the team was largely disassembled. They also weren't a luxury tax team after the deadline either and won't likely be end of season either.

 

Please stop it.

 

This team was flawed from the get go this season. Stop giving excuses for this front office!

[The_DH]

Jays fired Guillermo Martinez

 

 

Faster than I thought. More should follow.

[hanton]

Just replay the 2023 post season presser (minus the Berrios stuff), no need to watch the 2024 version

[G-Snarls]

Did Martinez mess Vladdy up and someone else fixed him?

 

Didn't Vladdy used to work with him in the off season?

[John_Havok]

Faster than I thought. More should follow.

 

Theyve already cleaned out a huge chunk of the minor league pitching and hitting guys, not many left to fire

[Jonn]

Low key forgot he was the hitting coach lol. We seem to have a lot of them. And Matt Hague whatever he's doing keep him.

[AMS528]

The Blue Jays traded away basically half of their starting lineup at the deadline including the DH/center fielder/starting third baseman/starting catcher, a middle of the rotation starter and their closer as well. That directly factors into the low win total. Even if they made the foolish decision to load up before the trade deadline the team would have had a tough time even running a winning percentage over .500, but the team as constructed simply wasn't as bad as the final result as the team was largely disassembled. They also weren't a luxury tax team after the deadline either and won't likely be end of season either.

 

They traded Turner, but at that point they had Horwitz who was already hitting much better. They traded IKF who was never going to keep up his performance and didnt as expected in Pittsburgh his bat entirely collapsed. Chalk that one one up as lucky as Clement was better than IKF would have been the rest of the way.

Jansen and KK were both having bad seasons, losing KK was going to help if anything. The pen was a bit worse and losing Kikuchi probably cost a couple of wins, but Clement and Horwitz getting the AB's that may have been taken by Turner and IKF probably makes it close to a wash there. Kirk was much better than Jansen as well and him playing more wouldn't have hurt given how good his defensive numbers were.

 

This team was maybe a win or two better without the deals let's be honest. They sucked and they would have continued to suck in new ways.

[max silver]

They traded Turner, but at that point they had Horwitz who was already hitting much better. They traded IKF who was never going to keep up his performance and didnt as expected in Pittsburgh his bat entirely collapsed. Chalk that one one up as lucky as Clement was better than IKF would have been the rest of the way.

Jansen and KK were both having bad seasons, losing KK was going to help if anything. The pen was a bit worse and losing Kikuchi probably cost a couple of wins, but Clement and Horwitz getting the AB's that may have been taken by Turner and IKF probably makes it close to a wash there. Kirk was much better than Jansen as well and him playing more wouldn't have hurt given how good his defensive numbers were.

 

This team was maybe a win or two better without the deals let's be honest. They sucked and they would have continued to suck in new ways.

 

Yeah I was thinking about how much the trades likely affected the overall quality of the team. Several of the pieces that were moved weren't exactly lighting the world on fire. Clement provided a lot of the value that IKF did as a Blue Jay, losing Kiermaier was likely a net positive given how poorly he hit this season, trading Kikuchi opened a spot for Francis who was a revelation out of the pen etc. At any rate the team was running a lot of rookies in the last few months who didn't necessarily fully deserve MLB playing time (guys like Loperfido, Del Los Santos, Berroa and others) and this absolutely cost the teams the chance for more victories. They actually went on a bit of a run in August based on the offense heating up but after guys like Bo and Varsho were completely finished for the season the offense completely ground to a halt.

[John_Havok]

Yeah I was thinking about how much the trades likely affected the overall quality of the team. Several of the pieces that were moved weren't exactly lighting the world on fire. Clement provided a lot of the value that IKF did as a Blue Jay, losing Kiermaier was likely a net positive given how poorly he hit this season, trading Kikuchi opened a spot for Francis who was a revelation out of the pen etc. At any rate the team was running a lot of rookies in the last few months who didn't necessarily fully deserve MLB playing time (guys like Loperfido, Del Los Santos, Berroa and others) and this absolutely cost the teams the chance for more victories. They actually went on a bit of a run in August based on the offense heating up but after guys like Bo and Varsho were completely finished for the season the offense completely ground to a halt.

 

Meh, the win total at this point really doesn't matter, 74 wins vs ...79? Next year's team would still have the same deficiencies so may as well play anyone and everyone that might be able to help out in any of those areas.

 

I think they largely succeeded in that goal

[max silver]

Meh, the win total at this point really doesn't matter, 74 wins vs ...79? Next year's team would still have the same deficiencies so may as well play anyone and everyone that might be able to help out in any of those areas.

 

I think they largely succeeded in that goal

 

Yeah I agree fully. It was the perfect opportunity to allow some of these guys to get their feet wet and see if there were any pleasant surprises among the bunch of MLB ready prospects. It's a shame that Orelvis was busted for Clomiphene as this would have been a great chance for him to get his first taste of MLB pitching. It's generally taken him repeating a level in the upper minors before he fully hit his stride and I suspect he'll have the same type of challenges initially in MLB. It's a bit of a blessing in disguise to finish with fewer wins given the chance to pick higher in the draft while enjoying the increase in budget that comes along with the higher draft slots.

[Stangstag]

When did this happen lol

 

 

Loll dude was ahead of his time

[jaysblue]

When did this happen lol

 

 

Is that Spanky?

[Barrelsandbombs]

More firings on the big club coaching staff.

 

 

Ben Nicholson-Smith and Arden Zwelling had previously reported on the At The Letters podcast they heard Jeff Ware was involved in the search to find Cory Popham's replacement along with Pete Walker. The Ware firing will likely be framed as a surprise firing.

[Laika]

If Shapiro, Atkins, Schneider, and Mattingly and Walker all stay and they just fire lower level staff... it's such a LAME look.

 

Like, the front office still has all these Executives and Directors who at this point are maybe returning? You would assume they would be because if the heads or secondary heads were getting chopped off they would have started there.

 

Tony Lacava: Senior Vice President, Player Personnel

Andrew Tinnish: Vice President, International Scouting & Baseball Operations

James Click: Vice President, Baseball Strategy

Joe Sheehan: Assistant General Manager

Michael Murov: Assistant General Manager

Sanjay Choudhury: Director, Baseball Research

Jeremy Reesor: Director, Baseball Operations

 

 

Jeff Ware's title was "Assistant Pitching Coach - Bullpen"

Gil Kim is about as significant as the bullpen catcher.

[glory]

The only way for real change is chopping off the head, which is Shapiro. Until that happens I think this is the GM and coaching staff the team is stuck with. At least Hague seemed to have success with the Buffalo guys and might be an improvement in a bigger role.

[Brownie19]

The only way for real change is chopping off the head, which is Shapiro. Until that happens I think this is the GM and coaching staff the team is stuck with. At least Hague seemed to have success with the Buffalo guys and might be an improvement in a bigger role.

 

I'm not sure I agree. Shapiro can fire Atkins and try another GM. It's not like that would be abnormal.

 

Would you like to see them fire Shapiro now, replace most of the staff and start the rebuild? Do you think that's the best direction for the franchise? Do you think that would impact our ability to resign Vlad (and/or Bo)?

[Doubleplay21]

The smartest thing is fire Atkins, but that's not happening. Shapiro knows the Toronto fans love baseball and having a picnic in the stands is just as good as winning.

Win or lose fans will attend.

[Terminator]

The smartest thing is fire Atkins, but that's not happening. Shapiro knows the Toronto fans love baseball and having a picnic in the stands is just as good as winning.

Win or lose fans will attend.

 

Games at RC are kind of turning into a summer pre-game event. Reminds me of Rockies games where they get a lot of female attendance.

 

I think the days of completely empty stadiums are gone for the foreseeable future. Shapiro probably has a lot of rope because of this.

[Stangstag]

I'm not sure I agree. Shapiro can fire Atkins and try another GM. It's not like that would be abnormal.

 

Would you like to see them fire Shapiro now, replace most of the staff and start the rebuild? Do you think that's the best direction for the franchise? Do you think that would impact our ability to resign Vlad (and/or Bo)?

 

It really depends on how involved Shapiro actually is with the baseball decisions, development, etc.

 

Like is Shapiro there in the draft meetings discussing potential picks?? Obviously he’s a part of discussing big free agents like Soto and others… but like is Shapiro sitting there dissecting the numbers on a potential IKF signing, or calling GMs to see what trades are available?

 

If the answer to all those questions is YES, then firing him would certainly make a difference