General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Olerud363]

Casas is not out for the year, he is swinging a bat now

 

 

Casas comes back and hits like Daubach for a month (because of sore rib)

 

Vlad continues to hit like roided Barry Bonds for 1 month

 

Vlad hitting .310 .380 .540 and looks like the legend he was suppose to be

 

Mayer/Cassas/Teal for Guerrero + other things red sox need.

 

Just kind of thinking through the "what if". What if Guerrero is a Pujols temporarilly trapped in a -2 degree launch angle body but gets freed?

 

What would he be worth if GMs believed he was freed and evaluated him with his minor league numbers, 2021 numbers and June/July 2024 numbers ?

 

(And from the Blue Jays perspective you want everyone to believe the narative of Vlad the legend if you are trying to trade him... )

 

Vlad - 4 time all star, 2nd place MVP, greatest minor league hitter ever, homerun derbie champion. 118 mph max velocity, 80 grade power, 80 grade hit tool. Top 3 in mlb exit velocity, launch angle fixed!

[Masterbather]

If it takes three more years for the Jays to get back into contention there are worse things than a 28 year old Vlad playing first base. He's staying.

 

...and definitely not going to Boston. That's gross.

This is not a 3-year project. We are starting with almost nothing except whatever we get back in trades and Vlad is the most important trade chip.

 

Besides do you think he wants to be part of a rebuild? And it doesn't get mentioned much anymore but he still not committed to being in great shape as a baseball player. He'll be a not in great shape 30-year-old with the security blanket of a big contract.

 

I will say that making a trade within the division is a very difficult thing to do and most GMs don't have the balls to try it.

[Omar]

Let's say he re-establishes himself as a top 3 hitter, or close enough a team thinks they can get him there.

 

Here are the teams that can get him

 

1. LA - already set at DH and 1b

2. Yankees - he hates them?

3. Boston - Cassas is there but... Devers/Guerrero = Ortiz/Ramirez (if Guerrero back)

4. Toronto - total s*** show of a franchise and maybe this has run it's course

5. Philadelphia - maybe

6. Atlanta - already set? Maybe AA finds a way to get him back

7. Baltimore - set to be a great franchise and will probably spend before long, but freak park not a fit for Vlad.

 

You forgot Seattle. We could get Lazaro Montes plus maybe an arm for the pen? Still wouldn't make the deal though.

[Omar]

This is not a 3-year project. We are starting with almost nothing except whatever we get back in trades and Vlad is the most important trade chip.

 

Besides do you think he wants to be part of a rebuild? And it doesn't get mentioned much anymore but he still not committed to being in great shape as a baseball player. He'll be a not in great shape 30-year-old with the security blanket of a big contract.

 

I will say that making a trade within the division is a very difficult thing to do and most GMs don't have the balls to try it.

 

We are talking retool not rebuild from the ground up. Even so, a lot can happen in three years.

[glory]

Anyone who thinks this team is going on any rebuild, much less one that is intentionally greater than 3 years in length, is going to be disappointed. The last time Rogers was ok with an intentional tank was 2019 when they were literally forced to due to how bad the team was, and then right after that season ended they went and got Ryu and others in an effort to become respectable and/or expedite being competitive. They are not going nuclear and trading Vlad, Bo, Gausman, etc, to hit rock bottom. Maybe that's the smart baseball decision to concede the next 3+ years and sell assets now, but it's not the way Rogers is going to operate.

 

If Vlad wants no part of an extension, then I do think trading him has to be done, but if he's open to it, then I get the sense he'll get an extension that will make posters here squirm when they see the final number.

[Laika]

Let's say he re-establishes himself as a top 3 hitter, or close enough a team thinks they can get him there.

 

Here are the teams that can get him

 

1. LA - already set at DH and 1b

2. Yankees - he hates them?

3. Boston - Cassas is there but... Devers/Guerrero = Ortiz/Ramirez (if Guerrero back)

4. Toronto - total s*** show of a franchise and maybe this has run it's course

5. Philadelphia - maybe

6. Atlanta - already set? Maybe AA finds a way to get him back

7. Baltimore - set to be a great franchise and will probably spend before long, but freak park not a fit for Vlad.

 

If he's available most teams in baseball would consider acquiring and extending

 

Imagine him in Detroit or Pittsburgh for example. Peak Vlad would be a good fit for those young lineups. Houston would be all over him as well.

[xposbrad]

This is not a 3-year project. We are starting with almost nothing except whatever we get back in trades and Vlad is the most important trade chip.

 

Besides do you think he wants to be part of a rebuild? And it doesn't get mentioned much anymore but he still not committed to being in great shape as a baseball player. He'll be a not in great shape 30-year-old with the security blanket of a big contract.

 

I will say that making a trade within the division is a very difficult thing to do and most GMs don't have the balls to try it.

 

It's a 3-5 year project. They need 3-4 years of high drafting alone, then waiting for those guys to come up. Trades aren't going to net too many top 50 prospects just because of what the Jays have now.

[Olerud363]

You forgot Seattle. We could get Lazaro Montes plus maybe an arm for the pen? Still wouldn't make the deal though.

 

Seattle could be an option. I didn't mention them because hitters sometimes don't like to go there because of visibility and dead air... I'm thinking to maximize return it should be a place Vlad would sign long term.

 

Mets maybe too?

[Masterbather]

We are talking retool not rebuild from the ground up. Even so, a lot can happen in three years.

 

How is this a retool? What the hell do we have to retool with? If there was ever an example of an organization that needs a ground-up rebuild, this is it.

[Spanky99]

I'm at a buddies cottage, no GDT? You guys are sad, man. Go Jays Go... f*** the Yankees.

[John_Havok]

How is this a retool? What the hell do we have to retool with? If there was ever an example of an organization that needs a ground-up rebuild, this is it.

 

Rogers needs the Jays to be semi-relevant every year. A scorched earth rebuild will not happen.

[Masterbather]

Rogers needs the Jays to be semi-relevant every year. A scorched earth rebuild will not happen.

 

Once again I don't work for Rogers, if they want to insult the fans' intelligence, you are correct, they could probably get away with it, there's a lot of stupid fans. In fact I would suggest most fans are really really stupid.

 

Scorched earth is what this s*** needs though.

[John_Havok]

Once again I don't work for Rogers, if they want to insult the fans' intelligence, you are correct, they could probably get away with it, there's a lot of stupid fans. In fact I would suggest most fans are really really stupid.

 

Scorched earth is what this s*** needs though.

 

No it doesn't. The only reason small markets do it is because their owners are cheap *******s that never sign even above average players to FA deals. They tank because they have to. Toronto doesn't have to.

[Masterbather]

No it doesn't. The only reason small markets do it is because their owners are cheap *******s that never sign even above average players to FA deals. They tank because they have to. Toronto doesn't have to.

They have no prospects. You have to get rid of anyone on the roster that has value and get back some prospects. The entire coaching staff needs to f*** off as well. So does the front office and scouting department and any other nerd that is responsible for our failed development. That's about as scorched earth as it gets. I don't know how our situation gets fixed any other way. Money isn't going to fix this.

[Spanky99]

lol... this clown.

[L54]

lol... this clown.

 

Lol…. 🙄

[L54]

They have no prospects. You have to get rid of anyone on the roster that has value and get back some prospects. The entire coaching staff needs to f*** off as well. So does the front office and scouting department and any other nerd that is responsible for our failed development. That's about as scorched earth as it gets. I don't know how our situation gets fixed any other way. Money isn't going to fix this.

 

I tend to agree with you more than the others. I don’t think this is a problem you can just throw money at. There needs to be an overhaul of the entire organization. They’ve tried to do it by outspending most and look where it’s gotten us

 

I’m looking to extend Vlad, but if they know they don’t want to pay the price (because let’s be honest they know what it will take) then you gotta end the relationship and move on

[G-Snarls]

I'm legit worried about Gausman

 

He'll have a decent game or two then get pounded repeatedly

[L54]

I'm legit worried about Gausman

 

He'll have a decent game or two then get pounded repeatedly

 

It’s so tough to survive with two pitches no matter which two they are

 

The splitter whiffs are way down and the fastball is getting rocked

 

Not a great recipe at age 33

[John_Havok]

It’s so tough to survive with two pitches no matter which two they are

 

The splitter whiffs are way down and the fastball is getting rocked

 

Not a great recipe at age 33

 

I'd have to dig in a bit, but I suspect that it's the same type of issue as when he's had trouble in the past.

 

Today's game I never saw many effectively located fastballs at the bottom of the zone which pretty much allows any hitter to let any splitters go. The old "if it's low let it go" approach.

[L54]

I'd have to dig in a bit, but I suspect that it's the same type of issue as when he's had trouble in the past.

 

Today's game I never saw many effectively located fastballs at the bottom of the zone which pretty much allows any hitter to let any splitters go. The old "if it's low let it go" approach.

 

Feels as simple as that

 

If he can’t pound the bottom of the zone with fastballs then it’s too easy for hitters to spit on the splitter and look for the heater up

 

I’m not going to dig into anything but damn does it suck that his value is sinking hard rn

[BigCecil]

I tend to agree with you more than the others. I don’t think this is a problem you can just throw money at. There needs to be an overhaul of the entire organization. They’ve tried to do it by outspending most and look where it’s gotten us

 

I’m looking to extend Vlad, but if they know they don’t want to pay the price (because let’s be honest they know what it will take) then you gotta end the relationship and move on

 

When their drafting and development failed they pivoted and threw FA money at the team to catch the window, which half ass worked. Now you deal with the back half of the deals for Springer, Gausman and Berrios, and the consequences. I don’t think you will see Berrios take his opt out after 2026 season.

[John_Havok]

Feels as simple as that

 

If he can’t pound the bottom of the zone with fastballs then it’s too easy for hitters to spit on the splitter and look for the heater up

 

I’m not going to dig into anything but damn does it suck that his value is sinking hard rn

 

I checked the zone map for him today and that's pretty much the case ...today anyway. Maybe only 6 or 7 fastballs in the bottom third of the zone, a ton were left up.

 

His splitters locations were pretty much exactly where he'd want them, but as you indicated, without yhe consistent fastball, easy to lay off.

[Olerud363]

Looks like Vlad got his hand beat up.... We'll have to see if his performance craters the next couple of months but it wouldn't surprise me...

 

1. We've seen this before. Good hitter, get's the hand hammered, no DL, X-rays negative but performance goes down for a couple months.

2. It's the 2024 Blue Jays, just when you can dream getting a really good prospect or two for our newly rejuvenated 25 year old generational hitter, something bad has to happen.

 

Prediction Vlad goes .200 .250 .290 until trade deadline because of micro injuries to hand, and has no trade value. Will be ready to mash when Red Sox get him in 2026, but they get him for a 3 / 30 or something and Jays don't even risk a compensation offer.

 

It's the Blue Jays you know it's headed there.

 

Vlad

2024 - .260 18 80 (today's hand injury f***s the rest of the year up)

2025 - .272 22 85 (depression, obesity, hand injury, bored of Jays) no qualifying offer Red Sox sign him 3/30

2026 .355 45 128 for Red Sox, happy, healthy, and ready for a 15 year run of joy

[Masterbather]

Looks like Vlad got his hand beat up.... We'll have to see if his performance craters the next couple of months but it wouldn't surprise me...

 

1. We've seen this before. Good hitter, get's the hand hammered, no DL, X-rays negative but performance goes down for a couple months.

2. It's the 2024 Blue Jays, just when you can dream getting a really good prospect or two for our newly rejuvenated 25 year old generational hitter, something bad has to happen.

 

Prediction Vlad goes .200 .250 .290 until trade deadline because of micro injuries to hand, and has no trade value. Will be ready to mash when Red Sox get him in 2026, but they get him for a 3 / 30 or something and Jays don't even risk a compensation offer.

 

It's the Blue Jays you know it's headed there.

 

Vlad

2024 - .260 18 80 (today's hand injury f***s the rest of the year up)

2025 - .272 22 85 (depression, obesity, hand injury, bored of Jays) no qualifying offer Red Sox sign him 3/30

2026 .355 45 128 for Red Sox, happy, healthy, and ready for a 15 year run of joy

You might actually end up being spot on.

[Stangstag]

Looks like Vlad got his hand beat up.... We'll have to see if his performance craters the next couple of months but it wouldn't surprise me...

 

1. We've seen this before. Good hitter, get's the hand hammered, no DL, X-rays negative but performance goes down for a couple months.

2. It's the 2024 Blue Jays, just when you can dream getting a really good prospect or two for our newly rejuvenated 25 year old generational hitter, something bad has to happen.

 

Prediction Vlad goes .200 .250 .290 until trade deadline because of micro injuries to hand, and has no trade value. Will be ready to mash when Red Sox get him in 2026, but they get him for a 3 / 30 or something and Jays don't even risk a compensation offer.

 

It's the Blue Jays you know it's headed there.

 

Vlad

2024 - .260 18 80 (today's hand injury f***s the rest of the year up)

2025 - .272 22 85 (depression, obesity, hand injury, bored of Jays) no qualifying offer Red Sox sign him 3/30

2026 .355 45 128 for Red Sox, happy, healthy, and ready for a 15 year run of joy

 

You’ve truly lost your marbles

[Carlos Danger]

It appears every AL WC team ahead of the Jays has won or will win today.

 

I really hope the FO is still not at the let’s wait and see point. Even if they have a great next 25 days. That is a SSS compared to the body of work we have seen in a full season and a half. Plus with our current BP situation.

 

No just the tip. Balls in!!

[max silver]

It appears every AL WC team ahead of the Jays has won or will win today.

 

I really hope the FO is still not at the let’s wait and see point. Even if they have a great next 25 days. That is a SSS compared to the body of work we have seen in a full season and a half. Plus with our current BP situation.

 

No just the tip. Balls in!!

 

What does last year's team have to do with the monstrosity that is the 2024 edition of the Blue Jays? That was a very solid team whose primary Achilles heel was an inability to score runs at home as they were very good to great at everything else. This year's team is awful in every regard.

[Stangstag]

It appears every AL WC team ahead of the Jays has won or will win today.

 

I really hope the FO is still not at the let’s wait and see point. Even if they have a great next 25 days. That is a SSS compared to the body of work we have seen in a full season and a half. Plus with our current BP situation.

 

No just the tip. Balls in!!

 

At this point, they should start entertaining/feeling out trades and be preparing to get rid of anyone entering free agency after the season.

 

Only way they should even consider “holding” or “buying” is if the team goes on a 15 game win streak.

[glory]

I can’t imagine Kikuchi, Garcia, Jansen, Turner, KK, and Richards is going to lead to enough talent coming back to mean anything, but hopefully there’s a Teoscar in one of those returns. But yeah, at the absolute minimum, trade the impending FAs and reset the luxury tax penalties. This team isn’t it. Move on. A Bichette trade would be good too (low performance and all) but I’m not getting my hopes up.