General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Spanky99]

I think they need to bank on something else like help from outside the organization if they want to make WC3.

 

Banking on Springer, KK and Turner still is ridiculous and it was ridiculous even before the season started.

 

Turner?

[Olerud363]

I think they need to bank on something else like help from outside the organization if they want to make WC3.

 

Banking on Springer, KK and Turner still is ridiculous and it was ridiculous even before the season started.

 

It's time to make a bold decision. Consider trading everyone over 24. Not just Bassitt, Gausman, Kikuchi, Jansen. Everyone. Varsh, Jansen, Kirk, Guerrero, Bo, Spencer Horwitz, Barger.

 

You want an advanced performance analytics genius department? Let's do some simple math.

 

Players peak at 27. The year is 2024. Lets aim for a new fun happy joyful team in 2027. So only 2 sad years to go. And those years can be spent watching the 2027 crew.

 

In 2027 the key players should be 24 or younger. Meaning they are 21 now.

 

Players who are 24 now are too old.

 

They could be the Orioles in 2027, without 5 last place seasons. They could do it in 3. Need to trade everyone in the next month though. Complete dramatic rebuild of the organization. Coillect a wild number of young players, currently 21 or younger, through trades, draft, international.

 

The greatest quickest rebuild ever. Make it happen. Fire Shapiro. Fire Atkins. Hire a 33 year old maniac who loves the Jays more than his family, more than money, more than cocaine and hookers, and make sure his IQ is above 140 and he has street sense, then leterRIP!!!!!!!!!

[DigitalRock]

The AL East is going to eat this team alive

[Jimcanuck]

It's time to make a bold decision. Consider trading everyone over 24. Not just Bassitt, Gausman, Kikuchi, Jansen. Everyone. Varsh, Jansen, Kirk, Guerrero, Bo, Spencer Horwitz, Barger.

 

You want an advanced performance analytics genius department? Let's do some simple math.

 

Players peak at 27. The year is 2024. Lets aim for a new fun happy joyful team in 2027. So only 2 sad years to go. And those years can be spent watching the 2027 crew.

 

In 2027 the key players should be 24 or younger. Meaning they are 21 now.

 

Players who are 24 now are too old.

 

They could be the Orioles in 2027, without 5 last place seasons. They could do it in 3. Need to trade everyone in the next month though. Complete dramatic rebuild of the organization. Coillect a wild number of young players, currently 21 or younger, through trades, draft, international.

 

The greatest quickest rebuild ever. Make it happen. Fire Shapiro. Fire Atkins. Hire a 33 year old maniac who loves the Jays more than his family, more than money, more than cocaine and hookers, and make sure his IQ is above 140 and he has street sense, then leterRIP!!!!!!!!!

 

100%

[Brownie19]

Turner?

 

We had a 50-60% chance of making the playoffs when the season started. It's easy to just point at the results and scream that everything sucks. Especially when it fits people's initial concerns.

 

The bullpen has been as bad, if not worse than the lineup...I don't remember the board experts voicing their concerns about that before the season.

[Laika]

It's time to make a bold decision. Consider trading everyone over 24. Not just Bassitt, Gausman, Kikuchi, Jansen. Everyone. Varsh, Jansen, Kirk, Guerrero, Bo, Spencer Horwitz, Barger.

 

You want an advanced performance analytics genius department? Let's do some simple math.

 

Players peak at 27. The year is 2024. Lets aim for a new fun happy joyful team in 2027. So only 2 sad years to go. And those years can be spent watching the 2027 crew.

 

In 2027 the key players should be 24 or younger. Meaning they are 21 now.

 

Players who are 24 now are too old.

 

They could be the Orioles in 2027, without 5 last place seasons. They could do it in 3. Need to trade everyone in the next month though. Complete dramatic rebuild of the organization. Coillect a wild number of young players, currently 21 or younger, through trades, draft, international.

 

The greatest quickest rebuild ever. Make it happen. Fire Shapiro. Fire Atkins. Hire a 33 year old maniac who loves the Jays more than his family, more than money, more than cocaine and hookers, and make sure his IQ is above 140 and he has street sense, then leterRIP!!!!!!!!!

 

Unfortunately business considerations would prevent anything close to this from ever happening.

 

They just did all the new renovations, a $300M investment that needs to be paid down. Need some players to market. Need some butts in the new seats. Need some people watching on TV.

[Terminator]

The new playoff format is so expansive that with our payroll we should never fully rebuild.

 

Rebuilding is for poor teams who have to do it and it's not guaranteed to work anyway. Everyone calling for a rebuild just witnessed a team that had a generational prospect and several other young stars go through a full rebuild after the 2016 team and they now HATE the current product on the field. Another rebuild isn't guaranteed to go any better.

 

I guarantee you that if we make the playoffs 5-8 times each decade we will have some memorable playoff runs. Perhaps even a WS win.

[Jimcanuck]

The new playoff format is so expansive that with our payroll we should never fully rebuild.

 

Rebuilding is for poor teams who have to do it and it's not guaranteed to work anyway. Everyone calling for a rebuild just witnessed a team that had a generational prospect and several other young stars go through a full rebuild after the 2016 team and they now HATE the current product on the field. Another rebuild isn't guaranteed to go any better.

 

I guarantee you that if we make the playoffs 5-8 times each decade we will have some memorable playoff runs. Perhaps even a WS win.

 

Smart thing for the Jays to do is trade all their FA signings that have value, for prospects. That will free up a shitload of money to spend on new FA.

 

Bingo, same team WAR with a strengthened farm system.

[MikeM3]

The new playoff format is so expansive that with our payroll we should never fully rebuild.

 

Rebuilding is for poor teams who have to do it and it's not guaranteed to work anyway. Everyone calling for a rebuild just witnessed a team that had a generational prospect and several other young stars go through a full rebuild after the 2016 team and they now HATE the current product on the field. Another rebuild isn't guaranteed to go any better.

 

I guarantee you that if we make the playoffs 5-8 times each decade we will have some memorable playoff runs. Perhaps even a WS win.

 

You can trade vets then sign more in FA. Our whole team is built on FA signings anyways. What do you lose by trading Bassitt then signing another Bassitt

[G-Snarls]

We had a 50-60% chance of making the playoffs when the season started. It's easy to just point at the results and scream that everything sucks. Especially when it fits people's initial concerns.

 

The bullpen has been as bad, if not worse than the lineup...I don't remember the board experts voicing their concerns about that before the season.

 

I certainly thought the bullpen was going to be very good

[Olerud363]

The new playoff format is so expansive that with our payroll we should never fully rebuild.

 

Rebuilding is for poor teams who have to do it and it's not guaranteed to work anyway. Everyone calling for a rebuild just witnessed a team that had a generational prospect and several other young stars go through a full rebuild after the 2016 team and they now HATE the current product on the field. Another rebuild isn't guaranteed to go any better.

 

I guarantee you that if we make the playoffs 5-8 times each decade we will have some memorable playoff runs. Perhaps even a WS win.

 

But this rebuild would be exactly the model the 2017 rebuild was done by. It's kind of the model the Red Sox use. 2-3 down years and back really quick after that.

 

Re-align the timeline so the stars align in 2027 and use to payroll to supplement with new free agents starting in 2026. Get 3-5 years out of it.

 

This is the way to go if you really believe it is a 75 win team in 2025 no matter what. Maybe fool the Casuals. Sign Vlad to please them.

[Laika]

The new playoff format is so expansive that with our payroll we should never fully rebuild.

 

Rebuilding is for poor teams who have to do it and it's not guaranteed to work anyway. Everyone calling for a rebuild just witnessed a team that had a generational prospect and several other young stars go through a full rebuild after the 2016 team and they now HATE the current product on the field. Another rebuild isn't guaranteed to go any better.

 

I guarantee you that if we make the playoffs 5-8 times each decade we will have some memorable playoff runs. Perhaps even a WS win.

 

There are three levels of rebuild that Toronto could do:

 

Level 1 - the 2025 retool. Trade Kikuchi and Jansen. Trade Yimi if healthy. Try to get out of Turner, KK money. Consider trading Bassitt if there is a taker.

Then replace them all with new FA talent in the offseason.

 

Level 2 - the Vlad/Bo bailout - Trade all of the above along with Vlad and Bo. The same general plan applies, try to replace everybody with FA talent over the next couple of years, but the odds of winning in 2025 probably go down a lot here with the tradeoff being getting some possible cornerstone prospects back for the big guys.

 

Level 3 - scorched turf - do all of the above except for the FA reload. Get out of all big contracts, Guasman and Berrios are gone. Varsho gone. Kirk gone at some point. Pearson dumped. Consider trading some of the Buffalo guys even, if some other team really likes one of them. Some would be replaced with free agents but not all of them. Payroll takes a dive, luxury tax reset. Realistically no shot to compete for a couple of years.

[wilko]

There are three levels of rebuild that Toronto could do:

 

Level 1 - the 2025 retool. Trade Kikuchi and Jansen. Trade Yimi if healthy. Try to get out of Turner, KK money. Consider trading Bassitt if there is a taker.

Then replace them all with new FA talent in the offseason.

 

Level 2 - the Vlad/Bo bailout - Trade all of the above along with Vlad and Bo. The same general plan applies, try to replace everybody with FA talent over the next couple of years, but the odds of winning in 2025 probably go down a lot here with the tradeoff being getting some possible cornerstone prospects back for the big guys.

 

Level 3 - scorched turf - do all of the above except for the FA reload. Get out of all big contracts, Guasman and Berrios are gone. Varsho gone. Kirk gone at some point. Pearson dumped. Consider trading some of the Buffalo guys even, if some other team really likes one of them. Some would be replaced with free agents but not all of them. Payroll takes a dive, luxury tax reset. Realistically no shot to compete for a couple of years.

 

The most realistic one would be Level 1. Especially if they keep Atkins around. They won't go full scorched turf just after upgrading the concrete jungle.

[Laika]

The most realistic one would be Level 1. Especially if they keep Atkins around. They won't go full scorched turf just after upgrading the concrete jungle.

 

hard to even see them considering #2 either

 

Atkins and Shapiro will sell snake oil to the board of directors

 

"we understand and appreciate that the product on the field was not as good as we all hoped for in 2024. we have a lot of internal information that points towards things getting better, much better, for most of the returning players who underperformed. we feel very strongly that, based on the processes we have in place, the people we have in place, the talent that we have up and down the organization and within the front office, things will turn around in 2025. and we will continue to implement and iterate on our approach to free agency and roster construction. we continue to have productive trade conversations aimed towards improving the team in every way - not just offense, but pitching, defense, baserunning, and the bullpen. our development systems and resources continue to add value to the organization in many ways. we are exploring every facet of the game searching for optimizations and improvements and feel very strongly that with one more year the fruits of all of this will be obvious."

[Terminator]

I could see them trading guys from level 1 and then also trading Bo to make it a level 1.5 rebuild on Laika's official trade deadline sell chart. I don't think it's likely on Bo but it is possible.

[Jimcanuck]

Hate selling low on Bo. JD all over again

[Stangstag]

hard to even see them considering #2 either

 

Atkins and Shapiro will sell snake oil to the board of directors

 

"we understand and appreciate that the product on the field was not as good as we all hoped for in 2024. we have a lot of internal information that points towards things getting better, much better, for most of the returning players who underperformed. we feel very strongly that, based on the processes we have in place, the people we have in place, the talent that we have up and down the organization and within the front office, things will turn around in 2025. and we will continue to implement and iterate on our approach to free agency and roster construction. we continue to have productive trade conversations aimed towards improving the team in every way - not just offense, but pitching, defense, baserunning, and the bullpen. our development systems and resources continue to add value to the organization in many ways. we are exploring every facet of the game searching for optimizations and improvements and feel very strongly that with one more year the fruits of all of this will be obvious."

 

Can they use the same BS argument 2 years in a row though?

[Stangstag]

Hate selling low on Bo. JD all over again

 

Yeah agree. Selling Bo during his worst season yet would be extremely dumb

[Laika]

Can they use the same BS argument 2 years in a row though?

 

absolutely

[max silver]

Yeah agree. Selling Bo during his worst season yet would be extremely dumb

 

Depends on the potential return. If Bo is valued as a buy low asset by other GM's who want to poach him for pennies on the dollar you have to hang onto the guy, but if someone wants to pay the requisite price for a consistent 4-5 win player you have to consider it.

[Terminator]

Who knows maybe he comes back this weekend and goes on a heater for a month and it's not selling low at that point

[Stangstag]

Who knows maybe he comes back this weekend and goes on a heater for a month and it's not selling low at that point

 

Best case scenario

[DonJays]

Unfortunately business considerations would prevent anything close to this from ever happening.

 

They just did all the new renovations, a $300M investment that needs to be paid down. Need some players to market. Need some butts in the new seats. Need some people watching on TV.

 

Yes, the video game GM’s are so irritating. That’s isn’t how pro sports works. Ever

[glory]

Yeah agree. Selling Bo during his worst season yet would be extremely dumb

 

The problem is he only has 1.5 years of control left, and there's no guarantee that he ever bounces back to what he was. I know that's crazy to say about someone his age, but his offensive profile is incredibly volatile. He doesn't draw walks and relies a lot on BABIP/contact. Players like that can fall off unexpectedly. Maybe this is just an extended cold stretch for Bo and only a matter of time before he bounces back, but I wouldn't be against trading him now depending on the return. The extra year of control, especially if the acquiring team thinks they can fix him, is probably enough to not get a completely s***** offer, if not a good one.

 

The biggest reason to hold on to Bo is you don't want Atkins being the one trading him. Otherwise I'd have no issues with it.

[glory]

There are three levels of rebuild that Toronto could do:

 

Level 1 - the 2025 retool. Trade Kikuchi and Jansen. Trade Yimi if healthy. Try to get out of Turner, KK money. Consider trading Bassitt if there is a taker.

Then replace them all with new FA talent in the offseason.

 

Level 2 - the Vlad/Bo bailout - Trade all of the above along with Vlad and Bo. The same general plan applies, try to replace everybody with FA talent over the next couple of years, but the odds of winning in 2025 probably go down a lot here with the tradeoff being getting some possible cornerstone prospects back for the big guys.

 

Level 3 - scorched turf - do all of the above except for the FA reload. Get out of all big contracts, Guasman and Berrios are gone. Varsho gone. Kirk gone at some point. Pearson dumped. Consider trading some of the Buffalo guys even, if some other team really likes one of them. Some would be replaced with free agents but not all of them. Payroll takes a dive, luxury tax reset. Realistically no shot to compete for a couple of years.

 

As long as Shapiro is employed by this team, it will be Level 1. Trade all the impending FAs, slide back under the luxury tax to reset the penalties, and try again in 2025. As others have said that may not even be the worst thing to do with the expanded playoff format, but they would just be delaying the inevitable. Unless Atkins can get massive hauls for Kikuchi, Jansen, Garcia, etc. I'm not holding my breath on that.

[Jimcanuck]

The problem is he only has 1.5 years of control left, and there's no guarantee that he ever bounces back to what he was. I know that's crazy to say about someone his age, but his offensive profile is incredibly volatile. He doesn't draw walks and relies a lot on BABIP/contact. Players like that can fall off unexpectedly. Maybe this is just an extended cold stretch for Bo and only a matter of time before he bounces back, but I wouldn't be against trading him now depending on the return. The extra year of control, especially if the acquiring team thinks they can fix him, is probably enough to not get a completely s***** offer, if not a good one.

 

The biggest reason to hold on to Bo is you don't want Atkins being the one trading him. Otherwise I'd have no issues with it.

 

Atkins has been very strong with trades. It's drafting and development where he and his FO have fallen short.

[Jimcanuck]

Why little mention of Gausman as a trade chip? He's the first guy I'd trade if Level 1 is activated.

[glory]

Atkins has been very strong with trades. It's drafting and development where he and his FO have fallen short.

 

When he's trading a prospect for a veteran, he's good. When he's trading a veteran for a prospect, that's when it gets dicey.

[Jonn]

Anyone else think its really f***ing dumb that they called up O-Mart only to sit him for 3 straight days?

[bluejaysinternNo5]

Anyone else think its really f***ing dumb that they called up O-Mart only to sit him for 3 straight days?

 

Yes