General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Stangstag]

23 games to the midpoint of the season, not that far behind but fighting with numerous other teams for that final wc spot

 

 

Not a pretty picture

[Carlos Danger]

Don't see it. At least with Vlad he has been very very open with wanting an extension and to stay in Toronto for good

 

Probably would take a super monster haul to trade either at this point and not seeing who would even be willing to come close

 

True, but he is not going to play for free or on a short term deal. He might not get close to what he was/is anticipating. His agent and MLPA won’t allow him to give some sweet heart deal even if Vlad want’s to.

[hanton]

Not a pretty picture

 

with the number of teams ahead of us yea.....

[Terminator]

There's no way all those AL Central teams finish with 90+ wins.

 

The Rangers, despite the playoff run last year, are about neck and neck with us the past couple of years. The Astros are behind us but any miraculous run from them knocks the Rangers and the Mariners back.

 

The Rays and Red Sox don't seem that great either.

 

Seems like 86 wins could be enough for WC3 this year. One good month and a couple of .500 months and we are there.

[Masterbather]

There's no way all those AL Central teams finish with 90+ wins.

 

The Rangers, despite the playoff run last year, are about neck and neck with us the past couple of years. The Astros are behind us but any miraculous run from them knocks the Rangers and the Mariners back.

 

The Rays and Red Sox don't seem that great either.

 

Seems like 86 wins could be enough for WC3 this year. One good month and a couple of .500 months and we are there.

 

What part of this team isn't good enough don't you understand? What is the point of sneaking into the third wild card, which is unlikely for this team anyway, if the team can't beat anyone good?

 

It's not worth the opportunity cost of getting some much needed assets.

[Terminator]

What part of this team isn't good enough don't you understand? What is the point of sneaking into the third wild card, which is unlikely for this team anyway, if the team can't beat anyone good?

 

It's not worth the opportunity cost of getting some much needed assets.

 

Well let's see where we are at the ASB. It's too early to throw in the towel with definitive statements like that.

 

A good June and this team could be in the lead for a WC spot. If we continue to suck, then it will be time for a rebuild/re-tool.

 

Plus, you STILL seem to think that mediocre WC teams can't go on playoff runs. You tried telling me the D-Backs were some sort of special 84-win team last year. After their horrible start this year it's obvious that nothing is great about them, they just got lucky. If you get in you can go on a run with a little bit of luck. The team that won it all was a 90-win Wild Card team who is under .500 this year. They weren't anything special either they just got hot at the right time.

[hanton]

I really hope JS runs with this exact line-up for the next few games (vs rodriquez, burnes and suarez) kk, biggio and clement can stay on the bench

 

on another note....vlady and bo aren't on the block

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/06/jays-gm-ross-atkins-trading-guerrero-bichette-doesnt-make-any-sense-for-us.html

 

would Atkins even admit it if they were?

[hanton]

https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/video/ross-atkins-on-the-blue-jays-future?partnerId=web_video-playback-page_video-share

[Carlos Danger]

Well let's see where we are at the ASB. It's too early to throw in the towel with definitive statements like that.

 

A good June and this team could be in the lead for a WC spot. If we continue to suck, then it will be time for a rebuild/re-tool.

 

Plus, you STILL seem to think that mediocre WC teams can't go on playoff runs. You tried telling me the D-Backs were some sort of special 84-win team last year. After their horrible start this year it's obvious that nothing is great about them, they just got lucky. If you get in you can go on a run with a little bit of luck. The team that won it all was a 90-win Wild Card team who is under .500 this year. They weren't anything special either they just got hot at the right time.

 

Like AA says, we need to look at run differential as we get closer to the dead line.

 

*Also don’t let huge runs put up against Nastrani (AA pitcher) X2 plus the emergency last minute call up from AAA fool you.

[Masterbather]

Well let's see where we are at the ASB. It's too early to throw in the towel with definitive statements like that.

 

A good June and this team could be in the lead for a WC spot. If we continue to suck, then it will be time for a rebuild/re-tool.

 

Plus, you STILL seem to think that mediocre WC teams can't go on playoff runs. You tried telling me the D-Backs were some sort of special 84-win team last year. After their horrible start this year it's obvious that nothing is great about them, they just got lucky. If you get in you can go on a run with a little bit of luck. The team that won it all was a 90-win Wild Card team who is under .500 this year. They weren't anything special either they just got hot at the right time.

 

The D-Backs weren't special, but they were clearly better than us and clearly better equipped to go on a run and they did.

 

You continue to ignore the opportunity cost of a pointless wild card run. You aren't being realistic about this teams chances, and unfortunately, the front office doesn't appear to be either.

[mikepelfrey]

This team is not making any kind of run. For Gods sake they’re putting Vlad back at 3rd, haven’t we already determined the guy can’t play 3rd? Bichette belongs at 2nd, So the front office believes that the entire right side of the infield needs to be the Worst possible combination for the pitching staff that is the strongest part of the team….. could they be any more clueless.

 

I swear they ONLY care about selling tickets and as long they can fool folks to keep doing that, that’s all they really care about.

[Barrelsandbombs]

If Vladdy can even play a semi passable 3rd I think we see a Horwitz call up and a Biggio option.

 

I think Biggio has passed the 5 year service time mark. Before the season started he was at 4y129d so 43 service days away from 5 years. Someone correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not exactly sure how service days are counted, but I'm pretty sure it's been 43 service days already.

[Terminator]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/?date=2023-06-02

 

Standings this time last year.

 

Phillies were 7 games under .500. They ended up winning 90 games and a WC spot. They finished the year one game away from making the WS.

 

Yankees were 9 games over .500 and didn't even make the playoffs. Rays looked like they might put together an all-time great season and faded in the WC round.

 

It's a long season is my point.

[BTS]

Plus, you STILL seem to think that mediocre WC teams can't go on playoff runs. You tried telling me the D-Backs were some sort of special 84-win team last year. After their horrible start this year it's obvious that nothing is great about them, they just got lucky. If you get in you can go on a run with a little bit of luck. The team that won it all was a 90-win Wild Card team who is under .500 this year. They weren't anything special either they just got hot at the right time.

 

I'm just thankful that we don't get daily Moreno and Gurriel updates anymore

[Terminator]

The D-Backs weren't special, but they were clearly better than us and clearly better equipped to go on a run and they did.

 

They aren't a very good team. I know you can't admit it because you went all in on this theory that the playoffs don't involve luck/randomness/hot streaks or whatever you want to call it but it was obvious that they were getting some extremely fortunate play (Moreno has 9 career homers in over 600 plate appearances, he had 4 in 63 ABs last year, for example) from guys that were unlikely to do so. And if you admit that they suck (and frankly they are probably one of the worst teams to ever make the playoffs) then you have to admit that the Jays could make a run as WC3 which would prove your arguments over the past few months wrong.

 

You continue to ignore the opportunity cost of a pointless wild card run. You aren't being realistic about this teams chances, and unfortunately, the front office doesn't appear to be either.

 

If we continue to suck ass at the ASB, which is certainly possible, then we should sell. Not sure what opportunity costs I'm missing out on by not throwing in the towel now.

[Eat My Shatkins]

People can't seem to grasp that all these 100 win super teams combined for 1 playoff win last year and a 90 win and a 84 win team duked it out for the championship.

 

And that s*** happens a lot.

[Stangstag]

I'm just thankful that we don't get daily Moreno and Gurriel updates anymore

 

Not until they have a really good 2 week stretch and Varsho hits a slump

[Masterbather]

They aren't a very good team. I know you can't admit it because you went all in on this theory that the playoffs don't involve luck/randomness/hot streaks or whatever you want to call it but it was obvious that they were getting some extremely fortunate play (Moreno has 9 career homers in over 600 plate appearances, he had 4 in 63 ABs last year, for example) from guys that were unlikely to do so. And if you admit that they suck (and frankly they are probably one of the worst teams to ever make the playoffs) then you have to admit that the Jays could make a run as WC3 which would prove your arguments over the past few months wrong.

 

 

 

If we continue to suck ass at the ASB, which is certainly possible, then we should sell. Not sure what opportunity costs I'm missing out on by not throwing in the towel now.

The fact that you can't see that Arizona was clearly more talented I can't help you with, but putting Arizona aside, you're so focused on the win/loss record that you are losing sight of the more important point: it's about talent, frontline real deal talent. Who cares what our record is at the All-Star break? We don't have the talent and there's a real opportunity cost of chasing a worthless wild card spot and not getting assets that we desperately need. The 2021 Blue Jays were a great example of a team that should have done everything they can to chase that playoff spot because they had a f***load of talent, but this isn't that, I don't care what the record is, we can't get sucked in.

 

Don't worry though, you'll get your wish if we are anywhere close because this front office will sell out our future to save their ass no matter how obvious it is that this team ain't good enough.

[connorp]

Jays can’t hit for s***. They’ve padded their stats the last couple weeks against the s*** of s*** pitching. Otherwise the vast majority would be under .700 OPS. They don’t belong anywhere near a playoff field. Maybe it’ll change, we’ll see

[glory]

Atkins' motivations at this point are not aligned with the long term health of the team. Barring a miracle run, it makes all the sense in the world to move Bo and Vlad as part of a re-tool. But he can't do that.

 

Shatkins was in this exact same position around this time in 2017, an old team at the end of its competitive window coming off 3+ million in attendance the previous season. We saw what they did. They've either learned their lesson or they'll prove to be believers in the definition of insanity. I think we all know which direction they will choose.

[Terminator]

The fact that you can't see that Arizona was clearly more talented I can't help you with, but putting Arizona aside, you're so focused on the win/loss record that you are losing sight of the more important point: it's about talent, frontline real deal talent. Who cares what our record is at the All-Star break? We don't have the talent and there's a real opportunity cost of chasing a worthless wild card spot and not getting assets that we desperately need. The 2021 Blue Jays were a great example of a team that should have done everything they can to chase that playoff spot because they had a f***load of talent, but this isn't that, I don't care what the record is, we can't get sucked in.

 

Don't worry though, you'll get your wish if we are anywhere close because this front office will sell out our future to save their ass no matter how obvious it is that this team ain't good enough.

 

This is getting stupid so feel free to have the last word but you just talk completely out of your butt lol

 

If the D-Bags had "frontline real deal talent" to legitimately get them to the WS last year, then why is that "frontline real deal talent" producing a 27-32 record right now? It's basically the same team with a few pieces added.

 

It's because they were never that good to begin with and merely getting into the playoffs gives you a shot to advance no matter who you are.

[L54]

People can't seem to grasp that all these 100 win super teams combined for 1 playoff win last year and a 90 win and a 84 win team duked it out for the championship.

 

And that s*** happens a lot.

 

Rangers had the fourth highest run differential and a pythag record of like 98-64

[connorp]

This is getting stupid so feel free to have the last word but you just talk completely out of your butt lol

 

If the D-Bags had "frontline real deal talent" to legitimately get them to the WS last year, then why is that "frontline real deal talent" producing a 27-32 record right now? It's basically the same team with a few pieces added.

 

It's because they were never that good to begin with and merely getting into the playoffs gives you a shot to advance no matter who you are.

 

To start their best player, one of future players of mlb has been horrific. They also lost their #2 SP that was a big part of that success. Usually it’s the core 5 or 6 dudes that make you dangerous. They’re minus 2

[Eat My Shatkins]

Rangers had the fourth highest run differential and a pythag record of like 98-64

 

And the DBacks had a -15 run differential and a pythag record of 80-82

[Terminator]

To start their best player, one of future players of mlb has been horrific. They also lost their #2 SP that was a big part of that success. Usually it’s the core 5 or 6 dudes that make you dangerous. They’re minus 2

 

So all you need is 5 or 6 guys to be dangerous? Seems accurate enough.

 

It could be a guy with great prospect pedigree who shits the bed shortly after (Carroll) or a slap hitting Catcher who somehow starts hitting home runs for what is the first and maybe last time in his career (Moreno). Just get 5 or 6 guys to play hot at the right time and you're dangerous.

[connorp]

So all you need is 5 or 6 guys to be dangerous? Seems accurate enough.

 

It could be a guy with great prospect pedigree who shits the bed shortly after (Carroll) or a slap hitting Catcher who somehow starts hitting home runs for what is the first and maybe last time in his career (Moreno). Just get 5 or 6 guys to play hot at the right time and you're dangerous.

 

It’s likely you’re facing a Top SP. I wouldn’t be the over on Jays at 2 runs.

[L54]

And the DBacks had a -15 run differential and a pythag record of 80-82

 

Okay but that doesn’t dismiss the Rangers were legitimately good

[connorp]

I’d like to have Soto and Judge as a 1-2 punch for the playoffs

[Terminator]

It’s likely you’re facing a Top SP. I wouldn’t be the over on Jays at 2 runs.

 

I hear ya. I certainly wouldn't bet on them right now either.

 

But I wouldn't have bet on Gabriel Moreno, a 160 pound slap hitter, launching bombs off of Corbin Burnes, Clayton Kershaw, Lance Lynn (ok that one I can see) and Jordan Montgomery either. But he did. And the Jays had a better offense then the D-Bags last year by far.

[connorp]

I hear ya. I certainly wouldn't bet on them right now either.

 

But I wouldn't have bet on Gabriel Moreno, a 160 pound slap hitter, launching bombs off of Corbin Burnes, Clayton Kershaw, Lance Lynn (ok that one I can see) and Jordan Montgomery either. But he did. And the Jays had a better offense then the D-Bags last year by far.

 

He was still a bit player. The Big 3 did well with the the sticks through the NLCS. They got lucky that the LAD SP basically fell apart down the stretch. Needless to say, LAD didn’t leave anything to bad luck for the next year. Jays signed IKF and a guy waiting on his AARP card in the mail.