General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Laika]

But it's Tricky Ricky.

 

Small hamstring issue this week, hip flexor next week, then his kinetic chain is out whack and he has an interior capsule strain in late March. See you in 2025, Rick.

[wilko]

But it's Tricky Ricky.

 

Small hamstring issue this week, hip flexor next week, then his kinetic chain is out whack and he has an interior capsule strain in late March. See you in 2025, Rick.

 

Trade him now before he becomes Nasty Nate 2.0!!!

[MikeM3]

He's so far away from being a real SP

[BTS]

Still can't believe there were people on this very forum who were unwilling to trade him for Juan Soto

[Stangstag]

But it's Tricky Ricky.

 

Small hamstring issue this week, hip flexor next week, then his kinetic chain is out whack and he has an interior capsule strain in late March. See you in 2025, Rick.

 

Yeah this is starting to sound like Pearson 2.0

[glory]

Still can't believe there were people on this very forum who were unwilling to trade him for Juan Soto

 

Yeah, only downside would have been one year of control but Tiedemann is so risky that it would probably still be worth it. If there was a player more controllable at a position of need available then it would be a deal worth exploring. The Jays suck at developing pitching but I’ve always liked the “young position players/old SPs” model, which the Jays have essentially done the last few years.

 

Anyway this is probably a non issue as it’s unrelated to the arm but he’s already going to be on a strict innings restriction so he can’t really afford to miss any time.

[keggy]

Yeah that would be a Miggy or Pujols contract

 

Those are reserved for GOAT slam dunk HOF hitters who never slump. And even then, the last several years of both of those deals were painful as f***

 

To get the Matt Olson deal, Vladdy *should* need a good 2024 followed up by a 5+ WAR platform campaign in 2025.

 

He should get it or something close to it if he just.... performs "as projected"

 

It's not just performance. Vlad needs to consistently demonstrate maturity, work ethic, and leadership over the next two years to justify a high-risk investment. Handing an unearned contract to a lazy headcase is a recipe for disaster, examples from the past are too many to count.

[Jimcanuck]

It's not just performance. Vlad needs to consistently demonstrate maturity, work ethic, and leadership over the next two years to justify a high-risk investment. Handing an unearned contract to a lazy headcase is a recipe for disaster, examples from the past are too many to count.

 

If Jays wait two years, he gone

[Laika]

It's not just performance. Vlad needs to consistently demonstrate maturity, work ethic, and leadership over the next two years to justify a high-risk investment. Handing an unearned contract to a lazy headcase is a recipe for disaster, examples from the past are too many to count.

 

It's mostly performance

 

These things are correlated, anyway. If Vladdy fails to demonstrate consistent maturity and work ethic, he probably won't perform, as we have seen!!!

[max silver]

Still can't believe there were people on this very forum who were unwilling to trade him for Juan Soto

 

Yeah that's insanity that people didn't want to trade a potential top of the rotation arm for a 1 year rental DH.

[max silver]

Yeah, only downside would have been one year of control but Tiedemann is so risky that it would probably still be worth it. If there was a player more controllable at a position of need available then it would be a deal worth exploring. The Jays suck at developing pitching but I’ve always liked the “young position players/old SPs” model, which the Jays have essentially done the last few years.

 

Anyway this is probably a non issue as it’s unrelated to the arm but he’s already going to be on a strict innings restriction so he can’t really afford to miss any time.

 

This isn't really a big deal at this point. As you mentioned Tiedemann is going to have a pretty low innings cap for this season so missing a few weeks might actually make it easier to manage to overall innings later in the season.

[The_DH]

Still can't believe there were people on this very forum who were unwilling to trade him for Juan Soto

 

The funny thing is we all like to think we're the GM and make trades, draft and spend a budget. But we're just the fans. Our job should be to demand the best team and put pressure on ownership.

[John_Havok]

The funny thing is we all like to think we're the GM and make trades, draft and spend a budget. But we're just the fans. Our job should be to demand the best team and put pressure on ownership.

 

The fans job is to either buy tickets ...or not. Buy merch...or not. Watch the game on TV, or not. Stream it...or not.

 

That's how fans express their satisfaction or dissatisfaction. Don't consume it and it will change. Keep consuming it while whining on message boards or comments sections....nothing changes.

[BTS]

Yeah that's insanity that people didn't want to trade a potential top of the rotation arm for a 1 year rental DH.

 

Or, from a different POV: it's insanity that people didn't want to move a pitching prospect who averages 3 innings a start for one of the 2-3 best hitters in baseball + the comp pick they'd get if they were unable to extend him.

[wilko]

Yeah that's insanity that people didn't want to trade a potential top of the rotation arm for a 1 year rental DH.

 

Ohtani?

[L54]

This isn't really a big deal at this point. As you mentioned Tiedemann is going to have a pretty low innings cap for this season so missing a few weeks might actually make it easier to manage to overall innings later in the season.

 

Okay this is too much

[L54]

I wouldn’t have moved Ricky for Soto but I would absolutely trade him

[max silver]

Or, from a different POV: it's insanity that people didn't want to move a pitching prospect who averages 3 innings a start for one of the 2-3 best hitters in baseball + the comp pick they'd get if they were unable to extend him.

 

The pitching prospect is only about to enter his third professional season so I really don't get why people would be so anxious to flush his potential future value down the toilet for a rental player. He was averaging closer to 5 innings per start towards the end of the season after being built up. Some pundits believe him to be the most talented left handed starter in the minor leagues and he's been given a 65 FV by Baseball America. Excuse me if I think it would be an astronomically bad move to trade him for a 1 year rental player, no matter how good that player is.

 

The team would have no chance to extend Soto before he reached free agency. The Yankees knew this and basically didn't bother trying. The team would be stuck bidding against the rest of MLB for Soto's long term services, and not having him for this season allows them to take a crack at it next offseason and keep their best prospect. The comp pick more than likely would end up being nothing given where it's located (after second or third round if memory serves). Given how difficult it's been for the organization to develop their own starters it's total insanity to even consider trading the guy with the highest ceiling of anyone in the entire organization. The expensive rotation is quickly becoming unsustainable with the looming Vlad and Bo decisions, and it's as expensive as it is due to primarily building the rotation through free agency and not internally.

[Krylian]

Tiedemann scratched with hamstring discomfort

 

Lol. Most predictable thing ever.

[Stangstag]

If Jays wait two years, he gone

 

Why?

[BTS]

The pitching prospect is only about to enter his third professional season so I really don't get why people would be so anxious to flush his potential future value down the toilet for a rental player. He was averaging closer to 5 innings per start towards the end of the season after being built up. Some pundits believe him to be the most talented left handed starter in the minor leagues and he's been given a 65 FV by Baseball America. Excuse me if I think it would be an astronomically bad move to trade him for a 1 year rental player, no matter how good that player is.

 

The team would have no chance to extend Soto before he reached free agency. The Yankees knew this and basically didn't bother trying. The team would be stuck bidding against the rest of MLB for Soto's long term services, and not having him for this season allows them to take a crack at it next offseason and keep their best prospect. The comp pick more than likely would end up being nothing given where it's located (after second or third round if memory serves). Given how difficult it's been for the organization to develop their own starters it's total insanity to even consider trading the guy with the highest ceiling of anyone in the entire organization. The expensive rotation is quickly becoming unsustainable with the looming Vlad and Bo decisions, and it's as expensive as it is due to primarily building the rotation through free agency and not internally.

 

I just don't really value pitching prospects. Tiedemann has to both develop into one of the best 30 or so pitchers in baseball and stay on the field for most of the next 6-7 years to make you really regret moving him for Soto. Maybe both things happen. But I'm putting the probability at like < 10%

[Laika]

I just don't really value pitching prospects. Tiedemann has to both develop into one of the best 30 or so pitchers in baseball and stay on the field for most of the next 6-7 years to make you really regret moving him for Soto. Maybe both things happen. But I'm putting the probability at like < 10%

 

I dunno man

 

Not like Toronto had any pitching depth to deal from

[max silver]

I just don't really value pitching prospects. Tiedemann has to both develop into one of the best 30 or so pitchers in baseball and stay on the field for most of the next 6-7 years to make you really regret moving him for Soto. Maybe both things happen. But I'm putting the probability at like < 10%

 

Pitching prospects are certainly prone to flaming out but I still place a ton of value on those prospects with legitimate top of the rotation potential given their relative rarity. I don't personally place Tiedemann in the completely untouchable category but it's close to that level for me personally. I'd move him out for a cost controlled player like Luis Robert but not for any rental player no matter how good that player is.

 

I guess we just differ in how we value a single season of Soto. I fully agree he's one of baseball's best hitters but he is so bad defensively that he actually provided the same defensive value as full time DH Shohei Ohtani. I think the Yankees paid an exorbitant price for Soto personally and even that type of deal would have been one I wasn't willing to make.

[G-Snarls]

Pitching prospects are certainly prone to flaming out but I still place a ton of value on those prospects with legitimate top of the rotation potential given their relative rarity. I don't personally place Tiedemann in the completely untouchable category but it's close to that level for me personally. I'd move him out for a cost controlled player like Luis Robert but not for any rental player no matter how good that player is.

 

I guess we just differ in how we value a single season of Soto. I fully agree he's one of baseball's best hitters but he is so bad defensively that he actually provided the same defensive value as full time DH Shohei Ohtani. I think the Yankees paid an exorbitant price for Soto personally and even that type of deal would have been one I wasn't willing to make.

 

Soto is also getting paid 31.5M this year

[BTS]

I guess we just differ in how we value a single season of Soto.

 

Maybe that's it. I see an ageing team with the pitching and defense to reasonably give up the fewest runs in baseball. A Soto level bat is the single biggest need on the team IMO, and if you add that to the 2024 roster while subtracting nothing but Tiedemann I think they're up to like a 90-win projection which would have them as a clear top-5 team.

 

If they make the deal, Soto has a 5+ win season, the team wins 90-something games and a playoff round or 3 before getting a comp pick, I think that's fine. Even if Tiedemann becomes Jesus Luzardo or something a few years from now. That's still not exactly a franchise-crippling price to have paid for a hell of a fun ride in 2024 with a team that might not look so good in 2025 or 2026.

[Rimar]

If Atkins trade Tidermann for a rental player or a fourth OF, this will remind me when AA traded Syndergaard for Dickey. So will be a mistake for sure. But if this is for a guy like Trout or Tatis Jr, this make more sense.

[Jimcanuck]

If Atkins trade Tidermann for a rental player or a fourth OF, this will remind me when AA traded Syndergaard for Dickey. So will be a mistake for sure. But if this is for a guy like Trout or Tatis Jr, this make more sense.

 

Tiedeman for Trout, great idea!

[The_DH]

The fans job is to either buy tickets ...or not. Buy merch...or not. Watch the game on TV, or not. Stream it...or not.

 

That's how fans express their satisfaction or dissatisfaction. Don't consume it and it will change. Keep consuming it while whining on message boards or comments sections....nothing changes.

 

That's kind of what I'm thinking. Too many people on this board try to think they're the GM and save money for the team. I once read somebody say during the JP years that he didn't want to spend on the bullpen. I say get Bellinger and one of those pitchers like Snell. We're not good enough to win right now. Ed Rogers will not spend if he doesn't have to. I just think we should stop making excuses for the leadership and get on with it.

[John_Havok]

That's kind of what I'm thinking. Too many people on this board try to think they're the GM and save money for the team. I once read somebody say during the JP years that he didn't want to spend on the bullpen. I say get Bellinger and one of those pitchers like Snell. We're not good enough to win right now. Ed Rogers will not spend if he doesn't have to. I just think we should stop making excuses for the leadership and get on with it.

 

Yeah, i gave up trying to really predict what a FO will or won't do since i have about 0.05% of the information they do. Trying to rationalize moves after the fact to understand their mindset is a bit easier.

 

It's obvious what the Jays need position-wise, but its also obvious they can't just cut a blank check to anyone we think might fit those needs. Sure, would be nice to have Chapman back, or Bellinger given the current alternatives in house, but knowing what you need is about the first 1% of the job and is so obvious even the comments section on Sportsnet could get it right about 25% of the time.

 

Chappy and Bellinger are interesting specifically because they have the same problem, as a result of totally opposite problems. Neither can get the long term contract they want, because people are skeptical their results won't sustain; Bellinger's because of s*** underlying numbers and Chapman because his s*** results haven't matched great underlying numbers. The great D from both isn't enough to hang the long term big money deal on.

[Jimcanuck]

Bellinger does t have s*** underlying numbers, there is a lot of red on his statcast