Former Blue Jays Thread

[max silver]

They are also a winner - so we would have to overpay rather a lot I would suspect. Given our team payroll and being stuck with our new Vernon Wells albatross (Springer) we will not likely spend on 34-year-old starting pitchers.

 

If the Jays can somehow trade Chris Bassitt and his -0.1 WAR and 1.462 WHIP this off-season and unload his $ 22 million for 2025 I would be making that one of the priorities.

 

Bassitt's 2.2 FWAR this season paint a different picture. I have no issues with simply letting him finish his contract out and trading him at the deadline if the team struggles yet again next year.

[glory]

Bassitt's 2.2 FWAR this season paint a different picture. I have no issues with simply letting him finish his contract out and trading him at the deadline if the team struggles yet again next year.

 

If there is a team out there that is willing to take that contract and give up something useful, then I think the Jays would be smart to do it. Just reallocate the money to (ideally) a better starter in free agency, even if it costs a bit more AAV, as that's the one area where there seems to be some quality + quantity in the FA market. There's no chance this front office does something like that, but it would be worth pursuing.

[max silver]

If there is a team out there that is willing to take that contract and give up something useful, then I think the Jays would be smart to do it. Just reallocate the money to (ideally) a better starter in free agency, even if it costs a bit more AAV, as that's the one area where there seems to be some quality + quantity in the FA market. There's no chance this front office does something like that, but it would be worth pursuing.

 

If you believe that Bassitt is as bad as the BWAR value suggests then it seems awfully unlikely other teams would be offering anything worthwhile in return. The Blue Jays would more than likely have to kick in extra money to move him or take a bad deal back so the upside likely isn't there. I think even as he declines Bassitt has value as a starter who has been very healthy, soaks up a ton of innings and can act as a bit of a pitching coach to young up and coming starters (I'd wager he's been a valuable sounding board for Francis in particular given their relative similarities).

[Pendleton]

https://www.mlb.com/news/justin-turner-intends-to-continue-playing-in-2025

 

Turner intends to play next year

[BigCecil]

Congrats to Teoscar on reaching a new career high in HRs (33) with a 133 wRC+ .231 ISO season.

 

Pretty solid 1 year $20.4 AAV deal by LAD.

[Spanky99]

Congrats to Teoscar on reaching a new career high in HRs (33) with a 133 wRC+ .231 ISO season.

 

Pretty solid 1 year $20.4 AAV deal by LAD.

 

Sure was, he still wasn't coming here on a 1 year deal. Jays should've offered at least a 2 year deal, not sure if they did or not.

[John_Havok]

Congrats to Teoscar on reaching a new career high in HRs (33) with a 133 wRC+ .231 ISO season.

 

Pretty solid 1 year $20.4 AAV deal by LAD.

 

Quite. But it does make ya wonder if he'd have been close to those numbers without 2 or 3 hall of fame calibre hitters in front of him every game.

[jaysblue]

Congrats to Teoscar on reaching a new career high in HRs (33) with a 133 wRC+ .231 ISO season.

 

Pretty solid 1 year $20.4 AAV deal by LAD.

 

Those extra years of control on Swanson still are way more valuable and Macko could be something decent. Hope the Jays could pull another move where they trade an everyday player for a reliever with 3 years of control! Just brilliant!

[jaysblue]

Quite. But it does make ya wonder if he'd have been close to those numbers without 2 or 3 hall of fame calibre hitters in front of him every game.

 

In Toronto, he would have Vladdy who has been one of the best bats in baseball since June. As well, Teo has had success before in Toronto, without 2 or 3 Hall of Fame caliber hitters in front of him. Just saying.

[Spanky99]

Those extra years of control on Swanson still are way more valuable and Macko could be something decent. Hope the Jays could pull another move where they trade an everyday player for a reliever with 3 years of control! Just brilliant!

 

And Swanson was a stud last year and Macko has progressed well. The move was fine in context. Stop being a dildo.

[BigCecil]

Quite. But it does make ya wonder if he'd have been close to those numbers without 2 or 3 hall of fame calibre hitters in front of him every game.

 

Teo wRC+:

 

2020 = 142

2021 = 132

2022 = 129

2023 = 107

2024 = 133

 

The anomaly is 2023.

 

I'm pretty confident that back to back in the order with Vlad this year he would have been fine - given thats who he hit beside in '20, '21 and '22.

[BigCecil]

And Swanson was a stud last year and Macko has progressed well. The move was fine in context. Stop being a dildo.

 

Relievers are volatile as f***, especially with a split, and it wasn't all back luck for Swanson in '25. Macko is still a lotto ticket. We'll see how he handles the arm injury. His tits got lit in Sept.

 

There was an alternative universe where we extend Teo on the cheap in '22 as a "corner OF'er" (spits) but instead we went all in in Barrio breakup and viva la run prevention!

 

But we have had this "debate" 10 million times. We digress lol.

[jaysblue]

And Swanson was a stud last year and Macko has progressed well. The move was fine in context. Stop being a dildo.

 

Relievers are volatile. Yes Swanson pitched great last season, but you shouldn't have to trade an everyday player like Teo for a reliever like Swanson. You develop those guys in your system or you sign a reliever via free agency.

 

The Jays would have benefited from having Teo in the lineup in 2023 and who knows, maybe it would have made it easier to resign him for 2024.

 

Overall, wasn't too crazy about it at the time and looking back still not. We'll agree to disagree lol.

[max silver]

Relievers are volatile as f***, especially with a split, and it wasn't all back luck for Swanson in '25. Macko is still a lotto ticket. We'll see how he handles the arm injury. His tits got lit in Sept.

 

There was an alternative universe where we extend Teo on the cheap in '22 as a "corner OF'er" (spits) but instead we went all in in Barrio breakup and viva la run prevention!

 

But we have had this "debate" 10 million times. We digress lol.

 

That's assuming Teo would have been willing to sign a cheap team friendly extension which is something we simply don't know. Some guys prioritize getting paid in free agency and aren't willing to sign bargain deals with their team prior to that opportunity.

[glory]

Teo wRC+:

 

2020 = 142

2021 = 132

2022 = 129

2023 = 107

2024 = 133

 

The anomaly is 2023.

 

I'm pretty confident that back to back in the order with Vlad this year he would have been fine - given thats who he hit beside in '20, '21 and '22.

 

Even Teo's road wRC+ in 2023 was right in line with this season and what he's done since 2020. He was just awful at Safeco. He would have been fine in Toronto.

[Brownie19]

Those extra years of control on Swanson still are way more valuable and Macko could be something decent. Hope the Jays could pull another move where they trade an everyday player for a reliever with 3 years of control! Just brilliant!

 

What's your point or goal with this? Commenting on what he did in 2024, after he became a FA and signed with another team has nothing to do with the Seattle deal. Are you trying to suggest that if the Jays kept him 2023, he would have had as good of a season as he did this year (3.5 WAR) and that's why you think this trade was a disaster? The Jays used the money they would have paid Teo to sign KK, who gave us a 2.8 WAR season. So even if that's your point, this isn't some slam dunk, franchise altering disaster of a trade. In hindsight, sure, maybe keeping Teo was a better call, but it's not like he traded away Yordan or Tatis Jr.

 

I mean - we get it. You hate Atkins. He does nothing right. You'll probably hate the next GM too and the guy after that. Are you back trying to dunk on those who don't think he's a Dave Stewart level GM? Does that get you off?

 

Or are you just trying to be a troll and trigger people - which is always such a cool look.

[metafour]

What's your point or goal with this? Commenting on what he did in 2024, after he became a FA and signed with another team has nothing to do with the Seattle deal. Are you trying to suggest that if the Jays kept him 2023, he would have had as good of a season as he did this year (3.5 WAR) and that's why you think this trade was a disaster? The Jays used the money they would have paid Teo to sign KK, who gave us a 2.8 WAR season. So even if that's your point, this isn't some slam dunk, franchise altering disaster of a trade. In hindsight, sure, maybe keeping Teo was a better call, but it's not like he traded away Yordan or Tatis Jr.

 

I mean - we get it. You hate Atkins. He does nothing right. You'll probably hate the next GM too and the guy after that. Are you back trying to dunk on those who don't think he's a Dave Stewart level GM? Does that get you off?

 

Or are you just trying to be a troll and trigger people - which is always such a cool look.

 

Well said. It was Teoscar (impending FA) for 3.6 fWAR and Adam Macko. They don't/can't sign Kiermaier with Teoscar still on the roster, so those moves are entirely connected.

 

Retroactively using Teoscar's 2024 season is hilarious. Under that same narrative I'm sure the Dodgers wish they would have signed him to a 2 or 3 year deal now that they know that he'd have his 2nd best season ever, but they didn't. Gee I guess Friedman isn't so smart after all.

[Brownie19]

Well said. It was Teoscar (impending FA) for 3.6 fWAR and Adam Macko. They don't/can't sign Kiermaier with Teoscar still on the roster, so those moves are entirely connected.

 

Retroactively using Teoscar's 2024 season is hilarious. Under that same narrative I'm sure the Dodgers wish they would have signed him to a 2 or 3 year deal now that they know that he'd have his 2nd best season ever, but they didn't. Gee I guess Friedman isn't so smart after all.

 

I'm sure LA could have had Teo for 2-3 years at a lower AAV if they wanted...I'm sure several other teams could have also. It's almost like there was some uncertainty within the league on whether Teo was declining or not. Like there was a probability he wasn't going to rebound for him poor 2023 season.

[Terminator]

Those extra years of control on Swanson still are way more valuable and Macko could be something decent. Hope the Jays could pull another move where they trade an everyday player for a reliever with 3 years of control! Just brilliant!

 

Using Teo's 2024 numbers to argue about a 2023 trade is some real slapdick logic lmao

[Orgfiller]

Using Teo's 2024 numbers to argue about a 2023 trade is some real slapdick logic lmao

 

A 2023 trade in which he subsequently had the worst offensive season of his career as he entered free agency where he had to settle for a pillow contract. Flawless logic.

[Brownie19]

Grichuk just posted a career high wRC+ too - never should have traded him either. Just brilliant!

[AMS528]

Grichuk just posted a career high wRC+ too - never should have traded him either. Just brilliant!

 

Cmon that's being just as ridiculous in a different way. Teo had a very strong multiyear track record and his one off year he had a .643 OPS at Safeco and .830 everywhere else. Safeco is notorious for hitters, and really if anything it was probably a buy low on an extended deal for some team in the league. The Dodgers benefited from Safeco basically.

 

Actually looking at those numbers I'm surprised anyone considered his Safeco numbers at all when doing a deal.

[Brownie19]

Cmon that's being just as ridiculous in a different way. Teo had a very strong multiyear track record and his one off year he had a .643 OPS at Safeco and .830 everywhere else. Safeco is notorious for hitters, and really if anything it was probably a buy low on an extended deal for some team in the league. The Dodgers benefited from Safeco basically.

 

Actually looking at those numbers I'm surprised anyone considered his Safeco numbers at all when doing a deal.

 

I'm obviously being facetious. You can't point to 2024 numbers to judge a 2023 trade of an impending FA. And even if you did - it would still generally be viewed as a lateral move. Re-hashing this trade following the 2024 season is as dumb as suggesting we never should have traded Grichuk because he hit well this year.

[AMS528]

Former Jays of some specific interest to me roundup.

 

Moreno - 2.5 WAR in 97 games. Injuries hindered him this year. He's got the potential for some 4 WAR seasons in him I think.

 

LGJ - 2.2 WAR in 133 games. He is remarkably consistent and stable as a hitter. You can rely on him for near exactly the same performance year in and year out.

 

Matt Chapman - 5.5 WAR (7.2 bWAR) - Earned himself a massive (and questionable) contract. Would have been great to have him, would have papered over Bo's non-entity of a season I think.

 

Jordan Hicks 0.5 WAR - Started out strong as a starter and fell off pretty hard after those first bunch of starts.

 

Teo Hernandez - 3.5 WAR - Right to his usual numbers. Maybe we'll consider him again.

 

Robbie Ray - 0.0 WAR - Came back from injuries striking out loads of guys and giving up loads of HRs and walking loads of batters. Pitched like his pre Jays self. One of the best decisions the FO ever made was choosing Gausman and letting Ray walk.

 

Marcus Semien - 4.2 WAR - Not the best hitting season for Semien, he was just league average, but like he always does he accrued a f*** ton of value by being incredible defensively, being a decent baserunner, and hitting just well enough. He's up to 46 bWAR for his career and has a 7 year peak of 40 WAR btw. I don't think he'd ever make the hall, but he really is going to probably get to a mid 50s WAR total. Wish he would have hit a bit better and gotten 5-6 WAR. Would have built the resume a bit more.

 

He's put up 15 WAR for Texas. He's the rare older free agent who is going to be worth the contract he signed. Wish we kept him.

 

Simeon Woods Richardson - 1.8 WAR - Did great his first 115 innings and then got smacked around the last 20 or so. Maybe not hugely surprising since it was a career high in innings and he ran out of steam. But decent year overall. He only just turned 24, he might have a good career.

 

Austin Martin - -0.2 WAR in 93 games - He does not hit well enough to compensate for not being good defensively.

 

 

Feel free to add on and argue about anyone you'd like.

[jaysblue]

What's your point or goal with this? Commenting on what he did in 2024, after he became a FA and signed with another team has nothing to do with the Seattle deal. Are you trying to suggest that if the Jays kept him 2023, he would have had as good of a season as he did this year (3.5 WAR) and that's why you think this trade was a disaster? The Jays used the money they would have paid Teo to sign KK, who gave us a 2.8 WAR season. So even if that's your point, this isn't some slam dunk, franchise altering disaster of a trade. In hindsight, sure, maybe keeping Teo was a better call, but it's not like he traded away Yordan or Tatis Jr.

 

I mean - we get it. You hate Atkins. He does nothing right. You'll probably hate the next GM too and the guy after that. Are you back trying to dunk on those who don't think he's a Dave Stewart level GM? Does that get you off?

 

Or are you just trying to be a troll and trigger people - which is always such a cool look.

 

Nah, I just don't kiss the floor he walks on like you and some other posters on this board do! Atkins could do no wrong in your view!

[jaysblue]

Grichuk just posted a career high wRC+ too - never should have traded him either. Just brilliant!

 

lol this is embarrassing.

[jaysblue]

Using Teo's 2024 numbers to argue about a 2023 trade is some real slapdick logic lmao

 

Jays could have used Teo's bat in 2023 and most likely he puts up better numbers hitting at the RC instead of Safeco. And yeah, gives the Jays the inside edge to sign him to an extension. ]

 

As well, you missed the essence of my argument. You shouldn't have to trade away a solid everyday player for a reliever. If the Jays had a better front office, they should have found and developed their own version of Swanson rather than trading away a solid outfielder for one.

[Brownie19]

Jays could have used Teo's bat in 2023 and most likely he puts up better numbers hitting at the RC instead of Safeco. And yeah, gives the Jays the inside edge to sign him to an extension. ]

 

As well, you missed the essence of my argument. You shouldn't have to trade away a solid everyday player for a reliever. If the Jays had a better front office, they should have found and developed their own version of Swanson rather than trading away a solid outfielder for one.

 

Everyone did. That's why multiple people opined that your logic was stupid.

[Terminator]

If we keep Teo in 2023 instead of trading him for a legit setup man and then using the savings on Belt and KK we probably miss the playoffs that year. Swanson, Belt and KK all had very very good years and Teo was really mediocre.

 

The Atkins haters have so much ammo to use to prove their points. Why they keep falling on the Teo sword when it was clearly a good trade for us I will never understand. Just let it go fellas!

[Stangstag]

Former Jays of some specific interest to me roundup.

 

Moreno - 2.5 WAR in 97 games. Injuries hindered him this year. He's got the potential for some 4 WAR seasons in him I think.

 

LGJ - 2.2 WAR in 133 games. He is remarkably consistent and stable as a hitter. You can rely on him for near exactly the same performance year in and year out.

 

Matt Chapman - 5.5 WAR (7.2 bWAR) - Earned himself a massive (and questionable) contract. Would have been great to have him, would have papered over Bo's non-entity of a season I think.

 

Jordan Hicks 0.5 WAR - Started out strong as a starter and fell off pretty hard after those first bunch of starts.

 

Teo Hernandez - 3.5 WAR - Right to his usual numbers. Maybe we'll consider him again.

 

Robbie Ray - 0.0 WAR - Came back from injuries striking out loads of guys and giving up loads of HRs and walking loads of batters. Pitched like his pre Jays self. One of the best decisions the FO ever made was choosing Gausman and letting Ray walk.

 

Marcus Semien - 4.2 WAR - Not the best hitting season for Semien, he was just league average, but like he always does he accrued a f*** ton of value by being incredible defensively, being a decent baserunner, and hitting just well enough. He's up to 46 bWAR for his career and has a 7 year peak of 40 WAR btw. I don't think he'd ever make the hall, but he really is going to probably get to a mid 50s WAR total. Wish he would have hit a bit better and gotten 5-6 WAR. Would have built the resume a bit more.

 

He's put up 15 WAR for Texas. He's the rare older free agent who is going to be worth the contract he signed. Wish we kept him.

 

Simeon Woods Richardson - 1.8 WAR - Did great his first 115 innings and then got smacked around the last 20 or so. Maybe not hugely surprising since it was a career high in innings and he ran out of steam. But decent year overall. He only just turned 24, he might have a good career.

 

Austin Martin - -0.2 WAR in 93 games - He does not hit well enough to compensate for not being good defensively.

 

 

Feel free to add on and argue about anyone you'd like.

 

In hindsight, Semien would have been an excellent guy to sign back and have him as the primary SS. Move Bo to 2nd.

 

His contract was seen as a bit crazy at the time but so far he’s been worth every penny and likely already providing surplus value on the deal as a whole.