Blue Jays acquire Daulton Varsho for Moreno and Gurriel

[G-Snarls]

OF defense is going to be incredible

[Grant77]

For the dozens of posters calling out 'idiots' who believe Gurriel is a star or don't know about Varsho's defense, who are you responding to? I haven't seen a single person say that.

 

From reading the thread, it seems the differences of opinion center around the value of Gabriel Moreno. That's to be expected as he is an 'unproven prospect' in the always brilliant Adam Greenwood's words. If he was proven, he wouldn't be a prospect.

[max silver]

This trade is a perfect example of how you need to give up something of value in order to receive something of value in return. I don't think it's a coincidence that this deal was consummated shortly after it was announced that Conforto signed with the Giants. I suspect that the Jays waited to see how that potential signing turned out before pulling the trigger on this deal. It's slightly puzzling that Gurriel was moved out in this deal as it kind of makes it necessary to find another corner outfielder to take his place unless the team plans to use Merrifield a lot in the outfield this in 2023. This move has to firmly move the team back below the CBT threshold, it remains to be seen if they plan on adding any more payroll at this point.

 

If the choice was between moving a potential front of the rotation arm like Tiedemann in a Reynolds trade or moving out Moreno in return for Varsho I would rather Moreno be moved out as the team will still have a stout catching tandem for at least the next few seasons.

[Spanky99]

Holy cow! Not to sure what to make of this, hopefully we get some extra ceiling on Varsho's prime years coming up, damn. You best be right CD, our D is now sublime.

[Jaysareus]

I think d backs get the best of this trade moreno gives them the edge.

[lovemyjays]

Gonna need a guy that can consistently get on base to round out the lineup (preferably a left bat).

If Varsho, Chap, Jano, Biggio, KK are in the lineup together (which they will most of the time), chances are there'll be plenty of low scoring games and not a whole lot of getting on base. If any combination of those guys fall in a slump at the same time, this team will struggle mightily to produce runs.

[Spanky99]

We hold all the cards and this is what Ross did?

 

lol... there's no pleasing you.

 

Varsho had 4.6 WAR in 2022

Played at the same pace in 2021

 

Destroyed AA at 22 without striking out much

 

They get his four prime seasons

 

Perfect roster fit. Left handed CF who is also the emergency catcher so you can DH Kirk all the time.

 

Could be more upside I don’t think it’s set in stone that he will have whiff issues like in his short career so far

 

Yup, this is quite interesting. Serious flexibility and sublime D all around for this club. Exciting.

[G-Snarls]

I think ARI got more overall player value out of the trade

 

But I also think the Jays upgraded the team quite substantially because you can't extract value from 3 catchers and Varsho is excellent

 

This was the young controllable LH hitting OF they were after

[Spanky99]

We hold all the cards and this is what Ross did?

 

Ross Atkins is a f***ing moron.

 

Bwahahaha...

[G-Snarls]

I think ARI got more overall player value out of the trade

 

But I also think the Jays upgraded the team quite substantially

 

This was the young controllable LH hitting OF they were after

[max silver]

I think ARI got more overall player value out of the trade

 

But I also think the Jays upgraded the team quite substantially because you can't extract value from 3 catchers and Varsho is excellent

 

This was the young controllable LH hitting OF they were after

 

I figured there would be a trade of this sort that pretty much popped up out of the blue. Arizona and the Jays were just a perfect trade match given the excess catching on the Jays roster and excess young lefty outfielders on the Dbacks roster. I just didn't foresee Varsho being the player that the Jays ended up obtaining thinking that Thomas was more likely to be moved by Arizona.

[Spanky99]

Really like the player, unique and very useful.

 

The price is giving me pause. Is this the best player you can get for a top 10 prospect (+) ?

 

It really does in value, here's to hoping they knocked this out of the park.

[Spanky99]

Then why the hell is Bo still our starting SS? Dude blows defensively and plays a super premium position.

 

Hah... the sky is falling.

[John_Havok]

This trade is a perfect example of how you need to give up something of value in order to receive something of value in return. I don't think it's a coincidence that this deal was consummated shortly after it was announced that Conforto signed with the Giants. I suspect that the Jays waited to see how that potential signing turned out before pulling the trigger on this deal. It's slightly puzzling that Gurriel was moved out in this deal as it kind of makes it necessary to find another corner outfielder to take his place unless the team plans to use Merrifield a lot in the outfield this in 2023. This move has to firmly move the team back below the CBT threshold, it remains to be seen if they plan on adding any more payroll at this point.

 

If the choice was between moving a potential front of the rotation arm like Tiedemann in a Reynolds trade or moving out Moreno in return for Varsho I would rather Moreno be moved out as the team will still have a stout catching tandem for at least the next few seasons.

 

Seems to me both sides dealth from a position of depth and strength to get something they didn't have, and Arizona got the Jays to kick in Gurriel, who was basically a bench bat in the hopes they can get any kind of useful season out of him before letting him either walk in free agency or deal at the deadline if he does get the dead cat bounce.

 

A good old fashioned baseball trade.

[max silver]

It really does in value, here's to hoping they knocked this out of the park.

 

People just seem to miss the fact that you aren't going to bring back a player with value like Varsho without paying a price that ultimately hurts a lot. It sucks to see Moreno go the other way as he's a potential future stud, but Varsho is really f***ing good right now. This is a dude who produced a 4.6 FWAR/4.9 BWAR season and has 4 more years of remaining control. Moreno was ultimately a luxury on this team. It seems like people were more on board with the idea of burning roster value by using Moreno as a super sub utility player vs trading Moreno to fill an area of obvious need. If the team actually had some young outfielders in the minor leagues a move like this wouldn't have been necessary but that's one area they haven't produced any reinforcements for the roster up to this point.

[max silver]

Seems to me both sides dealth from a position of depth and strength to get something they didn't have, and Arizona got the Jays to kick in Gurriel, who was basically a bench bat in the hopes they can get any kind of useful season out of him before letting him either walk in free agency or deal at the deadline if he does get the dead cat bounce.

 

A good old fashioned baseball trade.

 

Yeah bringing in Varsho would have really reduced the amount of playing time that was available for Gurriel moving forward. I don't think Gurriel is quite as bad defensively as he's being made out to be in this discussion, however Kiermaier, Varsho and Springer are all leaps and bounds better defensively compared to Gurriel and are simply far more productive overall players. I do suspect some sort of lefty mashing corner outfielder may be of use to this roster as both Varsho and Kiermaier are likely to struggle against good quality left handed pitching.

[connorp]

I don’t think there’s many people thinking LG was any sort of big loss. He was more just a fan favorite kind that may not have been worth much, so it made sense just to hang on to him. Not like he’s unplayable.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Jays wanted to dump the money and that’s why he was in there

[John_Havok]

Yeah bringing in Varsho would have really reduced the amount of playing time that was available for Gurriel moving forward. I don't think Gurriel is quite as bad defensively as he's being made out to be in this discussion, however Kiermaier, Varsho and Springer are all leaps and bounds better defensively compared to Gurriel and are simply far more productive overall players. I do suspect some sort of lefty mashing corner outfielder may be of use to this roster as both Varsho and Kiermaier are likely to struggle against good quality left handed pitching.

 

Yeah, I was looking at the rest of the free agent OF options... there's not much out there that fit that bill. One of KK or Varsho will likely sit against lefties, and they'll do need something to replace that.

 

Tommy Pham?

[Jays24]

I don’t think there’s many people thinking LG was any sort of big loss. He was more just a fan favorite kind that may not have been worth much, so it made sense just to hang on to him. Not like he’s unplayable.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Jays wanted to dump the money and that’s why he was in there

 

Personally thought Gurriel would have been a great 4th OFer with a team that has 3 CFers. Not to mention he can play a pretty good 1B too.

 

Dude was the only player on our team that was batting close to .300 all year (along with Kirk) and was missed during our stretch run to the playoffs. If he was able to combine that hitting with some power, would have been amazing.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Jays24

[max silver]

Hah... the sky is falling.

 

The sky is always falling with this guy. I really don't remember the front office making any moves that this guy actually likes, it's always the same tired whine bitch whine routine. The team as constructed presently has made an upgrade to the bullpen with Swanson, has replaced Stripling with more of a sure thing in Bassit, has essentially replaced Teoscar with Varsho, and has replaced the collection of Zimmer/Bradley Jr./Tapia with Kiermaier. The outfield has gone from below average to potentially elite defensively, the starting rotation will likely receive more innings, the lineup has become more balanced and the bullpen has acquired another swing and miss reliever. It's entirely possible the lineup is going to score fewer runs, but this should be more than offset by the extra runs which are going to be saved defensively.

[Jimcanuck]

Arizona got the Jays to kick in Gurriel, who was basically a bench bat in the hopes they can get any kind of useful season out of him before letting him either walk in free agency or deal at the deadline if he does get the dead cat bounce.

 

Gurriel has to produce or he's riding pine. D'backs still have Carroll, Thomas, McCarthy, Lewis for the OF

[The Cats Ass]

We got ride of two of the main “class clowns” this off-season. Hernandez and Gurriel were two of the main guys when we were a losing team, maybe that effected how they handled themselves. It might’ve rubbed off on the younger guys as they came up. Seems like the front office has a plan in motion and the quick exit this year in the playoffs might have had a say in it.

[connorp]

People just seem to miss the fact that you aren't going to bring back a player with value like Varsho without paying a price that ultimately hurts a lot. It sucks to see Moreno go the other way as he's a potential future stud, but Varsho is really f***ing good right now. This is a dude who produced a 4.6 FWAR/4.9 BWAR season and has 4 more years of remaining control. Moreno was ultimately a luxury on this team. It seems like people were more on board with the idea of burning roster value by using Moreno as a super sub utility player vs trading Moreno to fill an area of obvious need. If the team actually had some young outfielders in the minor leagues a move like this wouldn't have been necessary but that's one area they haven't produced any reinforcements for the roster up to this point.

 

Defensive value is just so hard to determine and so it’s disingenuous to say he was really worth 5 WAR. Like look at projections next year for his D. The s*** is just so wild in variance.

[bendera3]

I don’t think there’s many people thinking LG was any sort of big loss. He was more just a fan favorite kind that may not have been worth much, so it made sense just to hang on to him. Not like he’s unplayable.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Jays wanted to dump the money and that’s why he was in there

 

The last thing you said is what I'm thinking. I'm thinking the front office is thinking about getting some money ready to add at the deadline when we see what needs to be addressed a little more clearly.

[Grant77]

Personally thought Gurriel would have been a great 4th OFer with a team that has 3 CFers. Not to mention he can play a pretty good 1B too.

 

Dude was the only player on our team that was batting close to .300 all year and was missed during our stretch run to the playoffs. If he was able to combine that hitting with some power, would have been amazing.

 

Alejandro Kirk?

[connorp]

I mean. I think the hope was #1 prospect would get you something without warts. Maybe another prospect back like Jordan Walker. I’m sure they were trying for something different and circled back to this deal. Projections have him as a 3 WAR OF and controllable for multiple years, so there’s stuff to like and the hope is they do something with the payroll flexibility .. just underwhelming in the here and now

[Jays24]

Alejandro Kirk?

 

Brain fart... forgot about Mr Kirk.

[Spanky99]

Jays need a bench bat 4th OF still, and a pitcher. Get R Done, Ross! Profar and Eovaldi next...

[John_Havok]

Defensive value is just so hard to determine and so it’s disingenuous to say he was really worth 5 WAR. Like look at projections next year for his D. The s*** is just so wild in variance.

 

There's definitely some luck involved ibn how some defensive metrics are calculated, but when you have 99th percentile jump and 70th percentile speed, chances are you won't fluctuate that much in the metrics that matter.

[THANOS]

Of all the Outfielders discussed this off-season Daulton Varsho was probably near the bottom of the list. Sure left-handed power but no ability to get on base. Expect a lot of wild swings and frustrating at-bats.

 

Kinda shocked he cost that much. Tough to trade an Athletic Catcher with that much upside with the bat and keeping a fat Kirk. Diamondbacks did very well here.

 

My thoughts exactly. He's Grichuk from the left side offensively. He's prime Kiermeyer defensively.

 

I'm just not sold on the offense.