Blue Jays acquire Daulton Varsho for Moreno and Gurriel

[Sorrow]

I’m probably the least high person on Varsho on this forum and I’m happy with this trade. Gurriel is awful and we have a second OF for the next 4 seasons instead of just Springer. Out OF defence is going to be phenomenal this season. I’m happy Jansen is here and I’m sticking to my guns that he is the most valuable of the 3 catchers in 23. Moreno looks like a good player but I’m concerned by the dramatic drop in power in 22.

[connorp]

This is a fun trade because you get to see so many people ignore defense and WAR in favour of batting average and the undying and limitless promise of prospects

 

Is there a way to retroactively grade his batting WAR as a corner OF?

[John_Havok]

Yeah it was me. I think I'd rather go with the athletic, versatile, non base clogging option in Moreno. I'm just worried about Kirk's body holding up.

 

I bet if Carroll was on the table, Kirk would have been too.

[gruber92]

Springer

Bo

Vlad

Kirk

Chapman

Varsho

Jansen

Biggio / Merrifield

Kiermaier

 

Espinal, ?, ?

 

6-9 not looking too good.

[Jayzfan79]

I haven't seen anyone mention the changes to the outfield come next season either. How well do you figure teo and lgj would perform in that new Rogers outfield for 81 games?

 

I could imagine the circus of those balls hit to RC or LC where things change. I'd imagine quite a few more missed balls and inflated scores against.

 

This shouldnt be an issue or a thought going forward.

[Jimcanuck]

It's interesting that the two main jokesters Teo and Gurriel have been moved. Might be purely a coincidence.

[Jimcanuck]

6-9 not looking too good.

 

lol, only Kiermaier is below league average with the bat

[TheHurl]

is KK really better than Gurriel at this stage of his career?

 

He was in 2022 playing with a bad hip and half the PA's.

 

Most of Varsho's WAR came from CF defense, which won't happen as much here.

 

Varsho had 60% of his innings in RF last year. Where 75% of his defensive fWAR came from.

[Sorrow]

6-9 not looking too good.

 

 

Jansens last 400 PA are something like 150 wRC+ yes it’s a small sample but he’s been the Jays best hitter in that sample since May 1st of 2021.

[TheHurl]

I haven't seen anyone mention the changes to the outfield come next season either. How well do you figure teo and lgj would perform in that new Rogers outfield for 81 games?

 

I could imagine the circus of those balls hit to RC or LC where things change. I'd imagine quite a few more missed balls and inflated scores against.

 

This shouldnt be an issue or a thought going forward.

 

Did they make changes to the field? I thought it was all stands. Genuinely asking

[Laika]

Is there a way to retroactively grade his batting WAR as a corner OF?

 

Not sure what you mean exactly but WAR already includes the positional relative expectations on his bat through the positional adjustment.

 

Left fielders get a penalty of 12.5 runs so they are expected to be that much better with the stick

[Laika]

It's interesting that the two main jokesters Teo and Gurriel have been moved. Might be purely a coincidence.

 

I truly think it is

 

I think the Jays just decided to move on from their abhorrent defense

[Captain Adama]

Not one for one, that's why I specified when I read the "partial" headline. WTF, you young libs love twisting facts to fit your narratives.

 

Lol, classic Gruber. You tell 'em!

[gruber92]

lol, only Kiermaier is below league average with the bat

 

Biggio is a lost soul also, but the addition of Mattingly could turn him around.

[Dick_Pole]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/varshda01.shtml

 

VS. this player before the Jays acquired him (who had a 102 OPS+ while here yet is considered a star):

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/whitede03.shtml

 

I'm gaining optimism not because I'm a blind homer, but because the front office has earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to trades.

[justafan]

It's interesting that the two main jokesters Teo and Gurriel have been moved. Might be purely a coincidence.

 

I think a few players were getting tired of it!

[Deadpool]

I'm sad to see Moreno go, but this is the kind of guy I'd want to trade him for if we had to: Young, cheap, upside, years of control.

[gruber92]

Jansens last 400 PA are something like 150 wRC+ yes it’s a small sample but he’s been the Jays best hitter in that sample since May 1st of 2021.

 

Yeah but Jansen needs to stay healthy. Might not be a bad idea to have Varsho start 20 or so games at catcher.

[Captain Adama]

Did they make changes to the field? I thought it was all stands. Genuinely asking

 

I think they're bringing in the stands slightly where the bullpens go

[glory]

It's interesting that the two main jokesters Teo and Gurriel have been moved. Might be purely a coincidence.

 

I think it had more to do with "run prevention" which is the buzz term Atkins has been throwing out all off season. Gurriel is awful defensively and Hernandez isn't much better. Defense in the OF should be significantly better next season as well as the base running. Offense likely took a hit depending on whether Varsho is closer to a league average bat or if he has more upside, but I think they were willing to take that gamble.

[TheHurl]

Biggio is a lost soul also, but the addition of Mattingly could turn him around.

 

Biggio is projected for 106 wRC+ and right now might be in line for 150 PA's

[Jays24]

He was in 2022 playing with a bad hip and half the PA's.

 

Varsho had 60% of his innings in RF last year. Where 75% of his defensive fWAR came from.

 

So we're expecting KK to get better after coming off a major Hip injury? His whole game is based on speed. Gurriel is the better overall player between the two for next season in my eyes.

 

Yes, I just saw Varsho's breakdown defensively. It's impressive no doubt and exactly what we needed on this team long term. Just not a fan of the price.

[Laika]

Let’s be real

 

Moreno was not the best prospect in baseball

 

He was ranked as such by some outfits but he’s not tooled up enough for that kind of ranking. It was a function of graduations and a lack of data in the prospects coming for him.

 

Still a great prospect. Top 10, sure. But this isn’t selling Julio Rodriguez

[Jimcanuck]

Let’s be real

 

Moreno was not the best prospect in baseball

 

He was ranked as such by some outfits but he’s not tooled up enough for that kind of ranking. It was a function of graduations and a lack of data in the prospects coming for him.

 

Still a great prospect. Top 10, sure. But this isn’t selling Julio Rodriguez

 

Ya. The other part that is relevant is catchers generally don't play more than 60-70% of the games, to manage wear and tear. While a guy like Varsho is going to play every game.

[JaysAllMighty]

Love this trade! We get to keep Kirk and Jansen, get rid of a dugout clown and in return a power left handed bat, good outfielder + catcher. (Moreno top prospect but you got to pay the piper)

 

Atkins is a genius!

 

[h=1]Daulton Varsho (#12) All 27 Home Runs of the 2022 MLB Season:[/h]

 

[Carlos Danger]

Panic trade is the best way to label it.

 

Struck out on a bunch of free agents.

 

In: Bassitt, Varsho, Swanson

 

Out: Moreno, Teo, Gurri, Stripling

 

Can't say we got better....

 

You are very wrong. We are way better as a Team.

[Krylian]

Daulton Varsho, Kevin Kiermaier, Chris Bassitt, Erik Swanson in... Lourdes, Moreno, Teo out... Is Atkins lowkey a racist?

 

The White Jays are back

[Captain Adama]

So we're expecting KK to get better after coming off a major Hip injury? His whole game is based on speed. Gurriel is the better overall player between the two for next season in my eyes.

 

Yes, I just saw Varsho's breakdown defensively. It's impressive no doubt and exactly what we needed on this team long term. Just not a fan of the price.

 

In context of the team's need, your exactly right that Varsho fits.

 

Sure the price is steep, but maybe front offices aren't valuing Moreno as highly as you are. The lack of power is a concern.

[Grant77]

I don't really understand the plan of this front office.

 

This moves reeks of desperation, as it an absolutely massive overpay in terms of value, even before you account for Gurriel. That might be ok if we were desperate for a CF, but that position had been addressed with the Kiermaier signing. I would have preferred to hang onto Moreno if they weren't able to find a fair trade, which they clearly were not. We paid less for Josh Donaldson. I don't get it.

[Horses Fart]

Tibbs Eve disaster. I dunno.