Blue Jays acquire Daulton Varsho for Moreno and Gurriel

[Ehjays]

Did they make changes to the field? I thought it was all stands. Genuinely asking

 

Fans can expect to see considerable changes to the 33-year-old stadium come next April, Shapiro said during a news conference Thursday. This will include a new outfield fence line that aims to provide new angles to the game.

 

"t will not be a symmetrical outfield fence — there will be some uniqueness to both the height of the outfield fence throughout the outfield and the dimensions," he said, adding that the details will not be revealed just yet, but the coming alterations will keep pitcher-hitter fairness in mind.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/blue-jays-rogers-centre-renovations-1.6534114

[Daniel Labude]

Did they make changes to the field? I thought it was all stands. Genuinely asking

 

Big time

 

 

Its going to be like a wave on the fence from foul pole to foul pole

[John_Havok]

THe thing is, If i was on the diamondbacks side of this, I would probably like the trade too.

 

From their perspective, they dealt from a position of depth, gained a position of need and can afford to take a chance on a Gurriel bounce back cheaply.

[Jimcanuck]

Big time

 

 

Its going to be like a wave onnthe fence from foul pole to foul pole

 

There's no way Teo / Gurriel can deal with that. These moves and the fence changes a pretty clever way to gain a homefield advantage.

[John_Havok]

I don't really understand the plan of this front office.

 

This moves reeks of desperation, as it an absolutely massive overpay in terms of value, even before you account for Gurriel. That might be ok if we were desperate for a CF, but that position had been addressed with the Kiermaier signing. I would have preferred to hang onto Moreno if they weren't able to find a fair trade, which they clearly were not. We paid less for Josh Donaldson. I don't get it.

 

I have very little faith the Gurriel returns to his 2020 form. He can't hit for power, can't field and can't get on base enough to overcome the lack of power (babip fueled 2022 aside) What's left? He's not an everday guy anymore.

[TheHurl]

So we're expecting KK to get better after coming off a major Hip injury? His whole game is based on speed. Gurriel is the better overall player between the two for next season in my eyes.

 

Yes, I just saw Varsho's breakdown defensively. It's impressive no doubt and exactly what we needed on this team long term. Just not a fan of the price.

 

Matt Chapman had his best season defensively and baserunning was identical coming off the exact same surgery, and KK has an additional month of recovery in comparison.

[polar bear]

I think a few players were getting tired of it!

 

And not Vladdy 😳

[Ehjays]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Jays may have said if you get Moreno, you have to take LGJ. So Im ok with losing LGJ.

 

Im not happy about losing Gabby but excited to see our new OF defence also glad Ricky wasnt involved.

[Dick_Pole]

Grant is trolling for a long argument. Gurriel's value is little. The trade values site quoted a couple times here already show the Blue Jays a fair amount ahead. Anyone saying the Jays got fleeced is running on emotion. Argument to be made that this is one of those trades where both sides win.

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

That is the bright side to all of this. Jays went from having one of the worst defensive outfields to one of the best in one off-season

And one of the best offensively, to one of the worst.

[Krylian]

It's interesting that the two main jokesters Teo and Gurriel have been moved. Might be purely a coincidence.

 

LOL. Coincidence. So cute.

[Virgil_Hiltz]

I'm going to be a douche and say that the team that scores 162 runs in a year and gives up none goes 162-0. Conversely, a team that scores 1,000 runs in a year and gives up 838 runs does not go 162-0 in a year. Run prevention is actually MORE important than run scoring. Because lower numbers lead to less variability and greater chance of winning close games. Rather than wasting a bunch of runs on 28-5 games.

 

Less runs allowed also means the SPs can go deeper into games and not using the pen late in the 4th and 5th not nearly as often.

[Daniel Labude]

There's no way Teo / Gurriel can deal with that. These moves and the fence changes a pretty clever way to gain a homefield advantage.

 

They probably weren't resigning either after this next season, so with the field changes and impending loss of Teo and Gurriel they added an OF LHH that they control for 4 years while improving the BP and dealing from a depth position. Its 1 year of Gurriel and Moreno for 4 years of Varsho. Seems pretty damn good when we don't know what Moreno will look like for a full season

[AdamGreenwood]

4 years of control of a 4.6 WAR left-handed hitting outfielder, for an unproven prospect and 1-year of Lourdes, who had a major power drought last year, and is looking decidedly average, and people are crying?

Guys, this is likely a steal. Defense doesn't slump. Varsho was the best defensive outfielder in all of baseball last year.

 

There's a small chance that Moreno is so good, he turns this deal in the Snakes favour, but unlikely given his lack of power, and the fact that catching prospects routinely dissappoint.

 

Top Catching Prospects by year

 

2015 Blake Swihart (18)

2016 Willson Contreras (50)

2017 Carson Kelly (39)

2018 Francisco Mejia (11)

2019 Joey Bart (22)

[Sammy225]

I have very little faith the Gurriel returns to his 2020 form. He can't hit for power, can't field and can't get on base enough to overcome the lack of power (babip fueled 2022 aside) What's left? He's not an everday guy anymore.

 

I am the biggest Gurriel detractor so i always think my view points are skewed a bit. But LF is generally a position where you put your defensive liability but at least you get a monster bat in your lineup. He can't even do that. He has no value as a DH.... Maybe a first baseman but thats about it. i see this as a Moreno Varsho trade with LGJ sprinkled in to make it look better.

[Pendleton]

[John_Havok]

Moreno is the one catching prospect that might actually be a good catcher though, regardless of how his bat turns out.

 

The fact that I'm really intrigued to see how Moreno does in Arizona tells me that both sides got a pretty good deal.

 

Best player in the trade is Varho for sure though. The upside likely favours Arizona IF Moreno becomes Varsho and Gurriel regains his power. But then they'll just let him go anyways and he'll sign somewhere else.

[Abomination]

I feel like the Jays may try to take advantage of the new shift rules with these moves. They may have enough speed in the outfield to let 2 guys basically cover it, with the third guy providing the same benefit previously obtained through the shift (obviously batter dependent).

[Dick_Pole]

Arizona is banking on a big year from Gurriel, a QO and a pick (or July trade) in a year that is unlikely to be competitive for them. Toronto is banking on a bit more breathing room with the cap, and greater roster variability in a year they need every possible win. It makes a lot of sense to be including Gurriel in this deal for both sides. Except for the Jays casuals who haven't actually looked at a stat sheet in 36 months. What exactly do you love about Gurriel? He's a DH, and a DH is worthless below an OPS+ of 120.

[Jimcanuck]

I feel like the Jays may try to take advantage of the new shift rules with these moves. They may have enough speed in the outfield to let 2 guys basically cover it, with the third guy providing the same benefit previously obtained through the shift (obviously batter dependent).

 

Interesting theorem. Springer in LF, KK in CF, and Varsho in RF, make KK the rover for those heavy pull hitters

[bronson44]

So Springer, KK and Varsho has to be the best outfield D in baseball right?

[Jimcanuck]

So Springer, KK and Varsho has to be the best outfield D in baseball right?

 

Without a doubt.

[bronson44]

Without a doubt.

 

Groovy

[Dick_Pole]

 

I absolutely love the marketing material on this. We acquired this Gold Glove all-star hero for these two nameless douchebags. WINNING!!! I already know how those 300+ replies are going.

[Masterbather]

I don't think we're a better team overall than last year. I don't think we're better built for the playoffs outside of the defensive upgrade, but that's not enough.

 

Starting pitching made a lateral move, at best. Need another high end arm and our depth is STILL an issue.

 

Bullpen is better, but not enough pure stuff guys still, and no power LHP either, yet somehow the FO think we have a good pen. What are they watching? By contender standards, it's still only okay.

 

Defense is way better, especially if KK is healthy, I was DONE watching Teo attempt to play OF. I didn't hate LGJ as much but he wasn't lighting the world on fire defensively either.

 

Offense took a step back by losing Teo and LGJ and potentially Moreno and gaining Varsho and KK. Power is no better. I also like contact guys, you need those guys against tough pitching and we lost two good contact/average guys for a couple of high K, low average hitters. Varsho contributes power but KK is garbage at the plate. Moreno is not the guy I wanted to give up of the 3, although I can see arguments for all of them.

 

Overall are we keeping up with the Jones'?

I don't think we are and we already had a gap to close.

 

We're good still, very good even. Not WS contenders.

[Ehjays]

Last year we had the top catching tandem in baseball, We took Gabby and got a 4.6 War CF/C without even changing our teams look.

 

Im a " prospect Hugger' and dont like trading them away But if one had to go between Gabby and Ricky....I would choose Gabby.

[Grant77]

I have very little faith the Gurriel returns to his 2020 form. He can't hit for power, can't field and can't get on base enough to overcome the lack of power (babip fueled 2022 aside) What's left? He's not an everday guy anymore.

 

I think the 116 wRC+ projection for Gurriel is pretty reasonable. He's still a useful everyday outfielder, especially at 5 million. That being said, he doesn't have a particularly large amount of value.

 

The issue for me is giving up an absolutely elite catching prospect to address a need that doesn't exist. I accept that some people view Moreno as more of an average starter going forward and that is a valid opinion. The trade makes some sense if you are in that camp.

 

I was impressed with Moreno. I think he's very strong defensively, if not elite. He's got some of the most impressive bat control I have ever seen from a Blue Jays rookie. I think he's got multiple 5 WAR seasons in him. The Jays FO clearly doesn't believe in him, so I guess we'll have to see.

[Ehjays]

Varsho Highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKiUZNnHIko

[Captain_Obvious]

Two criteria to evaluate the trade:

 

1- Is it a fair trade?

Absolutely. We paid a lot, but what did you expect for f***ing Varsho? I am going to ignore the idiots focusing on his average offensive profile while ignoring his ridiculously good defense and excellent base running. Varsho is one of the best OFs in the game and we get him for 4 prime years. I will also point and laugh at anyone missing Gurriel. Gurriel is a below average MLB player this point. There is a very good chance the trade was Varsho for Moreno initially but it was the Blue Jays who insisted that Arizona takes Gurriel and his $6M.

 

2- Does it improve the team?

Holy f*** it is near perfect. This is a complete shift of Moreno's value from an area of strength to cover an area of weakness. Moreno was never going to put up a 4WAR-5WAR with catcher position occupied by Jansen and Kirk. So how do we squeeze that 4WAR-5WAR out of Moreno the catcher? You find someone as good who plays a position you lack depth and strength at. Gurriel was the weakest link on the team and we had no backup in the minors. This trade allows the Jays to efficiently upgrade Gurriel through Moreno and for multiple years.

 

I originally suggested Kirk for Varsho straight up, but this is close enough.

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/10546-Poll-Which-catcher-would-you-move-in-the-off-season?p=1655812&viewfull=1#post1655812

 

Love it!

[Jimcanuck]

ESPN graded the trade an A for the Diamondbacks and a C for the Jays

 

Who did the grading? Some of the ESPN writers are absolute morons.