Toronto Blue Jays Roster Discussion (2022)

[Stangstag]

IIR that was the same/similar reaction you had when I criticized the the Roark deal and told you he sucked.

 

Ah ok.

 

So I guess Roark = Ryu then right?

 

Who else is going to suck this year? Maybe you should phone Ross and let him know you aren’t happy with the rotation.

[Carlos Danger]

Manoah is number 4. Ryu is, has been, and projects to be a very good pitcher. Whatever concerns you have about him are not based in any logic or facts.

 

I hadn’t checked recently and thought Manoah was in the third spot. Regardless, between age, nagging injuries and inconsistencies, I don’t have a heck of a lot of faith in Ryu to go deep much anymore. (Deep these days is 5 plus or 6).

[Carlos Danger]

Ah ok.

 

So I guess Roark = Ryu then right?

 

Who else is going to suck this year? Maybe you should phone Ross and let him know you aren’t happy with the rotation.

 

I phoned Ross after he signed Roark to a two year deal. Wasn’t too long after he called me back and said Carlos, you were right and DFA’d Roark.

 

With Yisuki we received the Randal Grichuk of pitchers. Great first half, s***** second half. Yisuki sucked in the second half last year and down the stretch/playoff run. Velocity was down and he does not seem durable.

[Spanky99]

I phoned Ross after he signed Roark to a two year deal. Wasn’t too long after he called me back and said Carlos, you were right and DFA’d Roark.

 

With Yisuki we received the Randal Grichuk of pitchers. Great first half, s***** second half. Yisuki sucked in the second half last year and down the stretch/playoff run. Velocity was down and he does not seem durable.

 

Can you not do this again, man. You just triggered my brain, of Aceuki... You Suck Heathen.

[Spanky99]

I hadn’t checked recently and thought Manoah was in the third spot. Regardless, between age, nagging injuries and inconsistencies, I don’t have a heck of a lot of faith in Ryu to go deep much anymore. (Deep these days is 5 plus or 6).

 

That's decent for most MLB pitchers aside from the elite.

[Deadpool]

Nonsense

 

I forgot about this guy...

[Spanky99]

I was on the Jays transactions page, and it shows Collins was optioned to Buffalo, same day as Vasquez was? Hmm...

[Jays24]

We got relief pitching mid season last year for an modest price and they were very good. Let's just see what we have here to start the season.

 

And that mindset when everyone knew our bullpen was already trash was THE reason why we failed to make the playoffs and a chance at a world series last year. Kicking the can down the road comes at a price and hopefully it doesn't make the difference between a top 2 seed vs playing in the Wild Card round.

 

I have already stated that we have the worst bullpen amongst all the elite teams in baseball. I realize not every team can have a perfect roster but this is still our Achilles heel.

[Grant77]

And that mindset when everyone knew our bullpen was already trash was THE reason why we failed to make the playoffs and a chance at a world series last year. Kicking the can down the road comes at a price and hopefully it doesn't make the difference between a top 2 seed vs playing in the Wild Card round.

 

I have already stated that we have the worst bullpen amongst all the elite teams in baseball. I realize not every team can have a perfect roster but this is still our Achilles heel.

 

Before I respond, who do you consider the elite teams? Are San Diego, Philadelphia, and Boston among them?

[The Iceman]

Hatch and Kay and Bowden Francis would be SP 8 to 10 I guess. That's not bad...

 

 

Quite bad with very little upside. I guess Francis could be an emergency fill in.

No more Zeuch, Waguespack, Gaviglio which believe it or not I would prefer.

 

Maybe Luciano is an option

[Terminator]

I was on the Jays transactions page, and it shows Collins was optioned to Buffalo, same day as Vasquez was? Hmm...

 

Good catch. So we are probably going with a 3-man bench and an 11-man bullpen to start the year. The tentative plan for May (when the rosters are cut from 28 to 26 and the 13 pitcher rule goes into effect) is probably to promote Collins and then option 3 relievers.

[The_DH]

Good catch. So we are probably going with a 3-man bench and an 11-man bullpen to start the year. The tentative plan for May (when the rosters are cut from 28 to 26 and the 13 pitcher rule goes into effect) is probably to promote Collins and then option 3 relievers.

 

If Borucki goes on the DL he can be recalled.

[Jays24]

Before I respond, who do you consider the elite teams? Are San Diego, Philadelphia, and Boston among them?

 

You can take a look at the Vegas odds for who is expected to win the World Series. The teams at the top of this list are who we should be comparing ourselves against.

 

This team is missing 1 or 2 shut down relievers that seem to be very important for every World Series winning team. Maybe some of our current guys can become that since the bullpen are such crapshoots but I wish we tried to invest into some this offseason. I want a prime Andrew Miller clone lol.

[Spanky99]

You can take a look at the Vegas odds for who is expected to win the World Series. The teams at the top of this list are who we should be comparing ourselves against.

 

This team is missing 1 or 2 shut down relievers that seem to be very important for every World Series winning team. Maybe some of our current guys can become that since the bullpen are such crapshoots but I wish we tried to invest into some this offseason. I want a prime Andrew Miller clone lol.

 

The bastards... extending Berrios, signing Gausman, Kikuchi, Garcia, Phelps, Vasquez etc... trade for Chapman. Not enough man, hah!!!

[Jays24]

The bastards... extending Berrios, signing Gausman, Kikuchi, Garcia, Phelps, Vasquez etc... trade for Chapman. Not enough man, hah!!!

 

Haha come on man. I did say that every team has holes but if I had to nitpick, we have the same concern that we had last year. That concern was the difference between us making and missing the playoffs. That's all.

[John_Havok]

Haha come on man. I did say that every team has holes but if I had to nitpick, we have the same concern that we had last year. That concern was the difference between us making and missing the playoffs. That's all.

 

Nah. The bullpen was just 1 of the factors. Springer being hurt a good chunk of the year was another. Terrible in game managing from Montoyo was another.

 

There is never just 1 reason why a team misses the playoffs by 1 game.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Nah. The bullpen was just 1 of the factors. Springer being hurt a good chunk of the year was another. Terrible in game managing from Montoyo was another.

 

There is never just 1 reason why a team misses the playoffs by 1 game.

 

Agreed.

 

The Jays also started the season with Roark and Zeuch in their rotation, Ryu started the season as the Jays 'ace' yet by the end of the season he was their worst starter. They had three different "home" venues throughout the season, and IIRC they also played two "home" games in Washington??

 

Lot of things contributed to them missing the playoffs, yet they still managed to win 91 games.

[Grant77]

You can take a look at the Vegas odds for who is expected to win the World Series. The teams at the top of this list are who we should be comparing ourselves against.

 

This team is missing 1 or 2 shut down relievers that seem to be very important for every World Series winning team. Maybe some of our current guys can become that since the bullpen are such crapshoots but I wish we tried to invest into some this offseason. I want a prime Andrew Miller clone lol.

 

I see each of the teams I mentioned in the top 10 contenders on one website. We're probably in better shape than the Mets as well.

 

I want the bullpen to be better too, but there is still time for upgrades and we are far from the worst contender in terms of bullpen quality.

[Spanky99]

I see each of the teams I mentioned in the top 10 contenders on one website. We're probably in better shape than the Mets as well.

 

I want the bullpen to be better too, but there is still time for upgrades and we are far from the worst contender in terms of bullpen quality.

 

Ranked 11th in FG and 9th by mlb.com... with lots of room for regression.

[Jimcanuck]

Ranked 11th in FG and 9th by mlb.com

 

And a signing of Rosenthal and a trade for say, Trivino, likely vaults Toronto into the top 5.

[Carlos Danger]

Our BP is 4th in the division according to a Red Sox writer..

 

https://www.overthemonster.com/2022/4/6/23012539/boston-red-sox-roster-bullpen-matt-barnes-jake-diekman-garrett-whitlock-kutter-crawford-robles

 

 

Division Standing

It’s always hard to judge bullpens from other teams because there are always players who pop up out of nowhere that are hard to see coming unless you follow the team closely on a day-to-day basis. The Yankees, though, I think are still on top with Aroldis Chapman, Jonathan Loáisiga, and Chad Green as a formidable big three, and some good depth behind that. The Rays always have an elite bullpen, so they have to be in the top two and you could probably argue them for being above the Yankees. I went back and forth between the Blue Jays and Red Sox a lot. I think Jordan Romano is the best (especially if we’re not counting Whitlock) reliever between either team, but the depth goes slightly in the favor of Boston, I think. And then Baltimore, well they have one of the worst on-paper bullpens I can remember after trading Cole Sulser and Tanner Scott.

 

Yankees

Rays

Red Sox

Blue Jays

Orioles

[Laika]

Our BP is 4th in the division according to a Red Sox writer..

 

https://www.overthemonster.com/2022/4/6/23012539/boston-red-sox-roster-bullpen-matt-barnes-jake-diekman-garrett-whitlock-kutter-crawford-robles

 

 

Division Standing

It’s always hard to judge bullpens from other teams because there are always players who pop up out of nowhere that are hard to see coming unless you follow the team closely on a day-to-day basis. The Yankees, though, I think are still on top with Aroldis Chapman, Jonathan Loáisiga, and Chad Green as a formidable big three, and some good depth behind that. The Rays always have an elite bullpen, so they have to be in the top two and you could probably argue them for being above the Yankees. I went back and forth between the Blue Jays and Red Sox a lot. I think Jordan Romano is the best (especially if we’re not counting Whitlock) reliever between either team, but the depth goes slightly in the favor of Boston, I think. And then Baltimore, well they have one of the worst on-paper bullpens I can remember after trading Cole Sulser and Tanner Scott.

 

Yankees

Rays

Red Sox

Blue Jays

Orioles

 

I would say that writer is just wrong. Toronto's depth with guys like Cimber, Richards, Phelps, Merryweather is better than Boston's.

[The Cats Ass]

I would say that writer is just wrong. Toronto's depth with guys like Cimber, Richards, Phelps, Merryweather is better than Boston's.

 

What do you expect, it's a Red Sox writer.

[Brownie19]

What do you expect, it's a Red Sox writer.

 

I mean if you're trying to support your point that the Jays bullpen sucks - then you obviously look for division rival writers to help support your position...The odd thing is he seems to think we're all too stupid to notice this.

[Carlos Danger]

I mean if you're trying to support your point that the Jays bullpen sucks - then you obviously look for division rival writers to help support your position...The odd thing is he seems to think we're all too stupid to notice this.

 

If you are talking about, me, I never said our BP sucked, I do think it still needs improvement. I was replying to posters who said it was one of the top 10. It helps to look at things objectively. The writer states it is basically a toss up between the Red Sox and Jays BP. What the Red Sox writer also says, is that the Yankees and Rays have better pens. That is kinda of important when both are in our division and in the context of a playoff push.

 

This is not directed at just you, but it seems like many on here have lost their ability to be objective and are letting homerism or articles from the Toronto Star shape their opinions.

[Deadpool]

Our BP is 4th in the division according to a Red Sox writer..

 

https://www.overthemonster.com/2022/4/6/23012539/boston-red-sox-roster-bullpen-matt-barnes-jake-diekman-garrett-whitlock-kutter-crawford-robles

 

 

Division Standing

It’s always hard to judge bullpens from other teams because there are always players who pop up out of nowhere that are hard to see coming unless you follow the team closely on a day-to-day basis. The Yankees, though, I think are still on top with Aroldis Chapman, Jonathan Loáisiga, and Chad Green as a formidable big three, and some good depth behind that. The Rays always have an elite bullpen, so they have to be in the top two and you could probably argue them for being above the Yankees. I went back and forth between the Blue Jays and Red Sox a lot. I think Jordan Romano is the best (especially if we’re not counting Whitlock) reliever between either team, but the depth goes slightly in the favor of Boston, I think. And then Baltimore, well they have one of the worst on-paper bullpens I can remember after trading Cole Sulser and Tanner Scott.

 

Yankees

Rays

Red Sox

Blue Jays

Orioles

 

This right here is some IN DEPTH analysis.

[Carlos Danger]

This right here is some IN DEPTH analysis.

 

Not wrong though.

[Jimcanuck]

Predicting team bullpen outcomes is a fool's errand.

[TwistedLogic]

[Ray]

Seems like we were in on Semien until the end, according to some of his comments today. Kinda gave the impression that he was close to signing, until the Rangers came in and gave him a stupid amount of money.