General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Stangstag]

The point that I'm making is that the actual penalty for going over the initial limit is very small in the grand scheme of things. The penalty for going over the first tier is only 20% for the first year. If the team is $1 million over they pay a penalty of $20000. If they go over the penalty by the maximum approx. $20 million the penalty for this is still only $4 million. If the budget is there to support going all the way up to the first tier the financial penalties are small enough that this should be little cause for concern.

 

I suppose. They’d have to be careful for 2024 though and probably bust their ass getting back under the threshold. Vlad + Bo will be more expensive and we’ll have a 3B, LF and CF to replace.

[Horses Fart]

I don’t know. Anybody feel a pre Xmas break trade coming? Like a very substantial/blockbuster incoming??? Like a very good left handed AB outfielder and bullpen help all in one.

[G-Snarls]

I don’t know. Anybody feel a pre Xmas break trade coming? Like a very substantial/blockbuster incoming??? Like a very good left handed AB outfielder and bullpen help all in one.

 

I just want an Ohtani for Christmas

[max silver]

I just want an Ohtani for Christmas

 

Might be a little more realistic to ask for an iPad or something.

[G-Snarls]

Might be a little more realistic to ask for an iPad or something.

 

Or a Ferrari

[max silver]

I suppose. They’d have to be careful for 2024 though and probably bust their ass getting back under the threshold. Vlad + Bo will be more expensive and we’ll have a 3B, LF and CF to replace.

 

Hopefully they can wrangle up a long term center field option through trade. If he proves he can hit major league pitching I think Barger is the likely heir apparent for Chapman. I'd love to see Chapman extended but I fail to see how the team can afford extensions for all of Vlad, Bo and Chapman unless they have plans for Steve Cohen levels of spending. It's going to be very interesting to see if they can thread the needle to make all the pieces fit together under the budget.

[Stangstag]

Hopefully they can wrangle up a long term center field option through trade. If he proves he can hit major league pitching I think Barger is the likely heir apparent for Chapman. I'd love to see Chapman extended but I fail to see how the team can afford extensions for all of Vlad, Bo and Chapman unless they have plans for Steve Cohen levels of spending. It's going to be very interesting to see if they can thread the needle to make all the pieces fit together under the budget.

 

Barger solidifying a spot in the infield would be a godsend. Or maybe Orelvis can have a better showing at AA/AAA this year.

[max silver]

Barger solidifying a spot in the infield would be a godsend. Or maybe Orelvis can have a better showing at AA/AAA this year.

 

I hoped that Kevin Smith might be able to convert some of his AAA gains into MLB production, but that's proven to be anything but the case so far. Barger seems to face similar questions as to whether his hit tool will sufficiently transfer to MLB, so I'm not holding my breath. Zips projects league average offence for Barger and Steamer projects a 113 WRC+ so hopefully there's something there.

 

Orelvis had a really disappointing showing in AA this year. It seems as though the club may have made a bit of a miscalculation sending him to this level before he had really displayed mastery over high A pitching. Let's hope he can make some strides this season as the struggles took off a lot of the shine.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Blue Jays Have Shown Interest In Johnny Cueto

By Darragh McDonald | December 14, 2022 at 3:02pm CDT

 

The Blue Jays made a notable addition to their rotation this week by signing right-hander Chris Bassitt to a three-year deal, but they might not be done. Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet reports that the club is open to further additions and have shown recent interest in righty Johnny Cueto.

 

The club has four rotation spots now spoken for, with Alek Manoah, Kevin Gausman, José Berríos and Bassitt all locked in as long as they’re healthy. The final spot in the rotation is a bit less concrete, however. The club signed lefty Yusei Kikuchi to a three-year deal going into 2022 but saw him struggle badly, eventually getting bumped to the bullpen and finishing the year with a 5.19 ERA. Righty Mitch White had a 3.70 ERA with the Dodgers when the Jays acquired him at the deadline, but he posted a 7.74 ERA after the deal. Hyun Jin Ryu underwent Tommy John surgery in June and won’t be an option until the second half of the season even in a best-case scenario. Nate Pearson was once one of the top pitching prospects in baseball but he’s been limited by various injuries to less than 50 innings in each of the past three seasons. Given all that uncertainty at the back end, it’s unsurprising that a win-now club like the Jays would be open to adding a stable veteran.

 

Cueto, 37 in February, surely fits the bill having pitched in each of the past 15 MLB seasons with a career 3.44 ERA. One of the best pitchers in baseball earlier in his career, he’s falling from those incredible heights but has proven himself to still be quite useful of late. He dealt with injuries and was barely able to pitch in 2018 and 2019, then struggled in the shortened 2020 season. However, he’s had a solid return to form in each of the past two campaigns.

 

With the Giants in 2021, he tossed 114 2/3 innings with a 4.08 ERA. His 20% strikeout rate was a bit shy of average, but his 6.1% walk rate was quite strong. He reached free agency after that campaign and lingered on the market after the lockout. He eventually signed a minor league deal with the White Sox in early April, though one that would pay him a prorated $4.2MM salary once in the majors. After getting built up to a starter’s workload, he made it back to the big leagues in May and eventually tossed 158 1/3 innings for the Pale Hose with a 3.35 ERA. Similar to the year before, he didn’t rack up the strikeouts, finishing with a 15.7% rate. However, his control was even better, as he walked just 5.1% of batters faced. He got grounders on 42.6% of balls in play and limited hard contact, coming in the 67th percentile in terms of hard hit percentage and 69th percentile in terms of average exit velocity.

 

Given Cueto’s age, he will likely be limited to a one-year deal but he should still earn a decent salary. He’s coming off a stronger platform than he was one year ago and the market for starting pitching has been quite strong overall this year. The free agent market still has a few surefire starters in Carlos Rodón, Nathan Eovaldi, Noah Syndergaard and Michael Wacha, but Cueto is one of the more attractive options outside of that group. Others include Corey Kluber, Drew Smyly and Drew Rucinski.

 

Notably, the Blue Jays are now positioned to pay the competitive balance tax for the first time in franchise history. The recent signings of Bassitt and Kevin Kiermaier have nudged the team just barely over the $233MM threshold, according to Roster Resource. It’s always possible that they could make a trade that puts them back under, but it seems possible the club is willing to stay over the line by season’s end. If that is indeed the case, then perhaps they are willing to spend a bit more to add Cueto or someone similar to their pitching staff. Nicholson-Smith relays that president Mark Shapiro recently said that the CBT is “not an obstacle” for ownership. “The support and the growth of that payroll is unprecedented in the history of the franchise and it continues to be very strong.”

 

It’s unclear how high they plan on taking the payroll, but they appear to be targeting areas other than the rotation. Nicholson-Smith reiterates their known interest in outfielders and adds that they have been showing interest in “high-upside relievers” even after acquiring Erik Swanson in the Teoscar Hernández trade earlier this winter. No names are listed as specific targets, but some of the top relief names on the open market are Taylor Rogers, Andrew Chafin, Adam Ottavino and Michael Fulmer. Nicholson-Smith adds on Twitter that it’s possible the Jays are more likely to add in the bullpen than the rotation, despite the interest in Cueto.

 

 

 

I would love this.

 

Manoah

Gausman

Berrios

Bassitt

Cueto

Kikuchi

White

 

Zulueta

Tiedemann

 

Pretty solid starting pitching and tons of depth.

[Carlos Danger]

I don’t know. Anybody feel a pre Xmas break trade coming? Like a very substantial/blockbuster incoming??? Like a very good left handed AB outfielder and bullpen help all in one.

 

His name is Varsho. Go balls deep and get Jameson also and I would jizz all over this board for a week straight.

[Jimcanuck]

His name is Varsho. Go balls deep and get Jameson also and I would jizz all over this board for a week straight.

 

We are well aware of your mancrush, Carlos.

[glory]

I suppose. They’d have to be careful for 2024 though and probably bust their ass getting back under the threshold. Vlad + Bo will be more expensive and we’ll have a 3B, LF and CF to replace.

 

That's what the Dodgers appear to be doing this year, and what the Yankees did prior to 2022. Go over the threshold for a couple of years, then cut costs in one off season to get under so that the penalties reset, and then go over again. I agree that if the Jays are going over it this year then they should really go over it. Get Brantley/Conforto, get another high leverage RP, etc. Cutting costs in 2024 or 2025 is doable, but they'd need to add some pre-arb level talent at key positions to avoid having to overpay to fix holes. Not sure where that's going to come from other than Moreno. Hopefully we see Barger become a 3B option for 2024, and a catcher gets traded for a young OF/CF. Luckily 4/5 starters in the rotation are locked up for the next 3 years so at least there's some cost certainty there.

[RobinThicc]

 

Sounds like Buck will be back next year with Shulman. He also was not pleased with Tabler not coming back.

[wilko]

 

Sounds like Buck will be back next year with Shulman. He also was not pleased with Tabler not coming back.

 

Sucks for Tabler. For what he was, he was good at it and comes off as a genuinely nice guy.

[Ehjays]

They’re both bad but I’d rather listen to Tabler than Martinez.

 

I agree, this sounds bad, but I feel that had Buck not been ill last year, I think he would have been the guy not renewed, They didnt want the bad PR and so they let Tabler go. I am just glad we have Shulman doing every game now.

[Jimcanuck]

Problem with Buck and Tabby, besides their weaknesses in the booth, is they are old. Fans 40 and under have no clue about their playing careers and don't care. In other words, the best before date for Buck and Tabby is long past.

[John_Havok]

 

Sounds like Buck will be back next year with Shulman. He also was not pleased with Tabler not coming back.

 

When a contract is over, both parties need to be amenable to returning. Just because the contractor wants to come back doesn’t mean the employer is bound by some weird sense of loyalty an obligation to extend an offer.

 

Buck sounds like he’s grandpa Simpson yelling at clouds again.

[John_Havok]

Sucks for Tabler. For what he was, he was good at it and comes off as a genuinely nice guy.

 

Probably an extremely nice guy, but I hated listening to his voice and his whole way of analyzing was just tired and old. Need fresh blood

[Laika]

Pat Tabler brought absolutely nothing to the broadcasts, unfortunately for him.

 

Just boring.

[Pendleton]

Pat Tabler brought absolutely nothing to the broadcasts, unfortunately for him.

 

Just boring.

 

You remember this the next time some new relief pitcher comes along and we have no one there to give us a vivid description of his shoulders and thighs.

[Brownie19]

I'm certainly not a fan of either, but I think I preferred Tabler. Buck says things all the time that are just plain wrong/false and never misses an opportunity to rip 'new age' baseball and tell us about how things used to be better in the good ole days. It's like he's angry with the changes to the game.

[Laika]

I'm certainly not a fan of either, but I think I preferred Tabler. Buck says things all the time that are just plain wrong/false and never misses an opportunity to rip 'new age' baseball and tell us about how things used to be better in the good ole days. It's like he's angry with the changes to the game.

 

I don't like what Buck says

 

But when he is doing colour commentary at least he adds some personality to the broadcast

 

He's intolerably bad at play by play though

[Sorrow]

I don't get the love affair with Daulton Varsho. Yes he had a great season but f*** he's a league average bat with a terrible savant page.

[Omar]

When a contract is over, both parties need to be amenable to returning. Just because the contractor wants to come back doesn’t mean the employer is bound by some weird sense of loyalty an obligation to extend an offer.

 

Buck sounds like he’s grandpa Simpson yelling at clouds again.

 

I agree with the sentiment here. Some media types think they should have a job guaranteed for life. If you’ve had a run exceeding 20 years there shouldn’t be a lot to bitch about. Take note, Lisa Laflamme, Rod Black, Bob Mccown, Leo Rautins….

[Ryu In My House]

he's a tire fire, bats right, and hasn't played in the MLB a couple of years now, but I wonder if Yasiel Puig would be an interesting ST invite. I don't think he's been re-signed in the KBO. It wouldn't take much to bring him I bet.

[Laika]

I don't get the love affair with Daulton Varsho. Yes he had a great season but f*** he's a league average bat with a terrible savant page.

 

It's just so weird that a CATCHER became such a good defensive CF instantly.

 

I know it's 1.5 seasons of data at this point but I am still a bit skeptical

[Pendleton]

It's just so weird that a CATCHER became such a good defensive CF instantly.

 

I know it's 1.5 seasons of data at this point but I am still a bit skeptical

 

BA suggested the possibility in the off season following his draft selection. I only recall this because I drafted him in LoD that winter and asked JFL to post his BA profile.

 

Ah, the old catcher who might turn into a CF prospect.

 

____

 

 

Track Record: The son of big leaguer Gary Varsho and the namesake of his father's former teammate, Darren Daulton, Varsho came off a huge junior season at Wisconsin-Milwaukee when the D-backs selected him 68th overall. He led the Horizon League in batting average (.362), on-base percentage (.490) and slugging (.643), then in his pro debut led the short-season Northwest League with a .902 OPS.

 

Scouting Report: Varsho has an unusual profile in that he's a catcher who runs better than he throws--but most believe he will hit. With short arms producing a compact lefthanded swing, he has a mature approach, a good feel for the strike zone and makes consistent loud contact, showing power to all fields. His lack of arm strength is a concern, but D-backs coaches clocked his pop times on throws to second base as low as 1.9 seconds. If catching doesn't pan out, Varsho runs well enough to be a solid left fielder, and he might even be an option in center field or at second base.

 

The Future: Some believe in Varsho's hitting potential to the extent that they might move him to a less grueling position to hasten his development. He has a chance to start at high Class A Visalia in 2018.

 

Read more at https://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2018-arizona-diamondbacks-top-10-prospects/#8iVjkyz1PwRM53sb.99

 

I guess they didn't necessarily suggest he'd be a good CF, just that could end up playing the position.

[Laika]

BA suggested the possibility in the off season following his draft selection. I only recall this because I drafted him in LoD that winter and asked JFL to post his BA profile.

 

I guess they didn't necessarily suggest he'd be a good CF, just that could end up playing the position.

 

Yeah kind of seems like he was miscast as a catcher?

 

The part where he has elite CF instincts would just be random luck for Arizona.

[L54]

he's a tire fire, bats right, and hasn't played in the MLB a couple of years now, but I wonder if Yasiel Puig would be an interesting ST invite. I don't think he's been re-signed in the KBO. It wouldn't take much to bring him I bet.

 

I think Puig is going to jail

[L54]

Varsho scouting report sounds like Harry Ford