General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[InsideThePark]

With the KK signing the Jays are back at 40. So who is next on the chopping block with the next signing?

 

Merryweather, Gage. Capra?

 

Capra is already off the 40 man.

 

I would guess Hatch or Kay. Merryweather is also likely given he has no options and making the 26 man roster next April is looking very unlikely

[The_DH]

Ryu will be able to go on 60 day when spring starts. That frees one spot up.

[The Iceman]

And it's not like those mid-80's teams weren't actively trying to improve the pen like this regime is. Remember Dennis Lamp and Bill Caudell? I don't, but your dad does. It's funny because the two best guys they picked up pretty much by accident. Henke as comp for Cliff Johnson leaving and Ward for some dude they picked off the scrap bin in Doyle Alexander, got his best years then sent him packing. It'll eventually happen to this team too.

 

YEAH, I am an old dad. i will take this one

Steinbrenner demanded Doyle Alexander the soft throwing veteran be released.

He claimed that he was going to kill an infielder he threw so many awful/fat pitches. Can you imagine an owner saying that today?

 

Anyways he was claimed by the Jays as a 32 year old and finished the season with the team. He came back as a 33 year old and had back to back 260+ innings piched each season. Garnered some MVP votes each season.

Alexander was the winning pitcher in 1995...edit 1985 clinching the first ever penant for the Jays (Before wild card).

Doyle pitched a complete game 5 hitter and if you have ever seen George Bell fall to his knees in LF after making the routine catch...that was Doyle on the mound.

The next season Doyle was trade 1 for1 for Duane Ward.

 

Ward was a no name young starting pitcher that didn't strike anyone out and ended a few minor league seasons with more BB than Ks.

 

He started for the Jays only twice as he transitioned him to the BP.

He started to find his control, and also developed one of the nastiest sliders in the league.

 

At the height of his Jays career batters would rather face Henke than Ward and he was a massive part of the teams success.

 

And there you have the rest of the story.

Edited December 11, 2022 by The Iceman

[RobinThicc]

Sign Conforto and trade Jansen for the best starter you can get.

[Captain_Obvious]

Sign Conforto and trade Jansen for the best starter you can get.

 

Who is this best starter you can get?

[max silver]

Who is this best starter you can get?

 

For Jansen? Probably nobody to get overly excited about.

[Captain_Obvious]

For Jansen? Probably nobody to get overly excited about.

 

Exactly. So let Jansen provide his 130 wRC+ and hope he stays healthy to get 4+ WAR from him. As much as I would like to see Moreno on the team, he is still 23 and could start in AAA until a good trade is available.

[gruber92]

Ross will sign Michael Brantley and call it a day as far as the outfield is concerned. Could probably sign him short term, one plus a team option. Benintendi probably looking for at least three years.

[Jimcanuck]

Rolling with Springer, KK, Gurriell, and Benintendi or Conforto is a perfectly fine OF

[Ehjays]

YEAH, I am an old dad. i will take this one

Steinbrenner demanded Doyle Alexander the soft throwing veteran be released.

He claimed that he was going to kill an infielder he threw so many awful/fat pitches. Can you imagine an owner saying that today?

 

Anyways he was claimed by the Jays as a 32 year old and finished the season with the team. He came back as a 33 year old and had back to back 260+ innings piched each season. Garnered some MVP votes each season.

Alexander was the winning pitcher in 1995 clinching the first ever penant for the Jays (Before wild card).

Doyle pitched a complete game 5 hitter and if you have ever seen George Bell fall to his knees in LF after making the routine catch...that was Doyle on the mound.

The next season Doyle was trade 1 for1 for Duane Ward.

 

Ward was a no name young starting pitcher that didn't strike anyone out and ended a few minor league seasons with more BB than Ks.

 

He started for the Jays only twice as he transitioned him to the BP.

He started to find his control, and also developed one of the nastiest sliders in the league.

 

At the height of his Jays career batters would rather face Henke than Ward and he was a massive part of the teams success.

 

And there you have the rest of the story.

 

Im sure you meant 1985, but yes Atlanta traded Ward for Dolye, then they turned around a few months later and sent Dolye to Detroit for John Smoltz

Edited December 11, 2022 by Ehjays

[max silver]

Rolling with Springer, KK, Gurriell, and Benintendi or Conforto is a perfectly fine OF

 

I can even convince myself that Brantley would be a pretty decent addition as well, although that would not help in any way in breaking up the DH logjam the club is already faced with. I would certainly prefer Conforto as a primary target with Benintendi second though.

[Eat My Shatkins]

No point in trading Jansen "for the best starter you can get"

 

Might as well just try to sign one of the free agent starters still available, like Thor, Kluber, Wacha, Stripling or even Manaea as any of those guys are probably better than any starter you get straight up for Jansen IMO

[Stangstag]

Who is this best starter you can get?

 

Probably someone like Urquidy

[Stangstag]

Rolling with Springer, KK, Gurriell, and Benintendi or Conforto is a perfectly fine OF

 

Yeah the key is the final add, which hasn’t happened yet.

[THANOS]

Sign Conforto and trade Jansen for the best starter you can get.

 

Or sign Conforto and trade Kirk for Cristian Javier (they're dead even on BTV and looking at FG, that checks out).

[FantasyNewb]

Probably someone like Urquidy

 

Eww!

[Carlos Danger]

Eww!

 

Don’t get this one. I would love to have Urquidy.

[Key22]

My only concern so far is that this team as it stands now is considerably WORSE than the team on the last day of the Post Season.

 

We are down Stripling's rather excellent year

We are down one major RHB in Teo.

 

We replaced JBJ and Zimmer's defence with KK but he's a lousy hitter. So you don't really gain anything here - at least nothing that moves the needle.

 

If you trade Kirk or Jansen - you lose even more office.

 

I am not upset at the Jays - You can't do much if another owner or two get nutty like the Mets but I don't see too many avenues to improve. They would need to sign at least someone as good as Stripling and a bat that is at least as good as Teo just to remain as good as they were at the end of the season. One bullpen arm isn't moving the needle much.

 

Conforto is nice in theory but anytime a guy misses an entire season with a shoulder problem - well - it's tough to get too excited that you're getting some sort of all-star on day one. He's sort of a guy you get when you're out of better options. If he is 100% great but if he was he'd probably be signed by now.

 

Good news is that Ryu is off the books after next season.

[Captain_Obvious]

My only concern so far is that this team as it stands now is considerably WORSE than the team on the last day of the Post Season.

 

We are down Stripling's rather excellent year

We are down one major RHB in Teo.

 

We replaced JBJ and Zimmer's defence with KK but he's a lousy hitter. So you don't really gain anything here - at least nothing that moves the needle.

 

If you trade Kirk or Jansen - you lose even more office.

 

I am not upset at the Jays - You can't do much if another owner or two get nutty like the Mets but I don't see too many avenues to improve. They would need to sign at least someone as good as Stripling and a bat that is at least as good as Teo just to remain as good as they were at the end of the season. One bullpen arm isn't moving the needle much.

 

Conforto is nice in theory but anytime a guy misses an entire season with a shoulder problem - well - it's tough to get too excited that you're getting some sort of all-star on day one. He's sort of a guy you get when you're out of better options. If he is 100% great but if he was he'd probably be signed by now.

 

Good news is that Ryu is off the books after next season.

 

I disagree we are considerably worse. We keep believing offensive contribution provides higher value than defensive contributions when it does not. Springer in CF, Teo in RF, and Gurriel/Tapia in LF is much worse defensively than Kiermaier in CF, Springer in RF, and Gurriel/ in LF.

 

The bullpen should be better with Bass and Swanson here from the start. Regression from Manoah is hopefully mitigated with improvement from Berrios. Hopefully we can replace most of Striplings's production with a FA signing.

[FantasyNewb]

Don’t get this one. I would love to have Urquidy.

 

He was a 1.1 win player last year, projects for the same next year, with a mid-4s FIP. But above all that, have you seen his Savant page? Again, eww!

[L54]

I disagree we are considerably worse. We keep believing offensive contribution provides higher value than defensive contributions when it does not. Springer in CF, Teo in RF, and Gurriel/Tapia in LF is much worse defensively than Kiermaier in CF, Springer in RF, and Gurriel/ in LF.

 

The bullpen should be better with Bass and Swanson here from the start. Regression from Manoah is hopefully mitigated with improvement from Berrios. Hopefully we can replace most of Striplings's production with a FA signing.

 

Agreed. The team is not considerably worse than the end of the year. In fact the team is better than it was to start the season last year and they have the entire season to make additions/call up players like they did this year.

 

Remember they had guys like Katoh and Collins on the bench to start the year last year. That won’t be the case this year.

[Virgil_Hiltz]

YEAH, I am an old dad. i will take this one

Steinbrenner demanded Doyle Alexander the soft throwing veteran be released.

He claimed that he was going to kill an infielder he threw so many awful/fat pitches. Can you imagine an owner saying that today?

 

Anyways he was claimed by the Jays as a 32 year old and finished the season with the team. He came back as a 33 year old and had back to back 260+ innings piched each season. Garnered some MVP votes each season.

Alexander was the winning pitcher in 1995...edit 1985 clinching the first ever penant for the Jays (Before wild card).

Doyle pitched a complete game 5 hitter and if you have ever seen George Bell fall to his knees in LF after making the routine catch...that was Doyle on the mound.

The next season Doyle was trade 1 for1 for Duane Ward.

 

Ward was a no name young starting pitcher that didn't strike anyone out and ended a few minor league seasons with more BB than Ks.

 

He started for the Jays only twice as he transitioned him to the BP.

He started to find his control, and also developed one of the nastiest sliders in the league.

 

At the height of his Jays career batters would rather face Henke than Ward and he was a massive part of the teams success.

 

And there you have the rest of the story.

 

Thank you Paul Harvey 😀

[The_DH]

Thank you Paul Harvey ��

 

I remember when we got him: he was horrible with the Yankees and started off the season with no wins and a couple of losses. Then he got released, signed with Toronto and lost a bunch of games. Then he turned it around and won a bunch in a row. The effect of Steinbrenner on him was pretty severe. He was one of the pitchers that used to call his own game and tell the catcher. With Stieb and Clancy, he was the complete opposite, he barely touched 80 and was all about location and never throwing the same thing twice. Even threw a knuckler a few times.

[Stangstag]

My only concern so far is that this team as it stands now is considerably WORSE than the team on the last day of the Post Season.

 

We are down Stripling's rather excellent year

We are down one major RHB in Teo.

 

We replaced JBJ and Zimmer's defence with KK but he's a lousy hitter. So you don't really gain anything here - at least nothing that moves the needle.

 

If you trade Kirk or Jansen - you lose even more office.

 

I am not upset at the Jays - You can't do much if another owner or two get nutty like the Mets but I don't see too many avenues to improve. They would need to sign at least someone as good as Stripling and a bat that is at least as good as Teo just to remain as good as they were at the end of the season. One bullpen arm isn't moving the needle much.

 

Conforto is nice in theory but anytime a guy misses an entire season with a shoulder problem - well - it's tough to get too excited that you're getting some sort of all-star on day one. He's sort of a guy you get when you're out of better options. If he is 100% great but if he was he'd probably be signed by now.

 

Good news is that Ryu is off the books after next season.

 

The offseason isn’t even half over yet

[Sorrow]

I don't get this Kiermaier is a bad hitter take. He's below average but is still like a 90wRC+ bat. It's like having Tapia but not being bad at everything.

[mphenhef]

Agreed. The team is not considerably worse than the end of the year. In fact the team is better than it was to start the season last year and they have the entire season to make additions/call up players like they did this year.

 

Remember they had guys like Katoh and Collins on the bench to start the year last year. That won’t be the case this year.

 

That was due to injuries...I'm not sure you can count that out yet.

[Jimcanuck]

ZIPS is out for the Jays

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2023-zips-projections-toronto-blue-jays/

[John_Havok]

ZIPS is out for the Jays

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2023-zips-projections-toronto-blue-jays/

 

Yeah. It's a very expectedly blah read. Projected to be really good, but probably not good enough.

 

Couple highlights:

 

"Toronto has a billion one-WAR infielders in the minors, like they obtained a slightly blemished mold from the Joey Wendle factory."

 

"If the Yankees are really in on Carlos Rodón, the Blue Jays should be willing to beat nearly any non-crazy offer they make"

 

"Among pitchers with 100 projected innings who are likely to be on a major league roster, Manoah is the third-largest ZiPS/Steamer ERA disagreement among the teams I’ve run (3.43/4.11). Incidentally, the others are Patrick Corbin (5.11/4.38) and Stephen Strasburg (3.74/4.50). In fifth place, going in the other direction, is Yusei Kikuchi (4.49/3.93)."

[Jimcanuck]

ZIPS is really high on Tiedemann was my main takeaway.

[Brownie19]

ZIPS is really high on Tiedemann was my main takeaway.

 

They show Ryu making 21 starts. Is that a real possibility this year? TIL we have a guy named Davis Schneider in the system. Should I care? ZIPS thinks he's solid.