General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[max silver]

Still some interesting relievers out there too.

 

Taylor Rogers

Craig Kimbrel

Trevor Williams

Trevor Rosenthal

Andrew Chafin

Michael Fulmer

Seth Lugo

Matt Moore

 

Although I doubt any closers will want to come to TO with Romano here, unless they're OK setting up in high leverage.

 

Williams is off the board now, reportedly to start for the Nationals.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Other than Rodon, Correa and Swanson there are no more FA's that are worth signing to long term big money deals, so I think the Jays should aim for some pillow contracts.

 

 

Sign Gallo 1 x $10m

Sign Conforto 1 x $12m

Sign JBJ 1 x $3m

Sign Rogers 2 x $15m ($7.5m AAV)

 

Trade Jansen, Espinal (36.7 TV) to Miami for Lopez (38.7 TV)

 

 

C Kirk

1B Vlad

2B Merrifield

3B Chapman

SS Bo

LF Gurriel / Gallo

CF Springer

RF Conforto

DH Rotating Gallo/Gurriel/Springer/Vladdy/Kirk

 

C Moreno

OF JBJ

UT Biggio

BE Spot open for Lopez / Lukes / Barger / Horwitz / T. Morris / some other FA

 

 

SP Manoah

SP Gausman

SP Lopez

SP Berrios

SP Kikuchi

 

CL Romano

SU Rogers

SU Swanson

RP Garcia

RP Bass

RP Cimber

RP Pearson

RP White

 

Depth relievers - Mayza, Pop, Richards, Merryweather

[Ron tokama]

Other than Rodon, Correa and Swanson there are no more FA's that are worth signing to long term big money deals, so I think the Jays should aim for some pillow contracts.

 

 

Sign Gallo 1 x $10m

Sign Conforto 1 x $12m

Sign JBJ 1 x $3m

Sign Rogers 2 x $15m ($7.5m AAV)

 

Trade Jansen, Espinal (36.7 TV) to Miami for Lopez (38.7 TV)

 

 

C Kirk

1B Vlad

2B Merrifield

3B Chapman

SS Bo

LF Gurriel / Gallo

CF Springer

RF Conforto

DH Rotating Gallo/Gurriel/Springer/Vladdy/Kirk

 

C Moreno

OF JBJ

UT Biggio

BE Spot open for Lopez / Lukes / Barger / Horwitz / T. Morris / some other FA

 

 

SP Manoah

SP Gausman

SP Lopez

SP Berrios

SP Kikuchi

 

CL Romano

SU Rogers

SU Swanson

RP Garcia

RP Bass

RP Cimber

RP Pearson

RP White

 

Depth relievers - Mayza, Pop, Richards, Merryweather

 

Marlins aren’t trading Lopez for a couple bench players, come on now.

[Brownie19]

Marlins aren’t trading Lopez for a couple bench players, come on now.

 

141 wRC+ hitting catcher and an All Star 2nd baseman Ron. C'mon now.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Marlins aren’t trading Lopez for a couple bench players, come on now.

 

Of course they wouldn't trade him for a couple bench players.

 

Good thing that's not what Jansen and Espinal are.

 

WAR last year

 

Jansen 2.6

Espinal 2.3

 

Lopez 2.8

 

Projected

 

Jansen 2.8

Espinal 2.4

 

Lopez 2.8

[Ehjays]

 

He signed a one day contract with the Jays to retire a Jay because he was drafted a Jay and gave team friendly contracts to the jays while recruiting other star free agents for the Jays only to be killed and have his wife decide no team on his placque because "both teams were equally important" she says. F U Brandy. Sorry still pissed.

[Terminator]

 

He signed a one day contract with the Jays to retire a Jay because he was drafted a Jay and gave team friendly contracts to the jays while recruiting other star free agents for the Jays only to be killed and have his wife decide no team on his placque because "both teams were equally important" she says. F U Brandy. Sorry still pissed.

 

She's the worst

[Stangstag]

 

He signed a one day contract with the Jays to retire a Jay because he was drafted a Jay and gave team friendly contracts to the jays while recruiting other star free agents for the Jays only to be killed and have his wife decide no team on his placque because "both teams were equally important" she says. F U Brandy. Sorry still pissed.

 

Yeah selfish decision on her part

[keggy]

He signed a one day contract with the Jays to retire a Jay because he was drafted a Jay and gave team friendly contracts to the jays while recruiting other star free agents for the Jays only to be killed and have his wife decide no team on his placque because "both teams were equally important" she says. F U Brandy. Sorry still pissed.

 

Halladay was incredibly loyal to Toronto. If Ricciardi didn't alienate him for no reason he would've retired a lifelong Jay.

[The Cats Ass]

Rodon

Bassit

Eovaldi

Manaea

Kluber

Stripling

Wacha

Syndergaard

Smyly

 

 

My hope is Senga though

 

Sign one of these guys and I'm ok with the rotation I think.

 

Then trade for an OFer, preferably a capable CFer

 

A lot of starters left at the moment. And I'm fine with going into spring training with #5 being a competition. Internally we have guys who have the potential to step up; Kikuchi, White, Bowden Francis, Nate "dare I say" Pearson. Maybe try to sign 1 or 2 dead cats to minor league contracts to add to that bunch.

[Jonn]

Rodon

Bassit

Eovaldi

Manaea

Kluber

Stripling

Wacha

Syndergaard

Smyly

 

 

My hope is Senga though

 

Sign one of these guys and I'm ok with the rotation I think.

 

Then trade for an OFer, preferably a capable CFer

 

Senga doesn’t want to play in Canada. He refused a visit.

[Deadpool]

A lot of starters left at the moment. And I'm fine with going into spring training with #5 being a competition. Internally we have guys who have the potential to step up; Kikuchi, White, Bowden Francis, Nate "dare I say" Pearson. Maybe try to sign 1 or 2 dead cats to minor league contracts to add to that bunch.

 

Add Zulu and Tiedemann to the rotation mix.

 

Not that I think it's likely, but they'll be given a chance to earn that role, I'm sure.

[Jays24]

Scoring runs was absolutely not this team's problem, so this shouldn't be the major focus. We've got more than enough thump in the lineup w/o Teo to score the runs we'll need.

 

That being said, they'll bring in an OF, 100%, but it may not be the clean-up hitter of the future.

 

This is where I feel people are wrong. Just because we did well offensively last year does not mean we are able to take one of the best contributors out without being much better in other areas. Our bullpen, defense and starting pitching has not gotten better enough to offset that particular loss.

 

And yes, I understand there's still a lot of offseason left but just addressing that train of thought as we currently stand.

[Jays24]

They haven't done a very good job of developing cheap young talent that can step in and be meaningful pieces to the roster...especially in the pen. That should theoretically be the easiest place to do it. If you don't have a steady pipeline of talent coming up ready to step in year after year, you have to spend more than Rogers wants to.

 

Exactly... What Shatkins promised everyone was a constant wave of young talent being infused into the big league squad to build a "sustainable winner."

 

Well, let's see who the next wave will be once the Vladdy and Bo extensions kick in because no chance we are going to spend 250M on a payroll lol.

[Jays24]

Halladay was incredibly loyal to Toronto. If Ricciardi didn't alienate him for no reason he would've retired a lifelong Jay.

 

Doubt it had anything to do with Riccairdi. He still signed that 1 day deal to retire as a Jay.

 

From everything out there, Brandy didn't appreciate how the Jays aka Shatkins treated him during his post playing career. Shatkins is pretty much hated by the 2015 team and had a really rough run with their PR during their early years.

[Carlos Danger]

If we can get Bassit at 4 yrs after Rondon is asking for 7, we should do that in a heartbeat!

[Eat My Shatkins]

Senga doesn’t want to play in Canada. He refused a visit.

 

Well that sucks f***ing ass

[Krylian]

Senga doesn’t want to play in Canada. He refused a visit.

 

If there was a team in Vancouver he'd be interested.

[L54]

This is where I feel people are wrong. Just because we did well offensively last year does not mean we are able to take one of the best contributors out without being much better in other areas. Our bullpen, defense and starting pitching has not gotten better enough to offset that particular loss.

 

And yes, I understand there's still a lot of offseason left but just addressing that train of thought as we currently stand.

 

Rinse and repeat

[THANOS]

Senga doesn’t want to play in Canada. He refused a visit.

 

Did he really though? Unless I'm missing some recent, he only told reports he's been to 1 country, that doesn't mean he didn't speak with the Blue Jays in Dunedin at, say, their Player Development Complex, which actually would make sense, since they use that to help lure FAs.

 

Remember the reports of Liam Hendricks seeing shown around the Complex, same with Springer.

[Krylian]

Did he really though? Unless I'm missing some recent, he only told reports he's been to 1 country, that doesn't mean he didn't speak with the Blue Jays in Dunedin at, say, their Player Development Complex, which actually would make sense, since they use that to help lure FAs.

 

Remember the reports of Liam Hendricks seeing shown around the Complex, same with Springer.

 

Feels like a reach. If he said he's only visited one country I don't think he was playing in semantics.

[Jimcanuck]

I'm sure the Jays and Kodai's agent have talked. The fact he hasn't visited Canada doesn't mean we should accept Jonn's hyberbole lol

[Krylian]

Regardless if he met with the Jays or not, I don't think the Jays are comfortable offering what he's looking for (and will likely get).

[Brownie19]

Shatkins were given a big budget and a blank slate while being given the best player on the team currently (Vlad). It's been 7 years since they've been here so everything should be solely on them and no one else.

 

Now we're still World Series contenders who just need to patch up a few major holes to really take that next step. Let's hope Shatkins can make that happen or else their asses won't be here in a few years.

 

They haven't done a very good job of developing cheap young talent that can step in and be meaningful pieces to the roster...especially in the pen. That should theoretically be the easiest place to do it. If you don't have a steady pipeline of talent coming up ready to step in year after year, you have to spend more than Rogers wants to.

 

I disagree with this.

 

They inherited an old team that had hung onto competing far too long. The first 3-4 years was spent rebuilding/retooling. The team developed their core tandem of Vlad/Bo and have surrounded them with a lot of young and/or cheap talent:

 

Manoah

Kirk

Teo (whom they got for free)

Jansen

Moreno

Romano

Espinal (whom they got for free)

 

That's 5 All Stars, the #1 prospect in baseball and Danny f***ing Jansen (aka 141 wRC+ Danny Jansen) that they have developed and surrounded the 'big 2' with since their debut in 2019. Obviously Moreno is part of the next wave, as is Zulo, Teids, Barriera, Gabby, Juenger, Macko, Barger, Doughty, etc.

 

There are teams that have 'done it better' than the Jays since 2019 (LA, Cards), but I don't think there are many...

[Laika]

I disagree with this.

 

They inherited an old team that had hung onto competing far too long. The first 3-4 years was spent rebuilding/retooling. The team developed their core tandem of Vlad/Bo and have surrounded them with a lot of young and/or cheap talent:

 

Manoah

Kirk

Teo (whom they got for free)

Jansen

Moreno

Romano

Espinal (whom they got for free)

 

That's 5 All Stars, the #1 prospect in baseball and Danny f***ing Jansen (aka 141 wRC+ Danny Jansen) that they have developed and surrounded the 'big 2' with since their debut in 2019. Obviously Moreno is part of the next wave, as is Zulo, Teids, Barriera, Gabby, Juenger, Macko, Barger, Doughty, etc.

 

There are teams that have 'done it better' than the Jays since 2019 (LA, Cards), but I don't think there are many...

 

Good post

 

Also, the “they inherited Vlad” criticism should be dead at this point since he’s only been a difference maker in one of four mlb seasons.

 

Some people will never be happy. They bring up instant stars like Kirk and Manoah and people just look right past them

[Jays24]

I disagree with this.

 

They inherited an old team that had hung onto competing far too long. The first 3-4 years was spent rebuilding/retooling. The team developed their core tandem of Vlad/Bo and have surrounded them with a lot of young and/or cheap talent:

 

Manoah

Kirk

Teo (whom they got for free)

Jansen

Moreno

Romano

Espinal (whom they got for free)

 

That's 5 All Stars, the #1 prospect in baseball and Danny f***ing Jansen (aka 141 wRC+ Danny Jansen) that they have developed and surrounded the 'big 2' with since their debut in 2019. Obviously Moreno is part of the next wave, as is Zulo, Teids, Barriera, Gabby, Juenger, Macko, Barger, Doughty, etc.

 

There are teams that have 'done it better' than the Jays since 2019 (LA, Cards), but I don't think there are many...

 

I definitely don't think they've screwed up so hope that wasn't what you got from my post. They also haven't done well enough to get a much longer leash. Everything we see on the field is exactly how they wanted and they've been given enough time and money to do so.

 

In my eyes, Atkins has this upcoming season for the team to make some noise or he'll be gone. Shapiro on the other hand has a longer leash.

 

Outside looking in, this org seems to have a bunch of yes men and not enough people who challenge the methods/procedures from top down. Don't think Mattingly will be the savior but at least that's a voice who I feel is different than what they've had during their entire tenure here.

[max silver]

I disagree with this.

 

They inherited an old team that had hung onto competing far too long. The first 3-4 years was spent rebuilding/retooling. The team developed their core tandem of Vlad/Bo and have surrounded them with a lot of young and/or cheap talent:

 

Manoah

Kirk

Teo (whom they got for free)

Jansen

Moreno

Romano

Espinal (whom they got for free)

 

That's 5 All Stars, the #1 prospect in baseball and Danny f***ing Jansen (aka 141 wRC+ Danny Jansen) that they have developed and surrounded the 'big 2' with since their debut in 2019. Obviously Moreno is part of the next wave, as is Zulo, Teids, Barriera, Gabby, Juenger, Macko, Barger, Doughty, etc.

 

There are teams that have 'done it better' than the Jays since 2019 (LA, Cards), but I don't think there are many...

 

I agree with most of this, but I don't think that the current regime inherited a team that was completely past it's prime. The current group took over after the 2015 season, and that team was one of baseball's best at that point. They took a kick at the can in 2016 without taking on any onerous long term commitments, but as early as 2017 the writing was on the wall and the time was likely right to start dismantling the team at that point.

 

The current group has done a good job overall in developing young talent but there are some notable exceptions to this. They've done a very poor job developing home grown pitching and outfielders. Thankfully there appears to be a lot of high ceiling pitching talent in the organization both in the rotation and the bullpen, but there is still a distinct lack of impact outfield talent in the organization outside of a few players in the low minors.

[Jimcanuck]

I agree with most of this, but I don't think that the current regime inherited a team that was completely past it's prime. The current group took over after the 2015 season, and that team was one of baseball's best at that point. They took a kick at the can in 2016 without taking on any onerous long term commitments, but as early as 2017 the writing was on the wall and the time was likely right to start dismantling the team at that point.

 

The current group has done a good job overall in developing young talent but there are some notable exceptions to this. They've done a very poor job developing home grown pitching and outfielders. Thankfully there appears to be a lot of high ceiling pitching talent in the organization both in the rotation and the bullpen, but there is still a distinct lack of impact outfield talent in the organization outside of a few players in the low minors.

 

I have few issues with what the Jays front office has done. They haven't been perfect, but compared to other teams in the same situation in 2016, they've done an excellent job.

 

Now we have guys on here chomping at the bit to go all in, but that's not going to happen. These guys are about sustained winning.

[Laika]

I agree with most of this, but I don't think that the current regime inherited a team that was completely past it's prime. The current group took over after the 2015 season, and that team was one of baseball's best at that point. They took a kick at the can in 2016 without taking on any onerous long term commitments, but as early as 2017 the writing was on the wall and the time was likely right to start dismantling the team at that point.

 

The current group has done a good job overall in developing young talent but there are some notable exceptions to this. They've done a very poor job developing home grown pitching and outfielders. Thankfully there appears to be a lot of high ceiling pitching talent in the organization both in the rotation and the bullpen, but there is still a distinct lack of impact outfield talent in the organization outside of a few players in the low minors.

 

I don’t know if they’ve don’t a bad job at developing outfielders as much as just not prioritizing drafting them at all.

 

Like the philosophy is to draft middle infielders

 

We’ll probably start seeing the infield prospects spill into the outfield soon. Maybe with Barger. Maybe others

[Eat My Shatkins]

Jays FO isn't perfect but I don't understand what some peoples f***en problem is.

 

They pretty quickly built this team back up into a perennial 90+ win team and they did it the toughest division in baseball.

 

Went from 2016 being in the playoffs, to giving it one more go in 2017 and failing. Tearing it down and by 2020 they were back in the wild card game and now have won 91 and 92 games the last two seasons.

 

Tough crowd if you're unhappy with those results.