Jays 2021/22 General Off-Season Discussion

[Stangstag]

OK. I know sliced finger Lourdes only got 4 or 5 games DH and one knee Springer maybe 20.

 

How did it get so bad? Rowdy messed up. Panic probably DH'd some games, and Grichuk, lol

 

Get a guy who can hit. DH position shouldn't hit .220 with a .300 on base percentage.

 

Not many teams have an exclusive DH these days, but im in the sign Schwarber boat. I actually think it would be great if we could keep Dickerson, try Gurriel at 3B, and sign Schwarber. Along with Biggio that would give us 3 solid LH bats in the lineup. Rotate the DH/LF/1B spot between Vlad, Schwarber, Dickerson.

 

If we don't think Gurriel can handle 3rd, then maybe try to sign Seager instead of Dickerson.

[Stangstag]

Lineup would look like:

 

Springer-R

Bichette-R

Guerrero-R

Schwarber-L

Hernandez-R

Gurriel-R

Seager/Dickerson-L

Kirk/Jansen-R

Biggio-L

[Dick_Pole]

Scherzer coming here is not the most unlikely idea in the world. He's gotta be thinking HOF by now and the best course of action to solidify that is the padding of stats and playoff appearances. Right now he's in Kevin Brown territory. So a three year deal where he adds 50-60 to his win total and 2-3 playoff appearances is possible with this team and its offense. Of course, it's also equally possible where he is right now. The one thing the Jays do have up on the Dodgers is an AL East position where he would get maximum exposure. So do the Yankees and Red Sox but I don't think either are up for adding Scherzer-like payroll without shedding it elsewhere.

[z3r0s]

Yeah I kind of like Kirk @ DH (maybe he catches 20% of the time), Jansen and Moreno start in a time-share with the hope that Moreno takes the starting job and Jansen becomes a backup. That's if there are no trades.

 

Having a part time catcher that can DH is a pretty nice luxury. I honestly think you don't need to carry a backup catcher in this situation. It's not like your catcher gets hurt in most games, and the worst thing that happens if your catcher goes down while your backup is DHing is that you lose the DH for part of a game.

 

I could see the utility of having another solid hitting bench option outstripping what you would lose by having the pitcher hit once or twice in a game once or twice a year.

[Stangstag]

Scherzer coming here is not the most unlikely idea in the world. He's gotta be thinking HOF by now and the best course of action to solidify that is the padding of stats and playoff appearances. Right now he's in Kevin Brown territory. So a three year deal where he adds 50-60 to his win total and 2-3 playoff appearances is possible with this team and its offense. Of course, it's also equally possible where he is right now. The one thing the Jays do have up on the Dodgers is an AL East position where he would get maximum exposure. So do the Yankees and Red Sox but I don't think either are up for adding Scherzer-like payroll without shedding it elsewhere.

 

I don't think there's any chance Scherzer comes here unless we massively overpay. He already had us on his no-trade list, he basically chose to go to the Dodgers. He probably stays with the Dodgers or maybe goes to the Angels

[Mikeleelop]

Not many teams have an exclusive DH these days, but im in the sign Schwarber boat. I actually think it would be great if we could keep Dickerson, try Gurriel at 3B, and sign Schwarber. Along with Biggio that would give us 3 solid LH bats in the lineup. Rotate the DH/LF/1B spot between Vlad, Schwarber, Dickerson.

 

If we don't think Gurriel can handle 3rd, then maybe try to sign Seager instead of Dickerson.

 

Biggio is not solid, plus his defence is below average

 

he's a bench guy who can Pinch hit and hopefully work a walk

[Laika]

Having a part time catcher that can DH is a pretty nice luxury. I honestly think you don't need to carry a backup catcher in this situation. It's not like your catcher gets hurt in most games, and the worst thing that happens if your catcher goes down while your backup is DHing is that you lose the DH for part of a game.

 

I could see the utility of having another solid hitting bench option outstripping what you would lose by having the pitcher hit once or twice in a game once or twice a year.

 

Moreno playing 3rd base is another possibility. This is the JimCanuk wet dream solution.

[John_Havok]

I don't think there's any chance Scherzer comes here unless we massively overpay. He already had us on his no-trade list, he basically chose to go to the Dodgers. He probably stays with the Dodgers or maybe goes to the Angels

 

According the Jason Stark of the Athletic, the Jays were on his list of approved trade teams. If his info is correct, he would have approved trades to:

 

Los Angeles Dodgers

San Diego Padres

Boston Red Sox

Tampa Bay Rays

Toronto Blue Jays

Houston Astros

New York Mets

 

Interestingly, the Yankees were left off.

[Olerud363]

Not many teams have an exclusive DH these days, but im in the sign Schwarber boat. I actually think it would be great if we could keep Dickerson, try Gurriel at 3B, and sign Schwarber. Along with Biggio that would give us 3 solid LH bats in the lineup. Rotate the DH/LF/1B spot between Vlad, Schwarber, Dickerson.

 

If we don't think Gurriel can handle 3rd, then maybe try to sign Seager instead of Dickerson.

 

Vlad at 3rd could still be an option. I wish they'd played him and worked him out there occasionally just to keep the option open.

 

Vlad is a negative d guy, but the way these numbers work out is his value isn't that much different at 1st or 3rd. Put Vlad at third and get Olson or Freddie Freeman, lol. I mean it's not going to happen but that would get the team up to 105 projected wins, and 95 real wins factoring in umps/luck/********.

[Olerud363]

Moreno playing 3rd base is another possibility. This is the JimCanuk wet dream solution.

 

f*** off minor league 2020 cancelation and Moreno injury situation

 

If Moreno played 100 games in 2020 and 110 games in 2021 we all might be a lot calmer. I'm not saying he's the next Bo Bichette, but if he is, we can't be confident in it with 30 games last two years.

 

Plus Moreno might of been up instead of Smith/Lopez/Lamb and won a game against Detroit or something, and even if it was just 1 game he won we'd be playing tonight.

[Olerud363]

Biggio is not solid, plus his defence is below average

 

he's a bench guy who can Pinch hit and hopefully work a walk

 

Everybody hates Biggio. Just make him 10th guy next year. He'll probably get 500 plate appearances anyway and can push himself into a larger role if healthy.

[max silver]

Moreno playing 3rd base is another possibility. This is the JimCanuk wet dream solution.

 

I certainly don't expect Jansen to rock a 151 WRC+ over the course of a full season, but that is what he was able to produce over his final 54 games/156 plate appearances in 2021. That's certainly starting catcher material and at the very least should have earned him the spot to start 2022. The reports of Moreno being a premium athlete with a strong arm make third base sound like a very realistic option.

[John_Havok]

I certainly don't expect Jansen to rock a 151 WRC+ over the course of a full season, but that is what he was able to produce over his final 54 games/156 plate appearances in 2021. That's certainly starting catcher material and at the very least should have earned him the spot to start 2022. The reports of Moreno being a premium athlete with a strong arm make third base sound like a very realistic option.

 

There's only 6 catchers in baseball that had a WRC+ over 110 this year setting a min PA of 150. The bar for offense as a catcher is not exactly high. In fact, Kirk and Jansen would be in a group of 12 catchers that feel between 100 and 111 wRC+

 

As they are, Kirk and Jansen are already suitable starting catchers as far as their bats go, its more of a question of how much more higher is realistic. I don't think either of them are going to be challenging the 130+ range, but 115-120 isn't out of the question.

[Cbert]

I’d love to have both Ray and Semien back if they take about 25 each. A little worried that it could handcuff the Jays a couple years from now when Vlad and Bo gotta get paid though. One thing I’ve wondered, could Semien come back and convert to 3rd? He likely says no, but if we give him the one big contract he’s looking for as a shortstop maybe he’s open to moving over. Then you can keep biggio at second where he is way more confident and can focus on his hitting, too.

[max silver]

I’d love to have both Ray and Semien back if they take about 25 each. A little worried that it could handcuff the Jays a couple years from now when Vlad and Bo gotta get paid though. One thing I’ve wondered, could Semien come back and convert to 3rd? He likely says no, but if we give him the one big contract he’s looking for as a shortstop maybe he’s open to moving over. Then you can keep biggio at second where he is way more confident and can focus on his hitting, too.

 

Semien was given his choice of second base or third base and ended up choosing second base. Given that he provides Gold glove quality defence there I just don't see how it would make sense for him to switch positions again.

[max silver]

There's only 6 catchers in baseball that had a WRC+ over 110 this year setting a min PA of 150. The bar for offense as a catcher is not exactly high. In fact, Kirk and Jansen would be in a group of 12 catchers that feel between 100 and 111 wRC+

 

As they are, Kirk and Jansen are already suitable starting catchers as far as their bats go, its more of a question of how much more higher is realistic. I don't think either of them are going to be challenging the 130+ range, but 115-120 isn't out of the question.

 

It will be interesting to see how things end up shaking out. The Jays have 4 major league quality catchers on the roster, with 3 of those looking to be starter quality. McGuire should be the first one moved as his upside is the lowest of the 4, and hopefully he has built a bit of trade value as he could likely start on a lot of teams and looks to be a fine backup even on good clubs. I'd like to see Jansen as the starter with Kirk as the backup/DH going into next season, but Charlie seemed to be hesitant to use Kirk at DH when there were only two catchers on the major league roster.

[Stangstag]

I’d love to have both Ray and Semien back if they take about 25 each. A little worried that it could handcuff the Jays a couple years from now when Vlad and Bo gotta get paid though. One thing I’ve wondered, could Semien come back and convert to 3rd? He likely says no, but if we give him the one big contract he’s looking for as a shortstop maybe he’s open to moving over. Then you can keep biggio at second where he is way more confident and can focus on his hitting, too.

 

Do we really want to tie up 75 million a year for the next 5 years on 3 guys over the age of 30? (Springer, Ray, Semien)

 

And that’s not including Ryu and his 20 million for the next 2 seasons.

 

95 million on Ray, Ryu, Semien, Springer.

 

Idk about that.

[Jimcanuck]

Moreno playing 3rd base is another possibility. This is the JimCanuk wet dream solution.

 

You just made me cum.

[BigCecil]

You just made me cum.

Things you just can’t unread.

[Jimcanuck]

Need to see the final Jays at Arizona Fall League. Makes all the sense in the world for Moreno to be there, given the time he missed. Teams often test players out at a different position at the AFL.

[glory]

According the Jason Stark of the Athletic, the Jays were on his list of approved trade teams. If his info is correct, he would have approved trades to:

 

Los Angeles Dodgers

San Diego Padres

Boston Red Sox

Tampa Bay Rays

Toronto Blue Jays

Houston Astros

New York Mets

 

Interestingly, the Yankees were left off.

 

If I'm Shatkins, I'm throwing a shitload of money at Scherzer over three years. Make him take less to stay in Cali or somewhere else. He fits the rotation perfectly, and the visual of seeing Charlie Montoyo having to take his crazy ass out of a game is worth a few more million tacked on.

[G-Snarls]

Vlad at 3rd could still be an option. I wish they'd played him and worked him out there occasionally just to keep the option open.

 

Vlad is a negative d guy, but the way these numbers work out is his value isn't that much different at 1st or 3rd. Put Vlad at third and get Olson or Freddie Freeman, lol. I mean it's not going to happen but that would get the team up to 105 projected wins, and 95 real wins factoring in umps/luck/********.

 

Disagree

 

Vlad plays a perfectly decent 1B. No way I experiment with him any more than that. We need a 3B.

[G-Snarls]

Everybody hates Biggio. Just make him 10th guy next year. He'll probably get 500 plate appearances anyway and can push himself into a larger role if healthy.

 

Fine with him as utility IF to back up 3B/2B/1B (and even a little OF in an emergency) plus he's a LHB off the bench for PH situations

 

Nothing wrong with that

 

He will either get better and grow into an everyday player or eventually get traded or non-tendered in his later arb years if he doesn't.

Edited October 4, 2021 by G-Snarls

[Jimcanuck]

Biggio has a 4 WAR ceiling. 2019 he had 2.4 WAR in 100 games.

 

I'm writing off 2021 as a down year due primarily to injuries. He was on fire in June (155 wRC+) just before he got injured and tried to play through it.

 

One could do a lot worse than Biggio at 9 hole.

[Krylian]

Everybody hates Biggio. Just make him 10th guy next year. He'll probably get 500 plate appearances anyway and can push himself into a larger role if healthy.

 

I was fine with Biggio over the past couple of seasons, however, this team is at the point now where it needs something more bankable and predictable. No clue what you're going to get from Biggio. I'm not comfortable with a potential black hole in our lineup, knowing he's not going to give you much defensively either. If he's able to find some consistency and have longer stretches of play like we've seen he's capable of, bonus. Utility guy with star potential is where he's at right now

[John_Havok]

Disagree

 

Vlad plays a perfectly decent 1B. No way I experiment with him any more than that. We need a 3B.

 

Here's the FA list for SS and 3b in this offseason. I include the SS because you never know who might be willing to move to 3rd. Still, beyond the obvious top top tier guys, it's not a very good place to shop.

 

Shortstops

 

Javier Baez (29)

Carlos Correa (27)

Freddy Galvis (32)

Greg Garcia (32)

Leury Garcia (31)

Jose Iglesias (32)

Corey Seager (28)

Marcus Semien (31)

Andrelton Simmons (32)

Trevor Story (29)

Chris Taylor (31)

Jonathan Villar (31)

 

Third Basemen

 

Ehire Adrianza (32)

Nolan Arenado (31) — can opt out of remaining five years, $164MM (probably won't)

Kris Bryant (30)

Asdrubal Cabrera (36)

Matt Carpenter (36) — $18.5MM vesting option ($2MM buyout) - i dont know if it vested or not

Eduardo Escobar (33)

Maikel Franco (29)

Todd Frazier (36)

Marwin Gonzalez (33)

Josh Harrison (34)

Brock Holt (34)

Jake Lamb (31)

Brad Miller (32)

Jose Ramirez (29) — $11MM club option ($2MM buyout) - 0% chance this isn't picked up

Kyle Seager (34) — $15MM club option (buyout size dependent on stats in 2020-21)

Travis Shaw (32)

Eric Sogard (36)

Yoshitomo Tsutsugo (30)

[G-Snarls]

I was fine with Biggio over the past couple of seasons, however, this team is at the point now where it needs something more bankable and predictable. No clue what you're going to get from Biggio. I'm not comfortable with a potential black hole in our lineup, knowing he's not going to give you much defensively either. If he's able to find some consistency and have longer stretches of play like we've seen he's capable of, bonus. Utility guy with star potential is where he's at right now

 

Especially if said potential black hole is replacing top 3 MVP Semien

[Jimcanuck]

If the Jays want to max out the pitching investment, Josh Harrison would be a cheap and effective 1 year get while Moreno/Groshans continue to develop.

 

Harrison can play 3B, 2B, OF.

[John_Havok]

If I'm Shatkins, I'm throwing a shitload of money at Scherzer over three years. Make him take less to stay in Cali or somewhere else. He fits the rotation perfectly, and the visual of seeing Charlie Montoyo having to take his crazy ass out of a game is worth a few more million tacked on.

 

Yeah, cant remember if it was this thread or another, but...

 

3 years, 120 million wouldn't even be that crazy when you think of Gerrit Cole's AAV at 36 million. Sure he's a few years younger, but Scherzer still hasn't shown any signs of slowing down. I would think if I'm Scherzer's agent, my starting AAV is 37 million per season and then let the teams who are willing to pay that fight over how many years they want to guarantee, or how much higher in AAV they are willing to go. Best combo from the team he wants to sign with will win.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Is there a reason I can't think of why Scherzer and the Dodgers won't just stay married to each other?

 

Have to think Bauer is toast, and Kershaw is a free agent too.