Trade Deadline Rumors and Discussion Thread 2021

[Brownie19]

Man I wish the Jays could get Marquez. Frankly I don't understand why the Rockies aren't trading him. Their farm is garbage. They're no where close to competing. They are going to trade him in 2 years and get less in return. His starts over this year and next are just causing them to have a worse draft position. I'm not sure what it would take to get him if they actually made him available though.

 

Because they're a horrible organization?

[wilko]

Damn, Mariner players are big mad

 

 

Dipoto don't give a f***! lol

[Ehjays]

I mean, that's kind of the whole point of WAR. It lets you compare very different players.

 

If you are comparing a closer with 30 IP and a 2.88 FIP to a closer with 31 IP and a 2.85 FIP, you don't need WAR. They are obviously the same as far as production goes.

 

But what if you want to compare a 2.88 FIP reliever to a 4.73 FIP 4th starter?

Or a good closer to a shortstop who hits .230 with no power but a great glove?

WAR! That's what it's good for! Absolutely something.

 

LOL I caught that.

[AMS528]

I mean, that's kind of the whole point of WAR. It lets you compare very different players.

 

If you are comparing a closer with 30 IP and a 2.88 FIP to a closer with 31 IP and a 2.85 FIP, you don't need WAR. They are obviously the same as far as production goes.

 

But what if you want to compare a 2.88 FIP reliever to a 4.73 FIP 4th starter?

Or a good closer to a shortstop who hits .230 with no power but a great glove?

 

WAR! That's what it's good for! Absolutely something.

 

I mean a bit, but is it really providing any helpful information in this case. It certainly doesn't include leverage. A 1 WAR starter and a 1 WAR reliever are not puttinf those numbers up in the same innings right? Graveman also has great win probability added numbers naturally.

 

Graveman is having a better year than Liriano was when we dealt him even considering his ERA luck.

[Laika]

I mean a bit, but is it really providing any helpful information in this case. It certainly doesn't include leverage. A 1 WAR starter and a 1 WAR reliever are not puttinf those numbers up in the same innings right? Graveman also has great win probability added numbers naturally.

 

Graveman is having a better year than Liriano was when we dealt him even considering his ERA luck.

 

That's not objectively true. It's a philosophical question and it depends on how you value or think about things like true talent vs. production, ERA/RA9 vs. DIPS, projection vs. results, WPA vs. unleveraged linear weights, etc.

 

There is certainly an argument to be made that WAR underrates elite relievers because of WPA considerations BUT is Kendall Graveman an elite reliever? Projection systems still think he's barely a good reliever.

 

When you say something like "is having a better year" the rebuttal is plainly that he is probably just getting lucky in high leverage situations. So it's up for debate.

 

Anyway, I think Seattle was wise as hell to cash in and they got a massive value in return in Toro.

The point of my OP was not to compare 2021 Graveman and Liriano in context, but Houston obviously thought Liriano back then had big value. Or they just thought Teoscar was a lost cause. Maybe they think Toro is a lost cause now. Who knows.

[Jimcanuck]

Graveman missed almost a month, reducing his WAR accumlation. He would be around 1.1 WAR without the time lost. He was also a starter before this year, projections systems may not be accurate.

[Jimcanuck]

Damn, Mariner players are big mad

 

 

These players are professionals getting paid $$$. They should just shut the f*** up, IMO.

[Brownie19]

These players are professionals getting paid $$$. They should just shut the f*** up, IMO.

 

I think it's short sighted to expect this. These are players who have worked most their lives chasing the dream of winning the world series. These are the same players we want to play with passion and as a result, we should expect them to feel this way.

 

Personally - I don't want ball players to be passionless robots who look at baseball as a job.

[Jimcanuck]

I think it's short sighted to expect this. These are players who have worked most their lives chasing the dream of winning the world series. These are the same players we want to play with passion and as a result, we should expect them to feel this way.

 

Personally - I don't want ball players to be passionless robots who look at baseball as a job.

 

They can show passion without denigrating the employer that pays them $$$, and is trying to field a winning team.

 

Tampa Bay makes similar moves all the time, they arent doing too shabby.

[Ray]

[Ray]

[Stangstag]

 

Wow exciting move for the A’s

[Brownie19]

They can show passion without denigrating the employer that pays them $$$, and is trying to field a winning team.

 

Tampa Bay makes similar moves all the time, they arent doing too shabby.

 

You forget they play on a team that opened admitted they manipulated service time and held top prospects down to gain an extra year of control (while also calling Kyle Seager overpaid and complaining about the quality of the english from some players).

 

While I do think they wait to see what other moves the GM has up his sleeves - I can appreciate this team doesn't believe Toro gives them a better chance to win this year.

 

And let's be honest - what % of baseball teams are actually 'trying' to win? Trying to turn a profit? yes.

[Ray]

What the f***????

 

[TwistedLogic]

Kim Ng got Jesus Luzardo until 2027 for three months of Starling Marte.

[Slade]

That is a really good return for Marte rental.

[connorp]

What the f***????

 

 

Yeah man. Top 20 pedigree with few years of control left. If Ray gets that, gotta think about it

[RobinThicc]

Maybe the Jays should sell lol

[glory]

Unless Luzardo is damaged goods, that seems like a pretty big overpayment for a rental.

[Ray]

Goddamn. I mean, in a vacuum, I would’ve traded Marcus Semien back to the A’s while eating the remaining money on his contract for Jesus Luzardo.

 

I know Luzardo has had his ups and downs with injuries and performance, but what an absolute coup for 2 months of Starling Marte.

[glory]

The A's are trotting out Elvis Andrus' corpse at short. Probably could have gotten Luzardo for Semien (+ eating all his 2021 money).

[Jays24]

We might as well sell Ray and Semien if we aren't planning on re-signing them. Find out what their number is now long term and if it doesn't work then trade them to long term pieces. Only makes sense with the other teams getting stronger in the short term.

[Brownie19]

The A's are trotting out Elvis Andrus' corpse at short. Probably could have gotten Luzardo for Semien (+ eating all his 2021 money).

 

Maybe we ask about AJ Puk? (or Soderstrom, Nick Allen)

[Brownie19]

We might as well sell Ray and Semien if we aren't planning on re-signing them. Find out what their number is now long term and if it doesn't work then trade them to long term pieces. Only makes sense with the other teams getting stronger in the short term.

 

We can offer them qualifying offers and collect a 2nd rounder if they sign elsewhere - so the return still needs to be legit.

[Stangstag]

Kim Ng got Jesus Luzardo until 2027 for three months of Starling Marte.

 

Beauty

[wilko]

Jesus!

[Terminator]

Luzardo sucks. He can't even get outs in AAA. Billy Beane sold the Marlins a bag of fool's gold. He gets Marte for the rest of the season and doesn't have to pay him and then gets a pick after the year is over.

[TwistedLogic]

Luzardo sucks. He can't even get outs in AAA. Billy Beane sold the Marlins a bag of fool's gold. He gets Marte for the rest of the season and doesn't have to pay him and then gets a pick after the year is over.

 

He doesn't get a pick. You can't give qualifying offers to mid-season acquisitions.

[Stangstag]

Luzardo sucks. He can't even get outs in AAA. Billy Beane sold the Marlins a bag of fool's gold. He gets Marte for the rest of the season and doesn't have to pay him and then gets a pick after the year is over.

 

Can't QO a trade acquisition

[Terminator]

Wow I suck.