Offseason Roster Thread (2020-2021)

[Spanky99]

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/12/latest-on-dj-lemahieu-2.html

 

Latest On DJ LeMahieu

 

By Connor Byrne | December 21, 2020 at 9:56pm CDT

 

The Yankees haven’t made it any secret that their top offseason priority is to re-sign second baseman DJ LeMahieu. However, they’re facing serious competition from American League rival Toronto. The Blue Jays may be the top threat to the Yankees for LeMahieu, Jeff Passan of ESPN reports.

 

At last check, the Yankees and LeMahieu – a 2020 AL MVP contender and the league’s batting champion – were far apart in contract negotiations. The 32-year-old LeMahieu is reportedly seeking a five-year, $100MM contract, while the Yankees seem to be in the $75MM to $80MM range over four seasons. The two sides want to stay together, but unless they’re able to close the gap, it could open the door even more for the Blue Jays. MLBTR predicted at the outset of the offseason that the Jays would end up with LeMahieu, who would form an excellent double-play tandem with shortstop Bo Bichette. Cavan Biggio would presumably move from second to third on a Toronto team with LeMahieu, giving the club one of the league’s top infields.

 

Bichette would like to see LeMahieu move north, as he told teammate Ross Stripling (via Kristie Ackert of the New York Daily News): “I think DJ LeMahieu is the best hitter in baseball, and I don’t even really think it’s close, from what I’ve seen. He’s probably the No. 1 player I’d want to play with in the league. If that would happen, that would be awesome for us, but either way, man, our team’s pretty good already.”

 

Having gone 32-28 in 2020, the Blue Jays do look like a top contender in the AL. They finished a game behind the Yankees, though, and if they’re going to to overtake New York, it would help to steal one of its best players. The Jays are making a real effort to do just that.

[Jays24]

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/12/latest-on-dj-lemahieu-2.html

 

MLBTR predicted at the outset of the offseason that the Jays would end up with LeMahieu, who would form an excellent double-play tandem with shortstop Bo Bichette. Cavan Biggio would presumably move from second to third on a Toronto team with LeMahieu, giving the club one of the league’s top infields.

 

 

DJL would play 3rd with Biggio at 2nd if we got him no? I don't want to see Biggio at 3rd in anyway unless its for emergency purposes.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Jays24

[Spanky99]

DJL would play 3rd with Biggio at 2nd if we got him no? I don't want to see Biggio at 3rd in anyway unless its for emergency purposes.

 

I would think so, but they all can move around the diamond, who knows.

[Laika]

Why are all Fangraphs prospect writers snotty little f***s?

[wilko]

Why are all Fangraphs prospect writers snotty little f***s?

 

God complex.

[RobinThicc]

DJL would play 3rd with Biggio at 2nd if we got him no? I don't want to see Biggio at 3rd in anyway unless its for emergency purposes.

I mean DJL is a gold glove second baseman.

[Brownie19]

Why are all Fangraphs prospect writers snotty little f***s?

 

I mean sure, but he isn't wrong. Shun was horrendous last year.

[Laika]

I mean sure, but he isn't wrong. Shun was horrendous last year.

 

He is arguably wrong. Sugano's NPB numbers compare favourably to other Japanese pitchers who have come over and had great success (Tanaka, Maeda, and others).

 

Sugano is easily distinguished from Gooch, who basically had one random good year in Japan but was mostly a reliever and wasn't even consistently pitching on the main circuit over there.

 

Remember, the point he is responding to is not "Shun Yamaguchi is good" it is "Tomoyuki Sugano is very good". His rebuttal is "Shun Yamaguchi was bad therefore Sugano should not be expected to be good". It's an argument as weak as his fragile Fangraphs ego, and he is delivering it with the stuffy arrogance of a 15 year old.

 

The Blue Jays took a flyer on Gooch and paid almost nothing to do it. To compare Sugano to Gooch is so disingenuous and much worse than comparing Sugano to a #2 SP.

[Orgfiller]

I mean sure, but he isn't wrong. Shun was horrendous last year.

 

He absolutely is wrong when he's comparing Sugano to Yamaguchi. Sugano is significantly better.

[BTS]

Why are all Fangraphs prospect writers snotty little f***s?

 

This describes pretty much every writer they've employed in recent memory with the exception of Jeff Sullivan and Cistulli.

[L54]

The people Fangraphs employ are the sole reason I'll never give them a dime of my own money

[Jays24]

I mean DJL is a gold glove second baseman.

 

I haven't seen enough of DJL at 3rd to comment on whether he can be gold glove calibre there too. If not, id hope we get a SS and move Bo to 3B because Biggio there full time is a disaster imo. That would mean Biggio to the Corner OF or back to the Zobrist role.

[Orgfiller]

Ultimately, I think it's a stuff vs. command argument.

 

You guys are all right not to compare Gooch and Sugano. But I think Logenhagen puts questions on Sugano's pure stuff based on the competition. His report has him as a 45, fastball sits 93, slider is a 45 (I think?). Great command.

 

But Logenhagen is a stuff > command guy. And Sugano has to use a new baseball. He could pick it up in 2 weeks or he might lose a pitch like Yamaguchi did (curveball?).

 

There's no way Sugano's stuff is as bad as a 45 FV fastball paired with a 45 FV breaking ball and he's put up similar NPB numbers to Tanaka, unless he has like 70 command or you believe Tanaka also has similar stuff and just manages to make it work?

[Spanky99]

I haven't seen enough of DJL at 3rd to comment on whether he can be gold glove calibre there too. If not, id hope we get a SS and move Bo to 3B because Biggio there full time is a disaster imo. That would mean Biggio to the Corner OF or back to the Zobrist role.

 

lol... calm down, man.

[Spanky99]

I mean sure, but he isn't wrong. Shun was horrendous last year.

 

No he isn't, but using that sample size, is dumn.

 

Right and cherry picking, Shun against Sugamo is egregious.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Spanky99

[Laika]

Ultimately, I think it's a stuff vs. command argument.

 

You guys are all right not to compare Gooch and Sugano. But I think Logenhagen puts questions on Sugano's pure stuff based on the competition. His report has him as a 45, fastball sits 93, slider is a 45 (I think?). Great command.

 

But Logenhagen is a stuff > command guy. And Sugano has to use a new baseball. He could pick it up in 2 weeks or he might lose a pitch like Yamaguchi did (curveball?).

 

You cannot be a consistently great SP in NPB without stuff. Sometimes a pitcher with great command will have their stuff UNDERRATED. I think that's what's happening here.

[G-Snarls]

The people Fangraphs employ are the sole reason I'll never give them a dime of my own money

 

I go there for the stats

 

Not the "writing"

[Orgfiller]

It kind of does sound like he has 70 command lol. It's tough to compare him to Tanaka. Tanaka has two plus secondaries, the splitter and slider. But he has a comically bad fastball.

 

Sugano just simply has to have a better fastball than Tanaka.

 

But Tanaka's FIP has been well over 4.00 for the last four years so how good is Tanaka?

 

A pitcher who projects for 3 WAR lol? I don't think anyone is banking on 5 WAR from Sugano here, if he's exactly as good as Tanaka and with diminished injury risk that's a pretty valuable guy.

 

Tanaka's ERA-, FIP- and xFIP- are all around 10% better than league average. Sounds pretty good to me. A 4+ FIP in the juiced ball era AL East isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

[King]

 

This is why Vlad sucks

 

f*** you Dante

[Orgfiller]

Not comfortable with that at #3 with Ray and Roark behind. I probably see him as a 45 and you 50? We're not that far part, really. But I think the circumstances are favourable enough that we could probably do better than that.

 

But again, why stop at him? I see him around as valuable as the non Bauer pitchers in FA and could come cheaper given the foreign posting process. Let's say we sign Paxton or literally Tanaka instead, are you comfortable with one of them at #3 with Ray and Roark still following? No one wants to watch Tanner Roark pitch significant innings, the hope is we can add one or two decent SPs, and IMO Sugano is one of those that could be added at a reasonable price to bolster our weak rotation.

[Deadpool]

Both those guys are a little scary. Ideally I'd add 3 SPs though. One through trade probably since our budget isn't unlimited. A cost-controlled type.

 

Ryu

Cost-control guy

Paxton/Tanaka

Sugano

Ray

 

Ryu is not exactly a horse, either.

 

Who is your cost-control #2 if it's not Sugano, Tanaka or Paxton?

 

Also, I have a hard time believing Pearson isn't in the rotation for the majority of the year (though, he may be on an innings limit, I'm not sure...)

[G-Snarls]

Both those guys are a little scary. Ideally I'd add 3 SPs though. One through trade probably since our budget isn't unlimited. A cost-controlled type.

 

Ryu

Cost-control guy

Paxton/Tanaka

Sugano

Ray

 

Ryu is not exactly a horse, either.

 

I can't see them obtaining THREE starting pitchers

[Jimcanuck]

Who is your cost-control #2 if it's not Sugano, Tanaka or Paxton?

 

Also, I have a hard time believing Pearson isn't in the rotation for the majority of the year (though, he may be on an innings limit, I'm not sure...)

 

Opener for Pearson, bring him in against the bottom part of the lineup. He seemed to struggle the most last year, early in games.

[max silver]

Opener for Pearson, bring him in against the bottom part of the lineup. He seemed to struggle the most last year, early in games.

 

Pearson wasn't healthy early in the year when he was struggling early in games. I'd give him a chance to perform while not dealing with an elbow injury before doing something drastic like converting him to a bulk pitcher.

[Jimcanuck]

Pearson wasn't healthy early in the year when he was struggling early in games. I'd give him a chance to perform while not dealing with an elbow injury before doing something drastic like converting him to a bulk pitcher.

 

Not drastic. A way of limiting his innings and giving him a higher chance of success, gaining confidence. And it's temporary.

 

Glasnow was a bulk pitcher.

[max silver]

Not drastic. A way of limiting his innings and giving him a higher chance of success, gaining confidence. And it's temporary.

 

Glasnow was a bulk pitcher.

 

Would demoting the teams best pitching prospect in many years to bulk pitcher be the best thing for his confidence though? I'm not so sure I see things from that perspective. A guy like Trent Thornton should absolutely be used in this type of manner, but Pearson is on a completely different plane talent wise.

[Jimcanuck]

Would demoting the teams best pitching prospect in many years to bulk pitcher be the best thing for his confidence though? I'm not so sure I see things from that perspective. A guy like Trent Thornton should absolutely be used in this type of manner, but Pearson is on a completely different plane talent wise.

 

No impact on his confidence. You tell him (1) temporary, (2) designed to limit his innings given his limited usage in 2020.

[AdamGreenwood]

We're not getting DJL. The Jays refusal to denounce rumors means that agents always add the Jays as a potential buyer to drive up the prices from other teams. They don't need any infielders. They can use a big-bat outfielder (Spring), SP and RP. Infield is pretty much their biggest area of strength.

 

Does DJL make us better? Sure.

But assuming we have a fixed amount of $ to spend, I'm confident we could add more wins spending it on pitching.

[Brownie19]

He absolutely is wrong when he's comparing Sugano to Yamaguchi. Sugano is significantly better.

 

My bad - I mean he's not wrong that Shun got his ass handed to him last year and that his stuff sucks. Nothing more. I agree it's a bad comparison to Sugano.

[Brownie19]

 

This is why Vlad sucks

 

f*** you Dante

 

I'm confused - you disagree with this demonstration?