Offseason Roster Thread 2019-2020

[z3r0s]

I just looked at Keuchel's FG depth chart projection. He should get more than Cole.

 

lol, now that's a f***in' innings eater

[Bobthe4th]

I didn't make any predictions about our record, but we need to show our young players that we are serious about getting better if we want them to be motivated to play well and stay with the Blue Jays. Continuing to wallow in a losing culture will only harm their development..

 

You said we need to sign someone like Wheeler to be a winning team i.e. over .500. Not signing the biggest free agents this offseason does not equal a losing culture, and if you think we have to, to motivate the young core, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Wheeler is one of many players we could target. Make the best offer possible and see what happens. There's no reason to believe that he doesn't consider the Blue Jays an attractive destination.

 

"No reason" lol.

[Grant77]

You said we need to sign someone like Wheeler to be a winning team i.e. over .500. Not signing the biggest free agents this offseason does not equal a losing culture, and if you think we have to, to motivate the young core, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

 

 

"No reason" lol.

 

Consistently trotting out guys who aren't major league calibre pitchers with ERA's north of five is going to be hard on any player.

 

Players like Bichette are motivated by winning and will not want to remain here if we don't invest in being a winner. The clock is ticking on their service time and it's essential that we get the ball rolling towards being successful. That must begin now.

[Jimcanuck]

Players like Bichette are motivated by winning and will not want to remain here if we don't invest in being a winner. The clock is ticking on their service time and it's essential that we get the ball rolling towards being successful. That must begin now.

 

Seems almost everyone here, myself included, agrees with the bolded. There are a couple of approaches the FO can take. The approach is going to depend in part on the cost signing free agents, the risk, and the premium if any needed to get a FA to come to Toronto.

 

Whatever happens, I trust that Shatkins has done their due diligence.

[Bobthe4th]

Consistently trotting out guys who aren't major league calibre pitchers with ERA's north of five is going to be hard on any player.

 

Players like Bichette are motivated by winning and will not want to remain here if we don't invest in being a winner. The clock is ticking on their service time and it's essential that we get the ball rolling towards being successful. That must begin now.

 

Absolutely people like Bichette won't want to remain here if we are still a losing team in 6 years time when he's a free agent. Signing someone like Wheeler or not in 2019 has negligible impact on that 2025 decision though.

 

I think most, except for some of the most optimistic (some would say deluded) people, accept that it's very unlikely we make the playoffs this year. But only the most pessimistic people aren't excited about the young core. If in a year or two if we still haven't built on the core then I'd be agreeing with you, but right now I disagree that we have to make particularly risky moves (like a very expensive free agent signing) this offseason.

[BTS]

Non-tender deadline is today at 8PM ET. Hopefully it's the end of Drury, Law, and Maile.

[Laika]

Non-tender deadline is today at 8PM ET. Hopefully it's the end of Drury, Law, and Maile.

 

If all three of them stick around I will never post here again

[glory]

Atkins has a man crush on Drury, and Maile has 1 option remaining according to FG so he could realistically stay in AAA in case of injury. Law is 50/50.

 

To me, all 3 of them should be non tendered, but wouldn't shock me if all 3 are tendered.

[Pendleton]

Oh man, I think Drury has a shot. Delete your post!

 

Edit: Oh you mean all 3? Nah you're good.

 

Wait, how many years of control does Law have..........

 

This is first year of Arb I believe

[Pendleton]

[Maico450]

Atkins has a man crush on Drury, and Maile has 1 option remaining according to FG so he could realistically stay in AAA in case of injury. Law is 50/50.

 

To me, all 3 of them should be non tendered, but wouldn't shock me if all 3 are tendered.

 

I would be OK with Maile starting the season as backup catcher. McGuire in AAA to start the season. When someone gets hurt, its nice to have 3 catchers. I know McGuire had a huge September, but it was a limited number of AB. 97.

[Grant77]

Absolutely people like Bichette won't want to remain here if we are still a losing team in 6 years time when he's a free agent. Signing someone like Wheeler or not in 2019 has negligible impact on that 2025 decision though.

 

I think most, except for some of the most optimistic (some would say deluded) people, accept that it's very unlikely we make the playoffs this year. But only the most pessimistic people aren't excited about the young core. If in a year or two if we still haven't built on the core then I'd be agreeing with you, but right now I disagree that we have to make particularly risky moves (like a very expensive free agent signing) this offseason.

 

Every post you bring up the playoffs 2020 angle to make your points seem less foolish. Nobody expects a playoff berth, but progress has to be made towards that goal.

 

Getting a solid rotation and having even a .500 season would do a whole lot of good for this team. We'd see more progression as a whole from our young players. In turn, they would also be more amenable to extensions. It would also make Toronto a more attractive place for free agents in coming seasons. Every prime FA want to sign with a team on the cusp of the playoffs with a bunch of prime young talent.

[Spanky99]

Every post you bring up the playoffs 2020 angle to make your points seem less foolish. Nobody expects a playoff berth, but progress has to be made towards that goal.

 

Getting a solid rotation and having even a .500 season would do a whole lot of good for this team. We'd see more progression as a whole from our young players. In turn, they would also be more amenable to extensions. It would also make Toronto a more attractive place for free agents in coming seasons. Every prime FA want to sign with a team on the cusp of the playoffs with a bunch of prime young talent.

 

Not to mention upcoming FA is slim pickings, nothing wrong with building as we move along. This FA class is the best/deepest I've seen in quite some time.

[Dick_Pole]

 

I had to double check BR to confirm it's not the Justin Miller I'm thinking of

[bendera3]

I had to double check BR to confirm it's not the Justin Miller I'm thinking of

 

He's dead, unfortunately

[Dick_Pole]

Yes, I was thinking I was extremely misremembering something.

[Dick_Pole]

I would be OK with Maile starting the season as backup catcher. McGuire in AAA to start the season. When someone gets hurt, its nice to have 3 catchers. I know McGuire had a huge September, but it was a limited number of AB. 97.

 

Maile getting tendered could be a hint that there is a trade deal in the works for one of the young catchers imo.

[TheHurl]

I had to double check BR to confirm it's not the Justin Miller I'm thinking of

 

It's actually Billy Koch doing a Weekend at Bernies with Miller's corpse.

[Spanky99]

It's actually Billy Koch doing a Weekend at Bernies with Miller's corpse.

 

lol... you're awful.

[Bobthe4th]

Every post you bring up the playoffs 2020 angle to make your points seem less foolish. Nobody expects a playoff berth, but progress has to be made towards that goal.

 

Getting a solid rotation and having even a .500 season would do a whole lot of good for this team. We'd see more progression as a whole from our young players. In turn, they would also be more amenable to extensions. It would also make Toronto a more attractive place for free agents in coming seasons. Every prime FA want to sign with a team on the cusp of the playoffs with a bunch of prime young talent.

 

We’re just disagreeing on what is required to get to a solid rotation and a .500 season, and the amount of money we should be spending.

 

As I previously said someone like Pineda would be a good and realistic signing. Overpaying a Wheeler type, decreases the chance of getting value from the contract, increases the risk of limiting our payroll flexibility in a few years when the core is no longer cheap, and isn’t worth the extra risk when the difference between the signings is not going to make a big difference to our record this year.

 

For some reason you seem to be suggesting that if we don’t sign someone like Wheeler this offseason, we can’t acquire someone similar later on, which is bizarre. Although I think our front office is too conservative, thank f*** they’re not as impatient as you!

[glory]

If free agent prices continue at this pace, I find it hard to see Shatkins overpaying for someone in the upper/middle tier of free agents.

[bendera3]

We’re just disagreeing on what is required to get to a solid rotation and a .500 season, and the amount of money we should be spending.

 

As I previously said someone like Pineda would be a good and realistic signing. Overpaying a Wheeler type, decreases the chance of getting value from the contract, increases the risk of limiting our payroll flexibility in a few years when the core is no longer cheap, and isn’t worth the extra risk when the difference between the signings is not going to make a big difference to our record this year.

 

For some reason you seem to be suggesting that if we don’t sign someone like Wheeler this offseason, we can’t acquire someone similar later on, which is bizarre. Although I think our front office is too conservative, thank f*** they’re not as impatient as you!

 

I don't think we necessarily need to get extra value out of a contract for it to be a win. I'd rather sign someone like Wheeler than acquiring someone similar via trade where we have to trade prospect capital.

[Brownie19]

If free agent prices continue at this pace, I find it hard to see Shatkins overpaying for someone in the upper/middle tier of free agents.

 

It certainly looks like the last couple of years were a blip in the radar. Unfortunately for the Jays - they weren't quite ready to take advantage.

[Bobthe4th]

I don't think we necessarily need to get extra value out of a contract for it to be a win. I'd rather sign someone like Wheeler than acquiring someone similar via trade where we have to trade prospect capital.

 

The first sentence is true, but the second is dependent on context. For example signing Wheeler now, when at least the first year is wasted and we’d have to give him an insane offer to even consider coming here, wouldn’t be better than say trading a package around a catcher (one of the prospects or McGuire) next year for a starter with control. It’s all about the potential impact on the roster management.

[glory]

It certainly looks like the last couple of years were a blip in the radar. Unfortunately for the Jays - they weren't quite ready to take advantage.

 

Yeah the time to take advantage of cheap free agent prices might be over, at least this winter. I didn’t expect Shatkins to go crazy anyway but certainly less likely now. We will see.

[Grant77]

We’re just disagreeing on what is required to get to a solid rotation and a .500 season, and the amount of money we should be spending.

 

As I previously said someone like Pineda would be a good and realistic signing. Overpaying a Wheeler type, decreases the chance of getting value from the contract, increases the risk of limiting our payroll flexibility in a few years when the core is no longer cheap, and isn’t worth the extra risk when the difference between the signings is not going to make a big difference to our record this year.

 

For some reason you seem to be suggesting that if we don’t sign someone like Wheeler this offseason, we can’t acquire someone similar later on, which is bizarre. Although I think our front office is too conservative, thank f*** they’re not as impatient as you!

 

I'm not advocating for an overpayment so you can quit bringing that up in every post. If you're struggling for content then try actually responding to my points.

 

It can't be overstated how bad our starting rotation is right now. The need to address the situation does not stem from impatience. It's simply the reality of the situation. We have, at best, two competent starters (Anderson+Thornton) and a huge need for 3 more. Pineda can fill one of those spots but you also need to add a better pitcher or two. That can be done via trade, but given our payroll situation, the better option is almost certainly free agency.

 

If the prices are too high then so be it, but if you can get a Keuchel for 3/39 (like MLBTR suggests) then I think that does a lot of good for the development of our young players. Even at 5/100 for Wheeler, I don't think that really precludes the team from resigning their stars. None of them will have even reached free agency at that point.

[King]

Is there a reason we think that one of the worst qualified pitchers in baseball, given health, was a lock to be tendered a contract by the undisputed best team in baseball

 

Oh wait, these are the same stunned f***ing dummies that were clamouring for us to sign him to an 80 million dollar extension as recently as April. Good Stuff!

[TheHurl]

Aaron Sanchez the man responsible for BMJB's greatest discussions. We owe him that

[Spanky99]

Is there a reason we think that one of the worst qualified pitchers in baseball, given health, was a lock to be tendered a contract by the undisputed best team in baseball

 

Oh wait, these are the same stunned f***ing dummies that were clamouring for us to sign him to an 80 million dollar extension as recently as April. Good Stuff!

 

Hi King. s*** changes, lad. I changed my tune.

[Spanky99]

The first sentence is true, but the second is dependent on context. For example signing Wheeler now, when at least the first year is wasted and we’d have to give him an insane offer to even consider coming here, wouldn’t be better than say trading a package around a catcher (one of the prospects or McGuire) next year for a starter with control. It’s all about the potential impact on the roster management.

 

This is undeniably not true. Wow!