I don't wanna see John Gibbons next year

[L54]

How did the 2008 jays team, who could barely muster up 1 run a game, all of sudden start hitting with a new manager and coaches? They had the same players throughout the year

 

So who would be your top 5 to replace Gibbons next year?

[CHRIS]

I don't think Shapiro will take the PR hit for a minor upgrade a good mananger would bring over Gibby. If they missed the playoffs or maybe even lost the WC game then they could, but you can't fire a manager right after the team makes it into the ALCS.

 

Sure you can, as long as you place a higher priority on improving your team than the optics of getting rid of a likeable manager. I don't get the impression that Shapiro GAF about PR hits.

[WONDERBAT]

I don't think Shapiro will take the PR hit for a minor upgrade a good mananger would bring over Gibby. If they missed the playoffs or maybe even lost the WC game then they could, but you can't fire a manager right after the team makes it into the ALCS.

 

They could fire Gibbons if they want and not take any hit, the casual fans don't like the way Gibby carries himself and Shipiro always has the "he's not my guy" card to play. It certainly wouldn't be an issue to anyone. Is it deserved though?

[dineke]

Sure you can, as long as you place a higher priority on improving your team than the optics of getting rid of a likeable manager. I don't get the impression that Shapiro GAF about PR hits.

 

I guess. Not likely though.

[RealAccountant]

Shapiro will def see next year as a rebuilding or retooling year. Why fire Gibby in a year like that. We could be good next year or we might not be

If we aren't he can perfectly set up things in the future

 

We just had two long playoff runs. Market can sustain an off year. Now if we struggle a lot and things go downhill fast Gibby will be thrown overboard

[CHRIS]

Is it deserved though?

 

That's a tougher question to answer, I think.

 

I don't know if I would approach it as "deserving" to be fired, but rather as "can we do better?".

 

Without knowing the clubhouse and how he interacts with the team, I don't have a clue. From a visible, tactical perspective...Gibbons is better than some current managers, but worse than others.

[Terminator]

I don't think Shapiro will take the PR hit for a minor upgrade a good mananger would bring over Gibby. If they missed the playoffs or maybe even lost the WC game then they could, but you can't fire a manager right after the team makes it into the ALCS.

 

Yeah Gibbons will be back. FO's won't fire the manager because he's a buffer should the team start to suck and the fans call for heads to roll. I just hope they talk to him about allowing his starters to see the lineup for a 3rd time.

[burlingtonbandit]

I don't think Shapiro will take the PR hit for a minor upgrade a good mananger would bring over Gibby. If they missed the playoffs or maybe even lost the WC game then they could, but you can't fire a manager right after the team makes it into the ALCS.

 

Everything we've seen about Shapiro has suggested he will do anything if he thinks it makes the franchise better. He fired the scouting coordintor and the Pres. of Business Operations after success in the past. If you operate your franchise based on PR you shouldn't be running a franchise.

[ElNik2013]

Everything we've seen about Shapiro has suggested he will do anything if he thinks it makes the franchise better. He fired the scouting coordintor and the Pres. of Business Operations after success in the past. If you operate your franchise based on PR you shouldn't be running a franchise.

 

Agreed. Plus, it's my impression that Gibbons is hated by the casuals who must represent 90% of the fanbase.

 

On a related note, did Gibbons outdumb Francona or what by asking umps to check on Bauer? I mean, Francona seemed content to leave him in there.

 

Oh well, I really don't much care about Gibbons, formerly known as Gibby around these parts.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Shapiro will def see next year as a rebuilding or retooling year. Why fire Gibby in a year like that.

 

Why ruin all the new players in a rebuilding year by letting Gibbons "coach" them up?

[Slade]

Why ruin all the new players in a rebuilding year by letting Gibbons "coach" them up?

 

What do you think Gibbons job actually is? He's not there to teach baseball just manage the guys he has, I would say he is doing fine since our only strategy is 1 base at time and hope for the long ball.

[RealAccountant]

What do you think Gibbons job actually is? He's not there to teach baseball just manage the guys he has, I would say he is doing fine since our only strategy is 1 base at time and hope for the long ball.

 

Exactly

 

In baseball terms this has been a very successful year

[L54]

Wow! Gibby looks like a genius today. I'm excited to see him back next year.

[RealAccountant]

Screwed move possibility

 

Dont use Osuna

[John_Havok]

Anyone who things managers don't effect team success have a look at what Joe Maddon did with perennial losers Tampa and now the Cubs.

 

I don't think anyone thinks managers don't matter, just that over 162 games, they probably have very little overall impact on a teams win loss record, something like 3-5 games tops, and the difference between the best and worst managers is nowhere near what people think it is. Once a guy gets a managerial job, it's pretty safe to assume he knows just as much about baseball as any other manager.

 

The real talent in a manager is how he manages the egos and the psyche of his players. Theres probably truth that certain managers don't belong in certain clubhouses, guys like Cito who was known as a veterans manager probably wouldn't get along well with teams like the Cubs, made up primarily of younger guys.

 

Theres probably also truth that some managers don't manage the post season well, like I and several others are seeing in John Gibbons.

[JoeCarter]

Lol at this idea that Gibbons is atrocious while Francona is some sort of Mensa warlock. Most baseball managers matter very little, and always have. Brain-farts that are universally criticized like Showalter not using Britton are very few and far between. There's an argument to be made that the value of a baseball manager's lineup and in-game decisions have substantially less importance than how he manages the team's clubhouse culture. Ask the Red Sox about the 2012 Bobby Valentine disaster. The 2015-2016 Jays have had a lot of big egos and big personalities. In many ways it's surprising that there haven't been more in-fighting, beefs, and controversies. Gibbons deserves credit for that. A very small group of managers probably do have actual, measurable proficiency and will likely succeed in improving any team they coach. Others are just a compatible manager for the right team at the right time. Gibbons is the latter. He's been fine.

[Grant77]

I doesn't seem like something that we should praise him for, but other managers continue to give away free outs via the bunt in bad situations, so credit to Gibby for knowing the numbers and sticking to his guns. My biggest criticism is the lack of hit and runs in DP situations with contact guys up, but it's not a rideable offense or anything.

[TholesWeirdEye]

He should be fired for not subbing Saunders if he ever gets on base. That guy is the most retarded person running the bases.

[burlingtonbandit]

I mean what exactly are you seeing that is so ghastly that he has to be fired?

 

We lead the playoffs in bullpen ERA. I think we've given up 2 runs from the pen in over 20 innings. I feel like bullpen management is a big part of his job and I see him get s*** for it no matter what he does so far in the playoffs and yet here we are with the best bullpen. And he doesn't have Andrew Miller and Cody Allen to use 2 innings at a time either.

 

The lineup pretty much writes itself. Our hitters are s***. But I'm not seeing a whole lot to complain about there either. Is everyone hating Zeke? Bautista at leadoff is logical. Maybe he waited a little too long to flip Martin and Tulo? Very few of his decisions are earth shattering, he's basically flipping a coin between a few gas cans at the bottom of the order and just going 7-8-9 in the bullpen.

 

We haven't done any stupid s*** on the bases. I mean, Gibbons is basically just a "yes" man anyways and he just does his best to not f*** up during games with stupid unnecessary creative things like Farrell would do. He basically just flips a coin with the gas cans in the bottom of the order and goes 7-8-9 in the bullpen.

 

 

Bringing in Osuna was a pretty bad move today. He'll be pitching 3 consecutive days tomorrow. A 4 run lead in the 9th is pretty damn safe.

[TholesWeirdEye]

Bringing in Osuna was a pretty bad move today. He'll be pitching 3 consecutive days tomorrow. A 4 run lead in the 9th is pretty damn safe.

 

Zaun?

[Spanky99]

I mean what exactly are you seeing that is so ghastly that he has to be fired?

 

He didn't say he did, man.

[Mittens87]

Who else can you trust other than osuna with 4 run lead? If one or two guys get on osuna has to come in then anyway with a worse chance. Had to worry about game today and now tomorrow then a day off. Didn't Dave Roberts use jansen in a 6 run lead today? Giants blew a 3 run lead in 9th, I don't think it's worth risking it, take chances with him tomorrow if we have too unless it's like 7-1.

[glory]

Bringing in Osuna was a pretty bad move today. He'll be pitching 3 consecutive days tomorrow. A 4 run lead in the 9th is pretty damn safe.

 

He brought Osuna in when down 2 in Game 3 and up 4 in Game 4. He has no idea about leverage.

[CHRIS]

He brought Osuna in when down 2 in Game 3 and up 4 in Game 4. He has no idea about leverage.

 

I think the concept of leverage gets partially thrown out the window when you get into short series and must-win games. I don't have much problem with using Osuna for keeping games close and ensuring wins at this point. Even though tonight would be 3 games in a row for Osuna, he didn't throw too many pitches last night. Hopefully we can get score early and often so that he's not needed.

[AdamGreenwood]

Who else can you trust other than osuna with 4 run lead? If one or two guys get on osuna has to come in then anyway with a worse chance. Had to worry about game today and now tomorrow then a day off. Didn't Dave Roberts use jansen in a 6 run lead today? Giants blew a 3 run lead in 9th, I don't think it's worth risking it, take chances with him tomorrow if we have too unless it's like 7-1.

 

 

If we don't have any relief pitchers (other than Osuna) who can protect a 4-run lead in the 9th, we aren't going to get very far.

Using Osuna in that situation and in the 4-2 loss was egregious. If we bring in Osuna to close a tight game today, and he blows it, Gibbons should and will be fired.

 

Still, none of this comes close to how he mismanaged David Price last year. That was just embarrassing. Price is too much of a professional to say it publicly, but I'm sure Price told them he would never come back to Toronto after that.

[Sammy225]

I am mixed about it. If you bring in someone else last night and a couple guys get on you likely bring in Osuna in any way as it is a win or go home game. And with it likely being Tepera or Loup i would say there is a good chance of that happening.

[Dr. Dinger]

If we bring in Osuna to close a tight game today, and he blows it, Gibbons should and will be fired.

 

Managers don't usually get fired after coaching their team to back-to-back LCS's. I guess it could happen but I definitely don't see it as a probability. People can harp on Gibby for his bullpen management, but actually I think he's done about as well as he could with the options at his disposal. The one thing I didn't like yesterday was pitching Brett Cecil against righties in a critical spot, that was pretty bad. Credit to Francona for using Davis as a PH against Cecil (Davis has great career numbers against lefties), and Gibby didn't want to pull Cecil after one hitter.

 

Other than that, Gibby has been open to some very non-traditional things, like hitting Bautista leadoff and Donaldson 2nd. 90% of MLB managers would bat Donaldson third and consider it heresy to put him anywhere else. I agree with Grant that I would like to see more H&R attempts at the bottom of the order with the likes of Carrera, Pillar, 2B, in situations where we can afford to (or need to) take a risk.

[fatcowxlive]

Bringing in Osuna was a pretty bad move today. He'll be pitching 3 consecutive days tomorrow. A 4 run lead in the 9th is pretty damn safe.

 

It's literally a must win game. A 4 run lead can get out of hand really quickly with this team.

[burlingtonbandit]

It's literally a must win game. A 4 run lead can get out of hand really quickly with this team.

 

Goal is to win the series. Bringing in Osuna with a 4 run lead lessens your chance to win today by a larger margin than it did increasing the chance to win yesterday. You don't pitch him yesterday he can probably go 2 innings today.

[burlingtonbandit]

Managers don't usually get fired after coaching their team to back-to-back LCS's. I guess it could happen but I definitely don't see it as a probability. People can harp on Gibby for his bullpen management, but actually I think he's done about as well as he could with the options at his disposal. The one thing I didn't like yesterday was pitching Brett Cecil against righties in a critical spot, that was pretty bad. Credit to Francona for using Davis as a PH against Cecil (Davis has great career numbers against lefties), and Gibby didn't want to pull Cecil after one hitter.

 

Other than that, Gibby has been open to some very non-traditional things, like hitting Bautista leadoff and Donaldson 2nd. 90% of MLB managers would bat Donaldson third and consider it heresy to put him anywhere else. I agree with Grant that I would like to see more H&R attempts at the bottom of the order with the likes of Carrera, Pillar, 2B, in situations where we can afford to (or need to) take a risk.

 

Brett Cecil is fantastic vs RHH as well as lefties. I hate wasting him for 1 or 2 PA when he is good enough to pitch an entire inning.