GDT(2/3): Tampa Bay Rays @ Your Toronto Blue Jays - Archer vs. Stroman - 7:07 PM ET

[TheGrandslamMan]

It hurt at first to see AA leave, but over time I've come to see just how much the farm system and organizational depth was completely depleted under his tenure. Unless Beeston had stayed and been able to persuade Rogers to fork out more money on the free agent market in order to cover the deficiencies on this squad (that are becoming more and more obvious), this season was likely going to unfold in the way we're seeing it now and I am starting to believe that AA saw this coming and split.

 

I don't envy Shatkins; their work is really cut out for them.

 

Yeah, I definitely agree with what you're saying. I wasn't a big fan of AA initially, but he seemed to get a better grasp on things through the years. To his credit he always did have a great knack for rebuilding the farm efficiently. I would have liked to see how he let things play out.

[TheHurl]

He's been injured most of the year. He just came back, I'm not gonna make any judgement based on 47 PA's. Look at his career stats for a better understanding of his ability.

 

but you are going to judge Storen on a potentially injured 13 innings with a 25% HR rate and still has a 3.32 xFIP. Look at his career stats for a better understanding of his ability...you f***ing tool.

[TheGrandslamMan]

Shatkins probably don't even want Bautista/Edwin back next year. Gotta start rebuilding somewhat in 2017. That means no large contracts to anyone over age 30.

 

I agree, but if that's the case he probably should have moved at least one of them for a massive haul. Hell, get an epic return for Bautista and keep Revere.

[thatoneguy]

White hot takes here.

[TheGrandslamMan]

but you are going to judge Storen on a potentially injured 13 innings with a 25% HR rate and still has a 3.32 xFIP. Look at his career stats for a better understanding of his ability...you f***ing tool.

 

Storens velocity is down across the board though so at this point his past career numbers are irrelevant.

 

Not sure what the insult and anger is all about.

[TheGrandslamMan]

How were they insulted? David Ortiz has been playing out the entire back end of his career on 1-2 year deals. Adrian Beltre literally just signed a 2-year $36 million extension, and unlike Bautista he not only can still play defensively, he's one of the best at his position.

 

Yet you think that we're low-balling Bautista and EE? Get real.

 

I don't think they are, but there was reports at the beginning of the year about these guys not being happy with what was offered.

[Krylian]

Argooooooos!

[nextyear]

I had a bad feeling about the team when Sanchez was made a starting pitcher instead of being in the bullpen like last year. This team needed a strong bullpen but instead they have more than 5 potential starters and a weak bullpen.

[glory]

Shatkins probably don't even want Bautista/Edwin back next year. Gotta start rebuilding somewhat in 2017. That means no large contracts to anyone over age 30.

 

Yep. This roster only had one more year of contention before it has to be dismantled. Shapkins knew that, and built the team like they did accordingly. No way this regime wants to keep all the old players, with good reason. They don't want to pay market value for the declining years, and the window for this roster is closing rapidly. AA left before he could Amaro this team even more than he already did.

 

I want the Jays to make the playoffs and win the World Series this year, but if they lose, I want them to go full 2013. They have a ton of trade chips that will be free agents at the end of the season, and a farm system/MLB roster that desperately needs young talent. It makes a ton of sense to unload vets at the deadline if they fall out of it. It might even be better for the team long-term to go that route, but obviously if they have to real chance to make the playoffs, that should take greater priority.

[Praxis]

but you are going to judge Storen on a potentially injured 13 innings with a 25% HR rate and still has a 3.32 xFIP. Look at his career stats for a better understanding of his ability...you f***ing tool.

 

I thought you weren't bitter?

[TheGrandslamMan]

It's crazy how much the offense has regressed. I didn't see this coming from Martin.

 

We're now only 1 game ahead of the Yankees in last place. That's another problem, you fall to far back and then you have to leapfrog 4 teams.

[Terminator]

I had a bad feeling about the team when Sanchez was made a starting pitcher instead of being in the bullpen like last year. This team needed a strong bullpen but instead they have more than 5 potential starters and a weak bullpen.

 

That was a brilliant move that has worked out very very well for us.

[Governator]

This forum is going to shrink down to < 10 active members by July 1st.

[TorontonianJD]

Would they ever bring Hutch up for the bullpen?

[Belliss101]

This forum is going to shrink down to < 10 active members by July 1st.

 

And down to 7 once they have no name players after the overhaul.

[vdubmvp]

This forum is going to shrink down to < 10 active members by July 1st.

 

Nah, we'll just lose all the casuals. And what a damn shame that will be...

[nextyear]

I haven't been impressed with Martin's defense - passed balls, poor throws to 2nd on steal attempts, and I wonder if part of the poor pitching performances from the bullpen is because of poor pitch selection by Martin.

 

Whatever is the problem, I don't see things getting much better. I think the best the Blue Jays will do this year is a .500 season.

[dineke]

This forum is going to shrink down to < 10 active members by July 1st.

 

more than the number of people at the skydome

[TheGrandslamMan]

If the Jays keep losing do you think Shapiro fires Gibby during the season or waits until the year plays out so he can do a clean sweet and let the new manager bring in his guys?

[nextyear]

That was a brilliant move that has worked out very very well for us.

 

What is going well with this team, so many good starts have been ruined by an unreliable bullpen.

 

The teams that do well seem to have average starting pitching (average MLB pitching is still good pitching) and strong bullpens.

[Jimcanuck]

If the Jays keep losing do you think Shapiro fires Gibby during the season or waits until the year plays out so he can do a clean sweet and let the new manager bring in his guys?

 

Signs him to an extension

[Belliss101]

What is going well with this team, so many good starts have been ruined by an unreliable bullpen.

 

The teams that do well seem to have average starting pitching (average MLB pitching is still good pitching) and strong bullpens.

 

Mets, Nats, Cubs, White Sox, etc all have excellent starting pitching

[THANOS]

Stroman should feel bad after tonight, and hopefully someone tells him to abandon the P2C idea completely going forward.

[Stangstag]

Stroman should feel bad after tonight, and hopefully someone tells him to abandon the P2C idea completely going forward.

 

He had like 6 Ks in his last start against the Giants...

[nextyear]

I need to overcome this addiction to watching losing baseball teams, first the Expos and now the Blue Jays. I imagine that it must be like a gambling addiction, always expecting things to turn around. I guess I am lucky to only be addicted to poor Canadian baseball teams.

[THANOS]

He had like 6 Ks in his last start against the Giants...

 

His last 3 starts he didn't have the dependence on the 2SM. He returned to his crap philosophy tonight and returned to his April results, only amplified.

[BTS]

I really hope that Travis' return means I've seen the last of Ryan Goins on my TV.

[RealAccountant]

Players are playing terrible

 

Coaching sucks

 

Manager is horrible

 

Front office doing nothing to stop the building

 

Let's all blame AA it's all his fault

[dineke]

Players are playing terrible

 

Coaching sucks

 

Manager is horrible

 

Front office doing nothing to stop the building

 

Let's all blame AA it's all his fault

 

AA sucks man deal with it

[glory]

The sad thing is, casual fans will blame this season on Shapiro if things go poorly, even though it's AA's roster with AA's manager/pitching coach/hitting coach and AA's fingerprints all over it. The fact that people acted like he was a God when he left still embarrasses me as a fan. Toronto fans are so thirsty they were blinded by what could be a one off playoff run.