Jays acquire Jesse Chavez

[Laika]

3/25 is a bit too rich for Chavez. WAR be damned, he still falls into the "swing man" archetype, and the market wouldn't grant him that much money.

 

Jason Hammel and Edinson Volquez got 2/20 last season

 

The last guy I can think of kind of like Chavez that hit FA was Carlos Villanueva, actually. I think he got 2/$10

[guylaroche5]

I'm gonna miss Liam but I'm OK with this trade. Gibby clearly didn't want him pitching in high leverage situations. Better to have depth at the starter position than an elite reliever who only comes into the game when the Jays are up/down by 8 runs.

[BTS]

3/25 is a bit too rich for Chavez. WAR be damned, he still falls into the "swing man" archetype, and the market wouldn't grant him that much money.

 

Jason Hammel and Edinson Volquez got 2/20 last season

 

The last guy I can think of kind of like Chavez that hit FA was Carlos Villanueva, actually. I think he got 2/$10

 

Villanueva was who came to mind. When I mentioned an extension I was thinking something like 5/7/7 with an option or something tacked on to the end. A guaranteed 15M after this year could be pretty enticing for a guy who has never started a full season.

[KingKat]

sure, either team could win the deal. thats baseball

 

steamer has chavez at 2.2 war, hendriks at 0.7 war in 2016

 

It's early. Projected roles within team contexts will cause those projections to move. Right now they have Hendriks down for 55 IP and Chavez down for 174 so basically Chavez providing 3 times the value by providing 3 times the innings.

[Grant77]

3/25 is a bit too rich for Chavez. WAR be damned, he still falls into the "swing man" archetype, and the market wouldn't grant him that much money.

 

Jason Hammel and Edinson Volquez got 2/20 last season

 

The last guy I can think of kind of like Chavez that hit FA was Carlos Villanueva, actually. I think he got 2/$10

 

I just can't see the Jays making this trade and then valuing him at less than 10 million per season. Maybe he'd take less than that, but there's no way for me to know.

[glory]

Yeah an extension for Chavez should be very cheap, otherwise just keep him for a year and hope he reaches or exceeds his projection.

[BTS]

I just can't see the Jays making this trade and then valuing him at less than 10 million per season. Maybe he'd take less than that, but there's no way for me to know.

 

They might know he's worth more but figure they can get him for less.

[burlingtonbandit]

This trade doesn't necessarily mean that Sanchez won't get traded and possibly in a more interesting trade. Not saying it will happen but you have to kind of see how things play out before you attack the trade from that angle AND that's assuming that the A's wanted Sanchez in the first place. We have no idea how the A's value Sanchez. For all we know, they might be laughing at the Jays for giving so much more leverage to Sanchez than to Hendriks.

 

Well I don't like the trade player for player. I just think you could of got a 4th/5th starter for less. You are probably right about Sanchez and the As but then there are probably other teams like the Braves who value Sanchez's skillset more. If Chavez had more than 1 year of control I would like it a lot more.

 

I think people are overlooking that the Jays have to pay Chavez $4 million more than Hendriks. I would much rather pay a FA starter an extra 5 million and keep Hendriks.

[Brownie19]

Good controllable relievers don't grow on trees, the Jays just filled one hole by creating another.

 

It's like some forget that AA picked Hendriks out of the garbage pile last year.

[Grant77]

It's early. Projected roles within team contexts will cause those projections to move. Right now they have Hendriks down for 55 IP and Chavez down for 174 so basically Chavez providing 3 times the value by providing 3 times the innings.

 

Well yeah, but Hendriks' projections would be worse as a starter and Chavez' would be better as a reliever. You can't look at it like that.

[BTS]

It's like some forget that AA picked Hendriks out of the garbage pile last year.

 

You can't just count on being able to do it at will though.

[Grant77]

They might know he's worth more but figure they can get him for less.

 

Sure, that's possible.

[Laika]

I just can't see the Jays making this trade and then valuing him at less than 10 million per season. Maybe he'd take less than that, but there's no way for me to know.

 

Well I think there might be a delta between what he's "worth" in hypothetical $/WAR and what the free agent market would say that he's worth, that's all.

 

If the Jays think he can start ~20 games and approach 2 WAR again then of course he's "worth" over 10 mill. But that doesn't mean they have to extend him for that much!

[Jimcanuck]

Jays do not have a lefthanded starter.

 

Does it matter? Or is JA Happ a possibility as a fifth starter.

 

Stroman

?

Dickey

Estrada

Happ

 

Depth - Chavez, Hutchison, Sanchez

[KingKat]

Well yeah, but Hendriks' projections would be worse as a starter and Chavez' would be better as a reliever. You can't look at it like that.

 

Not but I'm wrong in saying that these are very early projections what will fluctuate and I can also quite legitimately put a serious question marks on an IP total from Steamer because their playing time projections have no real value. That IP total is completely unprecedented from Chavez.

[BTS]

Jays do not have a lefthanded starter.

 

Does it matter? Or is JA Happ a possibility as a fifth starter.

 

Stroman

?

Dickey

Estrada

Happ

 

Depth - Chavez, Hutchison, Sanchez

 

Is there anything suggesting that having a left-handed starter actually matters?

[nmrch]

It's like some forget that AA picked Hendriks out of the garbage pile last year.

 

complete nonsense. To what degree of certainty would you say LaCava can pick up someone as good as Hendriks for nothing? Its true that lucking into a good reliever is easier than it is with a starter or a position player but you can't do it at will like BTS said. Its no reason to give up good assets for 10 cents on the dollar.

[glory]

You can't just count on being able to do it at will though.

 

It's easier to find a reliever than a starter, so in that sense, the Jays are far more likely to get a 60 IP surprise from a waiver pick up or minor trade than 150-180 IP of what Chavez is projected to do.

 

Your point is accurate though. It's not easy to find guys that turn out to be as good as Hendriks was last season.

[KingKat]

It's like some forget that AA picked Hendriks out of the garbage pile last year.

 

It's like some forget that the A's picked up Chavez from the Jays' garbage pile.

[Grant77]

Jays do not have a lefthanded starter.

 

Does it matter? Or is JA Happ a possibility as a fifth starter.

 

Stroman

?

Dickey

Estrada

Happ

 

Depth - Chavez, Hutchison, Sanchez

 

No and No

[CJ-Freeway]

I'd rather have Hendriks. I guess this confirms how s***** our rotation is going to look next year.

 

Stroman

Estrada

Dickey

Chavez

Hutchison

 

 

If that's our rotation next year, we're going to get potentially lit up every 2-3 games.

[Jimcanuck]

Is there anything suggesting that having a left-handed starter actually matters?

 

Haven't seen anything but the traditional thinking is a mix of right and left handers

[Jimcanuck]

No and No

 

You right, Happ likely looking for 4/40 or something.... too much risk

 

Who would you target among the FA class?

[Grant77]

Haven't seen anything but the traditional thinking is a mix of right and left handers

 

The notion of different styles messing with hitters is legit, but Dickey is more different than any left hander we could get.

[Grant77]

You right, Happ likely looking for 4/50 or something.... too much risk

 

Who would you target among the FA class?

 

I like Iwakuma.

[HERPDERP]

LaCava disappoint

[Jimcanuck]

The notion of different styles messing with hitters is legit, but Dickey is more different than any left hander we could get.

 

So for max effect, a lefty in the mix along with Dickey would do the trick

 

Kazmir

[JFD]

LaCava dumn, dumn.

 

Yer dumn... Jonn.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dumn

[RealAccountant]

Seriously we just acquired a starter for s reliever. This is a good deal. Yes Hendrik's could have started but that is a maybe

 

I hope this is not it for the rotation

[Laika]

If that's our rotation next year, we're going to get potentially lit up every 2-3 games.

 

2015:

 

Price + Stroman for 15 total games

Dickey

Buehrle

Estrada

Hutchison

Sanchez/Norris/Doubront/Copeland/Boyd who were all terrible

 

2016:

 

Stroman for a full season

Dickey

Estrada

Chavez

Hutch

 

really that different?