Westhead: Shapiro Told Blue Jays Payroll To Be $140MM+

[Jimcanuck]

Everyone is obviously available for trade for the right price but have to remember that if you trade a player like Pillar, Bautista, Tulo or whoever that you have to replace that player with close to equal production unless you want to make the team a lot worse next year.

 

I'm not sure taking wins away from the team next year is a good strategy unless you are getting a massive massive upgrade in the future.

 

Keep in mind, the Tulo trade would not have been made if Travis was not injured.

 

Moving Tulo to at least partially recoup the prospects lost to Colorado is extremely likely.

[burlingtonbandit]

How is a sports hernia serious?

 

Any 30+ year old athlete will have a string of hamstring or quad strains on their resume. I don't think Edwin's finger injury from this year sounds like anything that will persist. The thing to be a bit more concerned with IMO is Bautista's mysterious weird shoulder thing from earlier this year. That thing went on for weeks and weeks and was even characterized at times as a "quality of life" issue than rose above baseball.

 

Well with Bautista's shoulder injury he still was able to hit through it, and very well at that. If he's going to be moved to 1st base/DH in a year or 2 anyway the shoulder isn't too concerning.

 

Outside of injury risks, EE seems to already be declining with his more whiffs and less contact with pitches in the zone. Meanwhile Bautista has maintained the same rate since 2009 so I can see why people see EE as the bigger risk moving forward.

 

IMO if I had to choose between the two for then next 3 years I would take Bautista.

[ElNik2013]

Pillar is exactly the type of player Shapiro would want to keep. Undervalued by most teams because of his defense, still has 5 years of control left, why move him?

 

Seems there are people on the board making a lot of statements like we should trade "x" player because of this! It doesn't and shouldn't work like that. Everyone is obviously available for trade for the right price but have to remember that if you trade a player like Pillar, Bautista, Tulo or whoever that you have to replace that player with close to equal production unless you want to make the team a lot worse next year.

 

I'm not sure taking wins away from the team next year is a good strategy unless you are getting a massive massive upgrade in the future.

 

 

I didn't say "we should", I said 'maybe sell high on Pillar'. It doesn't have to be Pillar, in particular, but I think Shapiro will make a couple of trades to improve the team's long-term chances. Maybe it won't be this off season though. We'll see.

[burlingtonbandit]

Keep in mind, the Tulo trade would not have been made if Travis was not injured.

 

Moving Tulo to at least partially recoup the prospects lost to Colorado is extremely likely.

 

The Tulo trade was made when Travis was healthy so that is wrong. Its not about recouping prospects and "stocking the farm system". If you move Tulo its about short and long term value not getting prospects back because you traded a bunch last year. I hate the narrative of we need to stock the farm system because of last year.

 

Shapiro isn't going to make a trade just for the sake of getting younger.

[ElNik2013]

Question for Shapiro:

 

 

Do you own socks and do you usually wear them?

[Jimcanuck]

The Tulo trade was made when Travis was healthy so that is wrong. Its not about recouping prospects and "stocking the farm system". If you move Tulo its about short and long term value not getting prospects back because you traded a bunch last year. I hate the narrative of we need to stock the farm system because of last year.

 

Shapiro isn't going to make a trade just for the sake of getting younger.

 

Sure he is.

[L54]

Keep in mind, the Tulo trade would not have been made if Travis was not injured.

 

Moving Tulo to at least partially recoup the prospects lost to Colorado is extremely likely.

 

Ya I don't think any of this is very true.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Bautista isn't going to accept being a DH. I don't think this is the right time to do it anyway. If his arm is healthy he's not nearly as bad as everyone thinks in RF. He's below average but isn't some black hole at the position. And when you have 8 Plus defensive players at every position around him you can afford to have a bad defensive player in RF.

 

So having all the Bats we have around Goins he isn't as bad either! Just using your logic!!! Cool beans buddy

[burlingtonbandit]

I didn't say "we should", I said 'maybe sell high on Pillar'. It doesn't have to be Pillar, in particular, but I think Shapiro will make a couple of trades to improve the team's long-term chances. Maybe it won't be this off season though. We'll see.

 

I'd be in favour of just spending 60-80 million on IFA next year similar to what the Yankees did to get long term value. Even if you hit on 2-3 players it would make the investment worth it.

[burlingtonbandit]

So having all the Bats we have around Goins he isn't as bad either! Just using your logic!!! Cool beans buddy

 

I wouldn't say it works the other way around though. Because one of the advantages to having a really good offense that is deep is that you get more PA for the guys at the top of the lineup because you go through the order more times.

 

So say the downgrade from Tulo to Goins is 2 Wins. Well the value lost is likely more than 2 Wins because by having Tulo's bat instead of Goins in the lineup you go through the order more times getting additional WAR from players at the top of the lineup like Bautista, Donaldson, EE since they are getting more PA.

 

By having an above average OF instead of a below average OF it doesn't make the other 8 defensive players better, which would be the case by having a better bat instead of a below average one.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

So Batz at DH is bad for him or the team?

 

He will get plenty of playing time as well not like he'd just DH full time.

 

He can spell at on in the OF, 1st and 3rd when needed or when injuries happen!

 

f*** if big Papi and other Stars can do it, why or is it Jose ego really the issue that doesn't allow this?

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

I wouldn't say it works the other way around though. Because one of the advantages to having a really good offense that is deep is that you get more PA for the guys at the top of the lineup because you go through the order more times.

 

So say the downgrade from Tulo to Goins is 2 Wins. Well the value lost is likely more than 2 Wins because by having Tulo's bat instead of Goins in the lineup you go through the order more times getting additional WAR from players at the top of the lineup like Bautista, Donaldson, EE since they are getting more PA.

 

By having an above average OF instead of a below average OF it doesn't make the other 8 defensive players better, which would be the case by having a better bat instead of a below average one.

 

Not completely True a above average defensive player can make a average player better too just do to range and ground the average player needs to cover ! Especially when factoring in all the shifts!

[burlingtonbandit]

So Batz at DH is bad for him or the team?

 

He will get plenty of playing time as well not like he'd just DH full time.

 

He can spell at on in the OF, 1st and 3rd when needed or when injuries happen!

 

f*** if big Papi and other Stars can do it, why or is it Jose ego really the issue that doesn't allow this?

 

I think the issue is he is a FA next year and it would cost him money on the open market if he's a DH rather than an everyday player. I would think after he signed an extension or gets a contract he would be much more open to DHing.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

How if other teams see him as a DH moving forward also?

 

Then sign him to a extension and Boom goes the Dynamite!!!

[Nafro]

Keep in mind, the Tulo trade would not have been made if Travis was not injured.

 

Moving Tulo to at least partially recoup the prospects lost to Colorado is extremely likely.

 

The health of our second baseman had nothing to do with upgrading our shortstop.

[Krylian]

The health of our second baseman had nothing to do with upgrading our shortstop.

 

Agreed. One has nothing to do with the other.

[Rusty_Savage]

Keep in mind, the Tulo trade would not have been made if Travis was not injured.

 

Moving Tulo to at least partially recoup the prospects lost to Colorado is extremely likely.

 

This post made my day

[intentional wok]

Keep in mind, the Tulo trade would not have been made if Travis was not injured.

 

Moving Tulo to at least partially recoup the prospects lost to Colorado is extremely likely.

 

I can't see why the prospect of acquiring Troy Tulowitzki would in any way be affected by Travis getting hurt. I mean, if you're already willing to move Reyes and prospects for Tulo to begin with, why did it take an injury to a rookie 2B to finalize the decision?

 

But IIRC, Travis didn't suffer his ultimately season-ending injury until after the trade was made. He just coincidentally happened to hurt himself in the game that Tulo didn't arrive in Toronto for (Hawkins was there). Technically, Travis and Tulo were already teammates when Travis kinked his shoulder on that swing.

[flafson]

Keep in mind, the Tulo trade would not have been made if Travis was not injured.

 

Moving Tulo to at least partially recoup the prospects lost to Colorado is extremely likely.

 

AA said he tried to get Tulo for Reyes during the off season, had nothing to do with Travis, they were just willing to hit the trigger before the trade deadline.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Boxy is right, and fair enough, hyperbole at its finest?

 

(Using the Nats as an example to my exaggerated post) The Nationals have had a problem coming close to expectations the past few years with a stud lineup and rotation.

 

I believe there would be a decent drop in attendance if the Jays failed to make the playoffs in 2016

 

I don't understand why fans would stop going to games or following the Jays because they didn't hit on expectations.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I definitely think Shapiro will make a move to restock the farm system this off season. Maybe sell high on Pillar?

 

Pillar is more valuable to us than he would net in trade.

[GD]

Pillar is more valuable to us than he would net in trade.

 

You don't really know that

[Laika]

You don't really know that

 

but it's likely.

 

Outside of shorstops and catchers, defense first players seem to carry disproportionate trade value compared to offense first players. Seem to. Possibly not though. Might be worth studying.

[o2cui2i]

AA said he tried to get Tulo for Reyes during the off season, had nothing to do with Travis, they were just willing to hit the trigger before the trade deadline.

 

AA said he didn't like the idea of including Hoffman during the off season talks but I guess Reyes was so bad AA felt it was worth Hoffman to get rid of Reyes mid season.

[o2cui2i]

(Using the Nats as an example to my exaggerated post) The Nationals have had a problem coming close to expectations the past few years with a stud lineup and rotation.

 

I believe there would be a decent drop in attendance if the Jays failed to make the playoffs in 2016

 

I don't understand why fans would stop going to games or following the Jays because they didn't hit on expectations.

 

Toronto has so many options vying for people's cash. Die hards will watch through painful times and go nuts during years like this where we fielded a top team, but there are a large number who are only there for the party.

 

I don't think attendance will drop off too much if the Jays are in a run all the way to the end of the season, but if they are out of things in August the sept numbers will be really bad.

[nonamejays]

If the Jays season goes like the last 22, probably will only get 12-14K fans in August/Sept, possibly less if they decide to sell on Jose/EE.

[burlingtonbandit]

If the Jays season goes like the last 22, probably will only get 12-14K fans in August/Sept, possibly less if they decide to sell on Jose/EE.

 

They have over 20,000 season ticket holders so I can guarantee you won't see those type of numbers. I'm actually excited to see what Shapiro does on the business side of things as well. RC is needing some renovations.

[GeorgiaPeach]

You don't really know that

 

You're right. And I also don't know if Pillar will make the greatest catch of all time by jumping from the CN Tower and make a catch on the field and live.

[KingKat]

AA said he didn't like the idea of including Hoffman during the off season talks but I guess Reyes was so bad AA felt it was worth Hoffman to get rid of Reyes mid season.

 

Not to mention that the suppressed K totals were going to make Hoffmann lose value in the short term. It was a good time to sell.

[GD]

You're right. And I also don't know if Pillar will make the greatest catch of all time by jumping from the CN Tower and make a catch on the field and live.

 

What are you even saying Gibbers