Westhead: Shapiro Told Blue Jays Payroll To Be $140MM+

[Spanky99]

There's a reason why his projections dropped almost 10% between the offseason and the end of June. When he does decline, it will look like his first 300 PA this year (drop in BB rate, spike in K-rate etc...). If you looked at that and didn't acknowledge that it was a bit concerning you weren't being honest.

 

Yet, I was being honest? I told you to give him time he's a slow starter, etc, and you fluffed me off. You can just say I was right, and you were wrong, it's okay.

 

Same thing happened a few years back with Joey Bats, I was right.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Well, he did tell me EE was on a regression, cause of age

 

At some point this will be the case.

[Boxcar]

At some point this will be the case.

 

You don't say

[Spanky99]

Why's that?

 

Torontonians and Canadians aren't really baseball fans like they claim?

 

Stop GP, that's not fair to most of this forum or folk who follow the team religiously. Bandwagon fans are in every city in the MLB, the NYY show it. No Jeter, no face of the franchise, no fans. It happens everywhere?

[Spanky99]

At some point this will be the case.

 

Uhmmm...

[BTS]

Yet, I was being honest? I told you to give him time he's a slow starter, etc, and you fluffed me off. You can just say I was right, and you were wrong, it's okay.

 

It's not about being right and wrong, but nuanced arguments tend to get lost on you. The exchanges went something like:

 

"It's halfway through the season and Edwin's K-rate and BB-rate are getting concerning. They stabilize pretty quickly"

"Edwin's fine mate. Don't be stupid, he's not declining!"

"Maybe not, but at this point you have to be a bit concerned"

"No, he's fine!"

"..."

[Spanky99]

You don't say

 

lol

[Spanky99]

It's not about being right and wrong, but nuanced arguments tend to get lost on you. The exchanges went something like:

 

"It's halfway through the season and Edwin's K-rate and BB-rate are getting concerning. They stabilize pretty quickly"

"Edwin's fine mate. Don't be stupid, he's not declining!"

"Maybe not, but at this point you have to be a bit concerned"

"No, he's fine!"

"..."

 

I said I was concerned, but figured he'd bounce back. I was right, you were WRONG!

 

*disclaimer* Same as J Bats 2 years ago.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Stop GP, that's not fair to most of this forum or folk who follow the team religiously. Bandwagon fans are in every city in the MLB, the NYY show it. No Jeter, no face of the franchise, no fans. It happens everywhere?

 

Isn't it weird the Jays would lose a huge following if they started losing again. But the ACC & Maple Leaf Gardens have sold out religiously for decades?

 

What do you think the reasoning is?

[BTS]

I said I was concerned, but figured he'd bounce back. I was right, you were WRONG!

 

Your argument was basically "I like the Blue Jays. Edwin's a Blue Jay. Therefore I like Edwin and he's not declining". And I never made a statement other than to say that his numbers were getting to the point where you have to be a bit concerned that he's not a 150 wRC+ guy anymore. And they were getting to that point. That's why projections dropped consistently throughout the first three months.

 

If you feel compelled to call me out for being wrong, there are endless examples to choose from. This is not one.

[Spanky99]

Isn't it weird the Jays would lose a huge following if they started losing again. But the ACC & Maple Leaf Gardens have sold out religiously for decades?

 

What do you think the reasoning is?

 

Corporate seating, they own 17,000 of the 18 + seats, it'll never change.

[GeorgiaPeach]

You don't say

 

I wanna be a part of witnessing that.

 

Edwin DH'ing. Comfortably into his new deal and he starts declining.

[Spanky99]

Your argument was basically "I like the Blue Jays. Edwin's a Blue Jay. Therefore I like Edwin and he's not declining". And I never made a statement other than to say that his numbers were getting to the point where you have to be a bit concerned that he's not a 150 wRC+ guy anymore. And they were getting to that point. That's why projections dropped consistently throughout the first three months.

 

If you feel compelled to call me out for being wrong, there are endless examples to choose from. This is not one.

 

If that's how you feel BTS, I won't argue. I said he's always been a slow starter, but you brought up his K/BB rates, I said small sample size, it was and still is a small sample size...I was right.

 

P.S. He tore it up injured all season to boot. No inclination of regression, yet.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Corporate seating, they own 17,000 of the 18 + seats, it'll never change.

 

Jay, even if the seats weren't owned corporately the stupid hockey fans of Southern Ontario would still have filled the ACC or MLG.

 

No questions asked.

[Laika]

I wanna be a part of witnessing that.

 

Edwin DH'ing. Comfortably into his new deal and he starts declining.

 

Aging curves need to be factored into everything, but no teams should categorically trade guys once they hit some age threshold. Case by case basis.

 

The Red Sox are probably pretty happy they didn't get rid of Ortiz when he turned 33.

 

What specifically about EE makes you want him gone, or makes you think he's going to drop off? Much like Ortiz, he seems to combine a unique level of power, patience, and contact. Same with Jose. Of course they could fall off a cliff at any point, but graceful declines are more likely IMO.

[Spanky99]

I wanna be a part of witnessing that.

 

Edwin DH'ing. Comfortably into his new deal and he starts declining.

 

What new deal?

[Spanky99]

Jay, even if the seats weren't owned corporately the stupid hockey fans of Southern Ontario would still have filled the ACC or MLG.

 

No questions asked.

 

The 80's say different.

[thatoneguy]

So GeorgiaPeach just wants to totally dismantle this team and start over I see.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Aging curves need to be factored into everything, but no teams should categorically trade guys once they hit some age threshold. Case by case basis.

 

The Red Sox are probably pretty happy they didn't get rid of Ortiz when he turned 33.

 

What specifically about EE makes you want him gone, or makes you think he's going to drop off? Much like Ortiz, he seems to combine a unique level of power, patience, and contact. Same with Jose. Of course they could fall off a cliff at any point, but graceful declines are more likely IMO.

 

Risk.

 

Why risk watching or waiting for a decline.

 

If you trade him for a prospect package, you free up the close to 20m you'll likely have to pay a DH. You spend that money on an area of need and use the prospects to provide further flexibility to the farm.

 

I know prospects carry significant risk, moreso than Edwin all of a sudden declining. But you would still have the 20m you would've spent on Edwin, to spend elsewhere.

 

And honestly, I'd rather have Jason Heyward at 25m per on a FA deal and have a couple of really good prospects plopped into the farm as a return for Edwin, than I would watching Edwin DH into is late 30's and possibly decline.

[GeorgiaPeach]

What new deal?

 

You expect him & Bautista to walk next year?

[Spanky99]

Risk.

 

Why risk watching or waiting for a decline.

 

If you trade him for a prospect package, you free up the close to 20m you'll likely have to pay a DH. You spend that money on an area of need and use the prospects to provide further flexibility to the farm.

 

I know prospects carry significant risk, moreso than Edwin all of a sudden declining. But you would still have the 20m you would've spent on Edwin, to spend elsewhere.

 

And honestly, I'd rather have Jason Heyward at 25m per on a FA deal and have a couple of really good prospects plopped into the farm as a return for Edwin, than I would watching Edwin DH into is late 30's and possibly decline.

 

Or the Jays go for another run, and take the QO's?

 

PS: Jays might still try to sign a Heyward type, who knows, I'd be estatic.

[Spanky99]

You expect him & Bautista to walk next year?

 

Pretty much under Shapiro, he needs to build from within the core.

[GeorgiaPeach]

So GeorgiaPeach just wants to totally dismantle this team and start over I see.

 

I didn't say anything about moving Martin, Donaldson or Tulowitzki.

 

And there's a handful of players who are more valuable to the Jays than they are in trade.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Or the Jays go for another run, and take the QO's?

 

That's the 2nd best scenario.

[L54]

Who is giving you a couple of really good prospects for Edwin? Better yet what team is Edwin going to agree to go to that will fork over a couple of really good ones?

[GeorgiaPeach]

My bad. Edwin's garbage.

[thatoneguy]

Uh ok? EE is not garbage, but I certainly think he is worth more to the Jays than he would be in a trade.

[Laika]

Risk.

 

Why risk watching or waiting for a decline.

 

If you trade him for a prospect package, you free up the close to 20m you'll likely have to pay a DH. You spend that money on an area of need and use the prospects to provide further flexibility to the farm.

 

I know prospects carry significant risk, moreso than Edwin all of a sudden declining. But you would still have the 20m you would've spent on Edwin, to spend elsewhere.

 

And honestly, I'd rather have Jason Heyward at 25m per on a FA deal and have a couple of really good prospects plopped into the farm as a return for Edwin, than I would watching Edwin DH into is late 30's and possibly decline.

 

It all depends on the contract it would take to extend him and the prospects that they could fetch in trade, so it's pointless to debate. I would support trading him in certain scenarios too.

 

Really hard to do right now with the state of the current team though. Huge chance to make another WS run in 2016 and his option is so cheap. I guess if you can get a controllable piece that would be able to contribute in 2016 too then you could pull the trigger.

[Spanky99]

My bad. Edwin's garbage.

 

lol... love the satire.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Uh ok? EE is not garbage, but I certainly think he is worth more to the Jays than he would be in a trade.

 

Then let him walk and QO him.

 

I want the Jays to be done with Edwin & Jose after the 2016 season.