Russel Martin plans to catch RA Dickey

[TBJ12]

Not for 5 million, sorry.

 

I'd be surprised if AA can't find someone willing to deal a decent reliever or low upside prospect for Navarro.

[JaysFan4Ever]

I'm surprised Navarro is still with the team honestly. I figured someone would have made a call or two with a fairly decent offer after Martin was signed. Then again maybe the other GMs know AA might have a commodity they'd like to have (offensive catcher) but he's in a bit of a bind because they know it'll be hard for the Jays to accommodate Navarro as far as catching, getting ABs in, and knowing he'd want to be a catcher so they're not going to blow AA away with an offer and absorb the $5M attached. Kind of make AA get desperate to move him to someone and take what he can get but still I'm surprised no one has offered at least a solid BP arm who might be arbitration eligible for about the same much, or a prospect, or something.

 

As far as Martin wanting to catch RA, I'm sure he'll get his shot in ST and that's what he's signed for to be the big catcher and the starter. Unless he flat out can't handle it he should make starts when RA is pitching unless they DH him which alters the line up. Thole has been a black hole and at times hasn't seemed to do any better than most catching RA. You have to go with the best 25 especially coming off a season that was supposed to be promising and fell apart. If RA wants Thole catching all the time wasting the spot in the line up, he can pay for him to learn to hit, or they can both pack up and be sent somewhere else.

[jays4life19]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/jays-dickey-believes-martin-can-handle-knuckler/

 

Dickey comments on Martin catching him. Its pretty meh.

[Inklink]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/2012/12/18/new_blue_jay_ra_dickey_confident_jp_arencibia_will_catch_on_to_knuckler.html

[reedjohnsonfan]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/jays-dickey-believes-martin-can-handle-knuckler/

 

Dickey comments on Martin catching him. Its pretty meh.

 

“I’ve thrown 75 or 80 percent of my starts since 2010 to Josh Thole, and I love him like a brother, but to have a guy that can step in and do it as well is a nice commodity.”

 

All you need to know. They are going to keep Thole around, they invested quite a bit into Dickey and his personal catcher so may as well let him have what he wants. It's not like Dickey's been awful, let the veteran guy choose who his BACKUP CATCHER is. I don't see what the issue is, you're not going to get anyone much better than Thole anyways to backup.

[Orgfiller]

“I’ve thrown 75 or 80 percent of my starts since 2010 to Josh Thole, and I love him like a brother, but to have a guy that can step in and do it as well is a nice commodity.”

 

All you need to know. They are going to keep Thole around, they invested quite a bit into Dickey and his personal catcher so may as well let him have what he wants. It's not like Dickey's been awful, let the veteran guy choose who his BACKUP CATCHER is. I don't see what the issue is, you're not going to get anyone much better than Thole anyways to backup.

 

Thole is awful. Can't hit at all, doesn't really seem to be that much of a defensive wiz except he has experience with the knuckleball, and he throws like a girl. It shouldn't be that hard to find a backup catcher that isn't below replacement.

[Brownie19]

Again, Martin is going to need rest regardless. Wouldn't Martin's framing skills and game calling skills be best utilized catching the traditional pitchers? And thus wouldn't it be best to have Thole catch Dickey once every 5 days?

[L54]

Just imagine the atrocity if the Jays made the playoffs and Martin hadn't caught Dickey's knuckleball. Every Dickey start you're sitting one of your best players because Dickey loves Thole like a brother.

[Orgfiller]

Just imagine the atrocity if the Jays made the playoffs and Martin hadn't caught Dickey's knuckleball. Every Dickey start you're sitting one of your best players because Dickey loves Thole like a brother.

 

Sure, "brother".

[burlingtonbandit]

Just imagine the atrocity if the Jays made the playoffs and Martin hadn't caught Dickey's knuckleball. Every Dickey start you're sitting one of your best players because Dickey loves Thole like a brother.

 

Not as bad as you are making it sound. You would miss Martin for maybe 2 PAs since Thole would be taken out as soon as Dickey is replaced.

[Maahfaace]

Well, good luck to him.

What i'm scared of, then he will start the year bad and then everyone will say Martin had a bad year cause he had to deal with RA's balls.

 

RA doesnt want anyone near his balls......bad experiences for him

[glory]

Yeah if Dickey feels more comfortable with Thole, then keep that alignment, but have Martin catch Dickey once or twice in case of need. Wakefield had his own personal catcher, and that was during Varitek's prime. It didn't hurt Boston.

 

Trade Navarro and let Dickey have his puppet with him. No big deal either way. At least Gibbons won't overplay Thole, like he will Navarro.

[Vdubfan]

Why does dickey need to feel comfortable with a catcher? All he needs is someone who can catch it. There is no strategy or game calling for a knuckle baller. You just catch it wherever it winds up. Catching it is hard, but if Martin can do it, there's zero need for Thole.

[Brownie19]

Why does dickey need to feel comfortable with a catcher? All he needs is someone who can catch it. There is no strategy or game calling for a knuckle baller. You just catch it wherever it winds up. Catching it is hard, but if Martin can do it, there's zero need for Thole.

 

Helps to have confidence the guy is gonna catch it when you throw it...

[reedjohnsonfan]

Thole is awful. Can't hit at all, doesn't really seem to be that much of a defensive wiz except he has experience with the knuckleball, and he throws like a girl. It shouldn't be that hard to find a backup catcher that isn't below replacement.

 

So you're going to find a backup who is better but might affect Dickey's performance and morale. I don't see the point it's backup catcher, not a very important position and Thole does at least seem to handle/call the knuckleball well, which is possible but not guaranteed from another catcher.

[Dr. Dinger]

Martin is one of the premier defensive catchers in the world. I'm sure there's nothing Thole can do that he cant.

[Brownie19]

Martin is one of the premier defensive catchers in the world. I'm sure there's nothing Thole can do that he cant.

 

But he can't be expected to catch more than 120-130 games a year. His game calling and framing skills are better utilized catching traditional pitchers. Why waste him catching Dickey and then have to sit him when Buehrle throws?

[ElNik2013]

It would be ideal if the manager decided when Martin will have a day off from catching and not have to be forced into having to play Thole on days Dickey starts, especially when facing a LHP although, I think Martin has reverse splits lately. On the other hand, Martin cannot catch every game and I would think his defensive prowess would be maximized by catching conventional pitchers so why not have him catch these guys as much as possible?

 

 

Now, if they could get a good backup catcher, that would be great. However, this F/O hasn't shown a good eye for catchers so I wouldn't hold my breadth.

[GD]

But he can't be expected to catch more than 120-130 games a year. His game calling and framing skills are better utilized catching traditional pitchers. Why waste him catching Dickey and then have to sit him when Buehrle throws?

 

Buehrle is one of the easier pitchers in the league to frame. Would make sense to have him catch Dickey and stick Navarro or whoever our backup is (please not Thole) on Buehrle.

[Boxcar]

Imagine we had Syndergaard instead of Dickey right now.

 

How was that bad trade so obvious to everyone else?

[jaysfan2014]

Imagine we had Syndergaard instead of Dickey right now.

 

How was that bad trade so obvious to everyone else?

 

Jury's still out on that trade. d'Arnaud was a great pitch framer, but one of the worst defensive catchers in baseball last year, plus hasn't hit enough.. especially with Plawecki on the way in New York. And Syndegaard has yet to reach the majors.

[Deadpool]

Imagine we had Syndergaard instead of Dickey right now.

 

How was that bad trade so obvious to everyone else?

 

It was bad when it happened, it's still bad. No idea why that deal was made at all...

[jays76]

I wouldn't mind trading Dickey & Thole, I'm sure there would be interest out there given his reasonable contract and propensity for eating innings. If you could get someone to bite it could create a multitude of options- Freeing up enough salary to take a stab at Shields (if Shields was interested in coming here), perhaps getting a younger SP back in return, keeping Navarro as the backup, maybe getting a backup C in the package and still dealing Navarro, landing a 2B in a deal somehow.

 

Dickey is definitely serviceable and does eat so many innings but ultimately he was a bad match for the RC and AL East imo. He could definitely hold some higher value for another GM in the right ballpark.

[KingKat]

It was bad when it happened, it's still bad. No idea why that deal was made at all...

 

Because they were going al-in. Dickey still contributed more that year than Synder and D'Arnaud. Let's not forget that they had done the Marlins trade already. The Dickey trade was just a perfectly logical follow up to that and really when you think about it, they should have traded Sanchez too if their strategy was to go for one big push. The real mistake was adopting that strategy in the first place.

[ElNik2013]

Another thing about both the Marlins and Mets trades was that they cost the team a likely top 5 draft pick in both 2014 and 2015 as the team would've likely been pretty bad.

 

Imagine the young talent the team would have albeit with an even emptier stadium and fewer eyes watching on tv, but they'd come back once the young players would start winning ball games. Oh and the team would cost much less of course.

[Brownie19]

Buehrle is one of the easier pitchers in the league to frame. Would make sense to have him catch Dickey and stick Navarro or whoever our backup is (please not Thole) on Buehrle.

 

Buehrle needs the calls on the corners...Martin is the best bet to maximize those. That's my reasoning.

[saskjayfan]

Buehrle needs the calls on the corners...Martin is the best bet to maximize those. That's my reasoning.

 

Mark also relies on the catcher for calling a game as he almost never shakes the catcher off. There is no statistical measure for the ability to call a game, but Navarro and Buehrle did seem to have a pretty good rapport. Maybe it was a fluke, or perhaps his style of game calling matches Buehrle's skill set. Buehrle had pretty good numbers last year.

Edited January 17, 2015 by saskjayfan

[G-Snarls]

It was bad when it happened, it's still bad. No idea why that deal was made at all...

 

He was the only Cy Young winner we could afford

[Deadpool]

He was the only Cy Young winner we could afford

 

And, as we all know, it's a fantastic idea to pay for past performance for a player in his late 30s... (yes, I know knuckleballers don't age the same way, etc... but late 30s = aches and pains and other crap for everyone, not just those that rely in fastball velocity...)

[Key22]

Over three seasons Dickey led the league in quality starts percentage. AA's argument was that they need to win WHILE they have Bautista and EE on attractive contracts - if those guys were free agents at 30 years old they would like get at least $20million for 7 years (each). When they go - who exactly in our farm system at the time of the trade for Dickey was looking like a stud hitting replacement. Indeed, do we have one even now?

 

Plus not every team looks at a guy the same way. If D'Arnaud doesn't work at catcher and they have to stick him in LF what will his value be? Syndergaard may be regrettable but Kyle Drabek was hyped to the hilt back in the day with fans saying there would be no way they would trade Drabek for Halladay even straight up. Their fans were on our boards scoffing at us for even mentioning Drabek - the stud can't miss lock to be a number 2 starter (as a floor) pitcher - blah blah blah. How did that work out?

 

The fetish for prospects is what bad teams like Toronto have to cling to because there is no light on the MLB roster. But so what - we trade a stud prospect with middling hope to actually turn out and the very next year we have a draft and then replace that prospect with 10 more future studs. When the Jays traded him - some scouts were saying he'd be a reliever. We shall see - he has to at least be a number 3 and D'Arnaud has to be a major league bat. Dickey gives you 210 innings of solid number 3 starter material. No he's not an ace but the Jays didn't really feel they needed one - they figured their offense would be fine and a guy as consistent and solid as Dickey for $10million - to get his performance with a 30 year old you'd be looking at $22 million a year for more than 5 years. So you give up the talent to offset the payroll.

 

It was an all in move - it didn't work. But it didn't work because Romero went from solid number 2 to jock strap holder, Morrow who looked to be turning the corner into an absolute stud turned into a pumpkin and Johnson (who was risky) could have been the ace and got hurt. If Johnson had pitched to his stud numbers, Romero returned to form, and Morrow had indeed turned the corner and didn't get hurt - that rotation would have been dominant and we probably make the playoffs.

 

Is Syndergaard going to be a top of the rotation starter? Maybe - then again maybe he is the next Kyle Drabek.