Jays targetting Jeff Samardzija and/or Ryan Hanigan

[Dr. Dinger]

I really, really hate when people chalk the Rays success up the fact that they had some high picks.

 

It really is nonsense; they've whiffed on pretty much every 1st rounder since Price in 2007, and he was a slam dunk 1-1. Tim Beckham was a total disaster of a pick (could have been Posey, Alvarez, Hosmer). You could argue that good scouting was a major factor in their success, but it had little to do with picking early.

[TheHurl]

The Jays front office has always been in a difficult situation. Generally Toronto is a middle of the league team - typically getting the 15th overall pick. Generally elite talent is taken there - there are no Price's or Trouts to be found (generally).

 

You know Trout went 25th overall right? The baseball draft is not such a great science we know that. From 1990 to 2010 the 20th slot in the draft has produced 15 MLB players, 12 of which have had 5 year MLB careers, 7 which had 10 year MLB careers (Out of a possible 13 that's pretty unreal) and has produced 263.8 career bWAR. In comparison to the 277.6 average of the top 3 that's very comparable. It's actually ahead of the average of 233.2 of the top 5 picks and well ahead of the 190.8 of the top 10.

 

Yes I cherry picked the best low pick number. I could have chose pick 18 which has produced one all star (Dickey) and 18.2 Career bWAR but the point remains that being in the lower part of the 1st round is not an excuse for any team.

[TheHurl]

I would say that it is more due to good analytics (see Jose Molina) than good scouting. Also the right process, they have a cheap Myers for a soon expensive Shields.

 

I look back to the Delmon trade though. last place team and they traded the former #1 prospect in baseball who just came off of a season where he was 2nd in rookie of the year voting, who just drove in 93 runs. They knew what his negative defensive value and inability to take a walk meant and they turned him into Garza and Bartlett. And this trade somehow doesn't go down as one of the best in baseball...when you factor in the balls it took it's huge. 3 seasons of both Bartlett and Garza at good prices where they produced a total of 15.9 fWAR for a negative value player.

[Nox]

I look back to the Delmon trade though. last place team and they traded the former #1 prospect in baseball who just came off of a season where he was 2nd in rookie of the year voting, who just drove in 93 runs. They knew what his negative defensive value and inability to take a walk meant and they turned him into Garza and Bartlett. And this trade somehow doesn't go down as one of the best in baseball...when you factor in the balls it took it's huge. 3 seasons of both Bartlett and Garza at good prices where they produced a total of 15.9 fWAR for a negative value player.

 

+1. This was probably Friedman's best transaction.

[admin]

They've collected ridiculous value from players AA just tossed aside.

 

Quite a few teams have!

We're helping rebuild the Mets and the Marlins, and helping keep the Rays up top lol.

[saskjayfan]

You know Trout went 25th overall right? The baseball draft is not such a great science we know that. From 1990 to 2010 the 20th slot in the draft has produced 15 MLB players, 12 of which have had 5 year MLB careers, 7 which had 10 year MLB careers (Out of a possible 13 that's pretty unreal) and has produced 263.8 career bWAR. In comparison to the 277.6 average of the top 3 that's very comparable. It's actually ahead of the average of 233.2 of the top 5 picks and well ahead of the 190.8 of the top 10.

 

Yes I cherry picked the best low pick number. I could have chose pick 18 which has produced one all star (Dickey) and 18.2 Career bWAR but the point remains that being in the lower part of the 1st round is not an excuse for any team.

 

The Rays are no doubt one of the best run organizations in baseball...along with the athletics....but an often overlooked element in professional sports is just dumb luck....each team has probably had a bit of luck along the way...but still have ran very quality franchises.

[Key22]

Okay if the solution is that the Rays are better managed then pay their entire front office, on field coaching staff, manager and scouting staff - 5 times their current salary to walk in and and replace our lot.

 

Pujols went something like 402nd overall. The draft and knowing which minor leaguers will turn out seems to be a total guess. Surely, with all the video, scouts, number crunchers and deep analysis they can figure out who is a can't miss and who is a future no hope hack. I mean Travis Snider was the 7th best prospect in the game - Jesus Montero was ranked 1 or 2. It amazes me they can be so so far off the mark. Last year they were saying Syndergaard was likely a future middle reliever - then 4th starter and now possible ace.

 

Tampa has gotten pitching - it's that simple - pitching wins. The 5 NL teams that made the playoffs led the league in ERA - took up spots 1-5. In the AL it was 5 out of the top 7 with the best team ERA.

 

If the Jays can have a top three team ERA with their offense it SHOULD be enough to make the playoffs - even if they have gaping holes at catcher and second base. PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING.

 

Romero melting down and Morrow and Johnson injured for most of the year didn't help. Depth is all well and good but few teams have Cy Young caliber pitchers waiting in AAA for call-ups.

 

The Jays should throw everything at the kitchen sink to get Tanaka and Jiminez - not because the latter is a stud or the former is going to be Yu Darvish - but they need 5 pitchers - they need to get a top 3-4 ERA - the Pen looks solid - they have depth with injured pitchers back.

 

Basically they need a bunch of promising bodies to fit around Dickey and Beurhle. Guys who can toss 6-8 innings of 3-4 runs and just be decent consistently. Get a decent catcher who can actually catch and call games and we have a chance.

[z3r0s]

Last year they were saying Syndergaard was likely a future middle reliever - then 4th starter and now possible ace.

 

Who was saying that? All I remember is people questioning if the secondary stuff would develop enough to make him a top of the rotation guy.

[Boxcar]

I really, really hate when people chalk the Rays success up the fact that they had some high picks. Six consecutive 0.500+ seasons. Five 90+ seasons in that stretch. Four playoff births. A bottom-10 payroll every year of that stretch. They win because they have the best front office in baseball.

 

For someone who could write a wall of text about what he ate for breakfast, he makes a lot of intellectually lazy assumptions.

[KingKat]

Who was saying that? All I remember is people questioning if the secondary stuff would develop enough to make him a top of the rotation guy.

 

Basically Keith Law and only Keith Law was saying Syndergaard might only be a reliever while practically every other prospect writer thought Syndergaard was better than Sanchez.

[Orgfiller]

I really, really hate when people chalk the Rays success up the fact that they had some high picks. Six consecutive 0.500+ seasons. Five 90+ seasons in that stretch. Four playoff births. A bottom-10 payroll every year of that stretch. They win because they have the best front office in baseball.

 

Like someone else mentioned in another thread, this isn't basketball, even if you get a guaranteed no-brainer once in a generation player with your your first pick A LOT could go wrong, just look at the Nationals, one year Strasburg, another Harper, and then another Rendon, those three players don't make a team in baseball, nothing is ever certain that they will live up to potential, plus you add in the additional high injury risk for pitchers (as did happen with Strasburg) and really a high pick is not really any different from a middle-of-the-round quality pick, and obviously the Rays have good scouts, which is another reason why their FO is at the top of the league.

[KSaw]

Dickey was pretty solid on the road last year and his second half home numbers were pretty good. Don't be shocked if he is a top 5 statistical starter in the AL next year. The guy is a smart student of the game and a gritty gamer.

[kcjaysfan]

We're gonna need a bigger boat.

[Jays]

We're gonna need a bigger boat.

 

With AA saying he's not optimistic in getting any FA starters.... buh bye Sanchez.

[ace3113]

K to the LAW on Jays/Sharky:

 

Theo (Chicago)

 

If I trade Jeff Samardzija to the Jays, can I get Aaron Sanchez and Marcus Stroman in return or am I asking for too much?

 

Klaw (12:45 PM)

 

No. One, not both.

 

Terry (Canada)

How in love would you say a fan base is of their own players/prospects? I've seen Cubs fans irate if they don't get a clubs top couple of prospects for Shark. Just really opened my eyes to team bias/lunacy..

 

Klaw (12:52 PM)

Every fan base overrates its own prospects. But what kills me is when a prospect changes orgs, and the sentiment turns on a dime.

 

[Angrioter]

Cubs have offered Samardzija five-years, $55M - Jeff Samardzija

[Anemic0ffense]

That's a team friendly deal lol.

 

Yeah. He's a goner. Prospect geeks brace yourself... AA is gonna get this guy, and your man crushes will be going the other way.

[Angrioter]

That's a team friendly deal lol.

 

Ejak 4Ys/52M

subliminal message to Shark ----------> "You'll be trade"

[Angrioter]

It seems like Shark is open to an extension, which would be a great thing for the Blue Jays. Lock him up at whatever he wants within reason.

 

Here we go again...... Sanchez + Nolin + Tirado for Shark + 5Ys/65M

[jaysblue]

We're gonna need a bigger boat.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gciFoEbOA8

[Angrioter]

Samardzija rejected a five-year, $55 million contract.

[kcjaysfan]

I can't believe that people are okay with giving up assets plus 5 year contract for shark when Garza can be had just from a contract

 

Why why why trade more prospects!!!

 

AA needs to man up and sign some FA and if he can't do it then tell his fat butt to sit down sick and tired of these deals that being in players other teams dont want

 

Perhaps Garza has no interest in signing here.

[connorp]

Samardjiza had the second best xxFIP in 2012, behind R.A. Dickey. Samardjiza was 28th in 2013.

 

Yeah I really think people on here underestimate him. Barring injury his floor seems to be solid mid-rotation guy..but with legit front-line potential. If jays can get him on an extension, even one more year plus option even.. I would do Sanchez + in a millisecond

[Chappy]

Yeah I really think people on here underestimate him. Barring injury his floor seems to be solid mid-rotation guy..but with legit front-line potential. If jays can get him on an extension, even one more year plus option even.. I would do Sanchez + in a millisecond

 

Yup, Shark is a very good pitcher. With an extension, I don't think twice about dealing Sanchez.

[Sammy225]

Yup, Shark is a very good pitcher. With an extension, I don't think twice about dealing Sanchez.

 

Exactly. Same kind of a deal as Dickey. Give us a window to negotiate and you can have Sanchez. I have no issues with that.

[G-Snarls]

K to the LAW on Jays/Sharky:

 

Fantastic comments. He is vry smrt.

[Chappy]

Exactly. Same kind of a deal as Dickey. Give us a window to negotiate and you can have Sanchez. I have no issues with that.

 

Honestly, if AA can extend Shark if a deal does happen, then that's not a bad way to help transition this team into one built around longer term success. shark is in his prime years and a 5 year deal would be the best of his career. This is exactly the type of trade targets AA should be focusing on if he intends to go that route.

 

Not to mention the fact that in two years this team will have virtually no commitments other than Reyes. The financial flexibility is there to fix a lot that went wrong. Just don't deal Stroman, he is ready now and 6 years of control is great.

Lock up Rasmus long term as well and go from there.

[Chappy]

Dickey

Samardjiza (beast following Dickey)

Buehrle

Morrow

Stoman

 

That is a fine rotation. Likely Stroman isn't part of that rotation to start the season, but once injuries hit he will be up.

[G-Snarls]

That is a fine rotation. Likely Stroman isn't part of that rotation to start the season, but once injuries hit he will be up.

 

So we may as well scratch "Morrow" from the list then?

 

They probably aren't in the rotation at the same time

[G-Snarls]

Oh, no wait... Brandon Morrow says he's NOT injury prone

 

So nevermind... my bad

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/health-criticism-frustrating-jays-morrow/