Jays targetting Jeff Samardzija and/or Ryan Hanigan

[GeorgiaPeach]

There were a lot of posters on here fapping about how Dickey was an ace and one of the best pitchers in baseball last offseason.

 

That's what happens when you got a chunk of hardware you're lugging around.

 

And to think Esteban Loaiza was the runner up to a CY. Ace......right there......bwahahahaha

[GeorgiaPeach]

You need to do better research. Knuckleballers last longer. Phil Neikro pitched effectively until age 47, and was 5th in Cy Young voting at age 43.

Nolan Ryan depended on velocity. If you are going to start comparing people at least make some attempt to be relevant. Otherwise, you are just

another complainer on here. So he's 4 years younger then Phil was on a great season. I suppose you need to look up Charlie Hough and Tim Wakefield

too, I haven't looked to see how old they were when they hit the wall but that's where you need to start. Rickey Henderson ? What the heck does a

base stealing outfielder have to do with a knuckleball pitcher ?

 

I can see you when Phil Neikro was 39. "the man is 40 ... close to 40. You might get one ok year out of him now". Eight years later he's still a solid back of the rotation starter, four years later he was an ace on his team.

 

I don't need to do any more research. I'm well aware of knuckleball pitchers pitching into their 40's. I'm not a fan of old players making close to 10% of the teams payroll. The team should've followed the TB plan and added 80+ million in overpaying for free agents on top of the team the Rays puts on the field for 60-70 mil.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Incredibly sad you are that old and more immature then most 8 year olds.

 

I'd rather talk baseball and anything else in life with Spanky than 99.9+% of the f***ing retards that populate the Rogers Centre on a nightly basis.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Fck I hope d'Arnaud and N.S flop!

 

Why?

[The Cats Ass]

I don't need to do any more research. I'm well aware of knuckleball pitchers pitching into their 40's. I'm not a fan of old players making close to 10% of the teams payroll. The team should've followed the TB plan and added 80+ million in overpaying for free agents on top of the team the Rays puts on the field for 60-70 mil.

 

Just imagine what the Rays could do with another 80Mil. WS favourites every year.

 

If you were the Rays and could increase payroll by 80Mil, what would you have done this offseason?

[KingKat]

Just imagine what the Rays could do with another 80Mil. WS favourites every year.

 

If you were the Rays and could increase payroll by 80Mil, what would you have done this offseason?

 

I would have probably signed McCann.

[The Cats Ass]

I would have probably signed McCann.

 

I think so too. Along with maybe Choo. And Abreu.

[saskjayfan]

Thanks mate, and the feeling is mutual.

 

you two should get a room...

[GeorgiaPeach]

Just imagine what the Rays could do with another 80Mil. WS favourites every year.

 

If you were the Rays and could increase payroll by 80Mil, what would you have done this offseason?

 

Its not really a fair question, almost a trick question. You're asking me to add 80mil to their payroll over the course of one off season, using a weak FA year. And the fact I like value moves, and extracting value from their assets, which they do, makes it tough to reverse moves they've made or are going to make.

[KingKat]

Get a room you f***ing Felines!!!!

 

Hiss! Hiss!

[SAAviour]

Just imagine what the Rays could do with another 80Mil. WS favourites every year.

 

If you were the Rays and could increase payroll by 80Mil, what would you have done this offseason?

 

I think an extra 80 mil would mess with the rays way of doing things and they would turn into a team that overpays for veterans and holds onto guys too long rather than smartly trading them at their peak...I think they'd be us.

[ElNik2013]

I think an extra 80 mil would mess with the rays way of doing things and they would turn into a team that overpays for veterans and holds onto guys too long rather than smartly trading them at their peak...I think they'd be us.

 

 

I think they'd spend some of the 80 mil and take the rest as profit, just like a well-run company that outsmarts its competition and makes a bigger profit.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I think they'd spend some of the 80 mil and take the rest as profit, just like a well-run company that outsmarts its competition and makes a bigger profit.

 

The funny thing is the fans would complain that all the profits should be put back into the team to make it better.....even though "its not their money"

[Boxcar]

Incredibly sad you are that old and more immature then most 8 year olds.

 

People who complain about being bullied while instigating unnecessarily are a special kind of stupid.

[Boxcar]

I think an extra 80 mil would mess with the rays way of doing things and they would turn into a team that overpays for veterans and holds onto guys too long rather than smartly trading them at their peak...I think they'd be us.

 

You think...the RAYS would be just like the JAYS given equal payroll.

 

I mean, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but that's so bizarre and honestly pretty dumb that I'm not sure what you know that would lead you to that conclusion. The teams operate on the opposite spectrums of new school and old school.

[Abomination]

The teams operate on the opposite spectrums of new school and old school.

 

The question we should be asking is whether they do so because of underlying philosophy or necessity. I'm not sure history suggests this to be likely, as we've seen a number of GM candidates move to other teams that were supposed to bring these schools of thought and never seemed to follow through. The one organization I would be comfortable in saying that they are different is the Cards.

[SAAviour]

You think...the RAYS would be just like the JAYS given equal payroll.

 

I mean, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but that's so bizarre and honestly pretty dumb that I'm not sure what you know that would lead you to that conclusion. The teams operate on the opposite spectrums of new school and old school.

 

Well I didn't put a lot of thought into the statement to be honest, just a random thought but I do wonder what would happen. Would they give into their tiny fan base and have resigned guys like Crawford and uptown and shields, paying about 50-60 million of the 80 to those 3 alone.

[Boxcar]

Well I didn't put a lot of thought into the statement to be honest, just a random thought but I do wonder what would happen. Would they give into their tiny fan base and have resigned guys like Crawford and uptown and shields, paying about 50-60 million of the 80 to those 3 alone.

 

They would still be signing deals where they project to receive surplus value, they'd just be able to sign better players. I would put my life on the fact that the Rays would never turn to a set of subjective number grades to evaluate possible acquisitions.

[kgm1]

The Rays front office works well because it's run by smart people who employ other smart people. They aren't just going to stop making good decisions in the event of a payroll bump.

 

I was one of many who thought that about the Toronto front Office . While I still believe AA was pushed into a move It is obvious He crashed and burned on every trade and now is probably desperate. Desperate GM,s don't usually make smart moves .

 

WTF happened to the "" we will make moves and add payroll when the team is competative Motto """

[DuckDuckGose]

I was one of many who thought that about the Toronto front Office . While I still believe AA was pushed into a move It is obvious He crashed and burned on every trade and now is probably desperate. Desperate GM,s don't usually make smart moves .

 

WTF happened to the "" we will make moves and add payroll when the team is competative Motto """

 

He didn't crash on the Rasmus, Morrow, Escobar, Delabar, and Lincoln trades. All were clear wins for Toronto. The Dickey and Happ trades will take years to clarify a winner. The Marlins trade was bad but that doesn't mean every trade AA has made has been bad.

Edited December 1, 2013 by DuckDuckGose
autocorrect is the skid mark on the underpants of typing

[kgm1]

He didn't crash on the Rasmus, Morrow, Escobar, Delabar, and Lincoln trades. AllWe're clear wins for Toronto. The Dickey and Happ trades will take years to claridy a winner. The Marlins trade was bad but that doesn't mean every trade AA has made has been bad.

 

My Mistake , Crashed and burned on every trade he made last year once he got the money . We were discussing whether the Rays would crash with money like the Jays did .

[Smokey]

I was one of many who thought that about the Toronto front Office . While I still believe AA was pushed into a move It is obvious He crashed and burned on every trade and now is probably desperate. Desperate GM,s don't usually make smart moves .

 

WTF happened to the "" we will make moves and add payroll when the team is competative Motto """

 

 

But it was "the perfect storm", remember?

 

Seriously though, I do agree that AA was pushed into some of the moves but his complete incompetence in evaluating talent, as well as failing to give the team the much needed push the previous offseason are all on his shoulders.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Smokey

[GeorgiaPeach]

Its Christmas season don't you have extended hours mall cop

 

Nope. I think I work only 7 or 8 days this month. The joys of carrying over vacation time from 2012.

[G-Snarls]

He didn't crash on the Rasmus, Morrow, Escobar, Delabar, and Lincoln trades. All were clear wins for Toronto. The Dickey and Happ trades will take years to clarify a winner. The Marlins trade was bad but that doesn't mean every trade AA has made has been bad.

 

Also, a trade going badly doesn't always mean it was the wrong thing to do at the time. And vice versa. There is *some* luck involved.

 

But it's like everything else of course - the smart GM will get more trades right than wrong.

[kgm1]

Also, a trade going badly doesn't always mean it was the wrong thing to do at the time. And vice versa. There is *some* luck involved.

 

But it's like everything else of course - the smart GM will get more trades right than wrong.

 

I tried to buy into the gutting of the minors because there was SFA i could do about it ""Eating the Cake thread " but lets face the facts . WE have a lame duck GM desperate to at least get to the playoffs who has doubled the budget and gutted the minors and has nothing left to do but " Hope and Pray "

 

I question whether adding Hanigan and Samadzija gets us there . I do however know the cost will be brutal . The one bright spot is that Middle relievers and setup guys are really getting pricey . If Cincy is determined to move Chapman to the Rotation then they need a closer

[DuckDuckGose]

My Mistake , Crashed and burned on every trade he made last year once he got the money . We were discussing whether the Rays would crash with money like the Jays did .

 

I rfeally don't think the Dickey trade crashed and burned. It's not his fault AA overpaid (he only paid him $13M per season, I have no idea why he threw assets like he was a $25M MVP-type guy -- I'd like to think d'Arnaud + Syndergaard + a couple assets like Nolin and Happ might land us Tulo right now. He pitched hurt and still managed to log +220IP despite pitching poorly and made some positive adjustments towards the end of the season. I'd go as far to say that Dickey and Buehrle were the only two positive moves Alex made last off-season.

[DuckDuckGose]

For me the front office's failings run a lot deeper than two bad (catastrophic?) trades. I don't believe that the guys in charge know how to properly evaluate what a given player actually contributes to a team. We've seen it time and time again: Cordero, Happ, Napoli for Frank, Thames starting LF, punting of Escobar, Lind not used in a platoon for 3 years, Vizquel, DeRosa etc... They remind me of the Royals in that sense.

 

IMO his value is spot on and I think the Jays hjave a few club friendky deals because of it. That being said it would be impossible to argue that The Jays are even league average at evaluating MLB talent. Hopefully they learned and figure out a way to get back on track this off-season.

[DuckDuckGose]

Also, a trade going badly doesn't always mean it was the wrong thing to do at the time. And vice versa. There is *some* luck involved.

 

But it's like everything else of course - the smart GM will get more trades right than wrong.

 

AA overpaid for Dickey, it was quite obvious at the time. As you said there was some bad luck this season and the WBC certainly didn't help either. I expect them to be better next season but without a few additions I don't view the Jays as serious playoff threat.

[Key22]

The Jays front office has always been in a difficult situation. Generally Toronto is a middle of the league team - typically getting the 15th overall pick. Generally elite talent is taken there - there are no Price's or Trouts to be found (generally). It's more or less hit or miss. When you finish dead last for 10 straight years like the Rays you get top 3 picks every single year for a decade. And since they were dead last every single year there was never a motivation to trade minor league talent because they were never in any sort of a run to the post-season. So they kept EVERY player and basically fielded teams of stand in dregs to hold the fort until the kids were ready.

 

Toronto never had the prospects and they kept finishing third in the division - they had and still have good Major league pieces that other teams would covet - Halladay, Delgado, Encarnacion, Bautista etc. They field teams that make you think they're pretty close. And the Jays have money so they add pieces and hold onto pieces they probably should move.

 

Tampa has no money - they tell their fans. Everyone knows - so when the impact player they have is close to free agency they trade the guy for 3-5 prospects usually getting 1-2 back that help the team. The cycle is refreshed with a new impact player under control for 3-6 years on the cheap.

 

If the Jays can finish last for the next 10 years we could have 10 first overall picks and if we trade all the players on our team over the age of 27 we could probably get to the point where we would have BY FAR the best farm system in all of baseball within 3 years. We should be able to get 1 top 50 prospect each for Rasmus, Bautista, Encanacion, Reyes. So that would be 4 top 50 prospects plus 3 first overall picks for finishing last for the next three seasons - assuming we choose well that would be 7 of the top 50 prospects in the game added to our system where I am sure we could scrounge up 2-3 very good ones. SO say 10 really good prospects at elite or borderline elite level.

 

Then it will take about 3-4 years to develop the players. So if we started now by dumping the entire team for prospects and deliberately throw games to finish dead last - hire Buck Martinez to manage. Make JPA the number 3 hitter. Let Romero be the ace and promise him 100 pitches per start no matter the score. Then sign 4 scrubs that the Astros release to slot in 2-5. Spend no more than $25 million payroll. Hoard the money for 2020. $125 million banked for 5 seasons is $625 million +$150M payroll for the 2019 and 2020 seasons the Jays would have $925million to spend on free agents (posting fees etc) - then in 2020 with the A-list farm system and nearly a billion for payroll the Jays could double the asking prices of all free agents at the time - bring in the best 5 free agents each year for two years - 10 players added to the 10 studs we developed and AA will look great. But you gotta wait 6 more years and we have to finish dead last. If a manager finishes with more than 50 wins he should be fired for competency.

[GD]

If the Jays can finish last for the next 10 years we could have 10 first overall picks and if we trade all the players on our team over the age of 27 we could probably get to the point where we would have BY FAR the best farm system in all of baseball within 3 years. We should be able to get 1 top 50 prospect each for Rasmus, Bautista, Encanacion, Reyes. So that would be 4 top 50 prospects plus 3 first overall picks for finishing last for the next three seasons - assuming we choose well that would be 7 of the top 50 prospects in the game added to our system where I am sure we could scrounge up 2-3 very good ones. SO say 10 really good prospects at elite or borderline elite level.

 

Then it will take about 3-4 years to develop the players. So if we started now by dumping the entire team for prospects and deliberately throw games to finish dead last - hire Buck Martinez to manage. Make JPA the number 3 hitter. Let Romero be the ace and promise him 100 pitches per start no matter the score. Then sign 4 scrubs that the Astros release to slot in 2-5. Spend no more than $25 million payroll. Hoard the money for 2020. $125 million banked for 5 seasons is $625 million +$150M payroll for the 2019 and 2020 seasons the Jays would have $925million to spend on free agents (posting fees etc) - then in 2020 with the A-list farm system and nearly a billion for payroll the Jays could double the asking prices of all free agents at the time - bring in the best 5 free agents each year for two years - 10 players added to the 10 studs we developed and AA will look great. But you gotta wait 6 more years and we have to finish dead last. If a manager finishes with more than 50 wins he should be fired for competency.

 

This is so sadistic, masochistic and insane that it might just work.