Jays targetting Jeff Samardzija and/or Ryan Hanigan

[GNick]

I'd take a younger arm like Samardzija over Dickey any day of the week. I didn't expect Dickey to come anywhere close to repeating his success as an NL Cy Young winner especially pitching in the AL East.

 

Team control isn't there on Shark

[Angrioter]

I'd take a younger arm like Samardzija over Dickey any day of the week. I didn't expect Dickey to come anywhere close to repeating his success as an NL Cy Young winner especially pitching in the AL East.

 

Dickey is a sui generis case, his age isn't so important.

[Laika]

I'd take a younger arm like Samardzija over Dickey any day of the week. I didn't expect Dickey to come anywhere close to repeating his success as an NL Cy Young winner especially pitching in the AL East.

 

If you mean Dickey today, then sure. Maybe that's fair.

 

If you mean Dickey from pre-2013, then you're insane.

 

Even right now, I'd probably prefer the next 2 years from Dickey over the next 2 from Smurf_DJ_zinga. Dickey quietly came back huge in the second half, his velocity came back and so did his run prevention skills. He might be 39 but he's not on the same trajectory as most pitchers. RA can probably pitch into his mid 40's if he feels like it.

[Angrioter]

If you mean Dickey today, then sure. Maybe that's fair.

 

If you mean Dickey from pre-2013, then you're insane.

 

Even right now, I'd probably prefer the next 2 years from Dickey over the next 2 from Smurf_DJ_zinga. Dickey quietly came back huge in the second half, his velocity came back and so did his run prevention skills. He might be 39 but he's not on the same trajectory as most pitchers. RA can probably pitch into his mid 40's if he feels like it.

 

We're talking about of a pitcher with the best pitch in years.

[Olerud363]

I wouldn't have given up our top prospects for Dickey. When I heard names like d'Arnaud and Syndergaard were even in play I laughed and said it will never happen. A guy like Latos I would have been fine with but the Dickey trade never made any sense to me.

 

Samardzija is at best a #3 and has only pitched 200 innings once and that was last year where most of his numbers took a step back. No way should Sanchez and Stroman be even linked to a guy like that. I don't even see a guy like Samardzija helping us that much. No way would he be worth the asking price.

 

Hutchison and Drabek (assuming health) and even Cecil look as good if not better then Samardzija did 2 years ago... 2 years ago Samardzija was a failed starter with bad minor leage numbers and 5 walks per 9 as a releiver.

 

Out of Hutchison, Drabek, and Cecil there should be a Samardzija. Out of Nolin, Stroman and Sanchez there should be another good starter. Out of Nicolina, Synd, Woj, Henderson Alvarez, there could be more depth and possibly an ace. Ooopsss...

[Olerud363]

If you mean Dickey today, then sure. Maybe that's fair.

 

If you mean Dickey from pre-2013, then you're insane.

 

Even right now, I'd probably prefer the next 2 years from Dickey over the next 2 from Smurf_DJ_zinga. Dickey quietly came back huge in the second half, his velocity came back and so did his run prevention skills. He might be 39 but he's not on the same trajectory as most pitchers. RA can probably pitch into his mid 40's if he feels like it.

 

I tend to agree with you. I'd rather just of kept all the young pictchers and sorted through them, there is an ace and a Samardzija in there somewhere. But Samardzija over Dickey?? Even though Samardzija is 10 years younger, Samardzija's numbers last year were the same as Dickey's... Samar was viewed as doing well, while Dickey's 200 innings of 4.something were viewed as a disaster.

[kgm1]

Meh , I have resigned myself to the fact that Sanchez or Stroman or both plus lower level assets are gone this year for a 3 type pitcher with little control left and we will have Goins at 2nd JPA behind the plate and Melky in left . Even adding a Kershaw couldn't win enough to take us to the top with that lineup . We won't be able to afford to extend Rasmus and AA will hang on to aging assets till he is gone all because Rogers needed the boost in Ratings with a hockey strike looming. Those trades are just hitting me hard right now

 

All we have left is Hurl,s "" Hope and Pray ""

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

I'd take a younger arm like Samardzija over Dickey any day of the week. I didn't expect Dickey to come anywhere close to repeating his success as an NL Cy Young winner especially pitching in the AL East.

 

This is just not logical thinking, it's based purely on emotion. Dickey is a proven quality pitcher and history shows clearly that knuckeleballers can be extremely good at a much older age then most pitchers ( see Phil Neikro, Tim Wakefield, ... ). Samardzija has done NOTHING so far to show he can be a quality pitcher with a higher ceiling. There is no evidance that Dickey has arm issues or health issues that could indicate he's nearing the end of his career yet.

 

I'd bet you straight up that Dickey is better then Samardzija in 2014. Possibly by a wide margin. And your idea that Dickey can't compete in the AL East is ignoring the fact that even in his "bad year" he competed well in the last half of the season. Samardzija might be ok, or he might simply be like many average looking National League pitchers who come over to the American League and get absolutely shelled. Josh Johnson for example had a lot of troubles, Matt Garza seemed ineffective in Texas last year. Ryan Dempster started ok but is that a good season ? And those pitchers had more credibility coming into the American League then Samardzija has at this point, none would have necessarily be classified as average. Anybody who claims Samardzija is better then average is projecting a hope he will improve next season, and with any such projection comes big risk in our park and division.

 

I'd much rather have Dickey for 2014 and 2015, with the idea that after that I'm ok if he's worth zero after that.

[Chappy]

Meh , I have resigned myself to the fact that Sanchez or Stroman or both plus lower level assets are gone this year for a 3 type pitcher with little control left and we will have Goins at 2nd JPA behind the plate and Melky in left . Even adding a Kershaw couldn't win enough to take us to the top with that lineup . We won't be able to afford to extend Rasmus and AA will hang on to aging assets till he is gone all because Rogers needed the boost in Ratings with a hockey strike looming. Those trades are just hitting me hard right now

 

All we have left is Hurl,s "" Hope and Pray ""

 

Why wouldn't we be able to extend Rasmus?

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

Meh , I have resigned myself to the fact that Sanchez or Stroman or both plus lower level assets are gone this year for a 3 type pitcher with little control left and we will have Goins at 2nd JPA behind the plate and Melky in left . Even adding a Kershaw couldn't win enough to take us to the top with that lineup . We won't be able to afford to extend Rasmus and AA will hang on to aging assets till he is gone all because Rogers needed the boost in Ratings with a hockey strike looming. Those trades are just hitting me hard right now

 

All we have left is Hurl,s "" Hope and Pray ""

 

This is just overanalysis with very little reality to it. In fact, except for the two trades before 2013, the Jays tend to do less moves then is required not more. The Jays are far better then you think, its highly unlikely they trade their stud pitching prospects. The free agent market isn't great for pitching but its ok for hitters, so even if the Jays only add one good hitter ( and do nothing else ), they are a much better team next season. Money is not a factor we are well below the luxury tax.

 

Basically we lost a really bad Josh Johnson, a really bad Bonofocio, and JPA at a minimum loses his starting job. We add the potential for Reyes and Lawrie playing more this year, Stroman looks ready to pitch in the majors now, and if Hutch/Morrow/Happ contrbute anything its an improvement. Dickey is likely better in 2014. Note that all these points require NO players to be added, anything we can do to improve our club is in addition to these points.

 

So, to be quite blunt, I can't see any way the Jays will be worse next year. They'll either be the same or more likely much better. How much better depends on several things. But the idea that AA will make some absurdly stupid trades because people on this forum have talked our players value down is kind of like a drug induced delusion from spending too much time overanalyzing the team.

[jaysblue]

This is just not logical thinking, it's based purely on emotion. Dickey is a proven quality pitcher and history shows clearly that knuckeleballers can be extremely good at a much older age then most pitchers ( see Phil Neikro, Tim Wakefield, ... ). Samardzija has done NOTHING so far to show he can be a quality pitcher with a higher ceiling. There is no evidance that Dickey has arm issues or health issues that could indicate he's nearing the end of his career yet.

 

I'd bet you straight up that Dickey is better then Samardzija in 2014. Possibly by a wide margin. And your idea that Dickey can't compete in the AL East is ignoring the fact that even in his "bad year" he competed well in the last half of the season. Samardzija might be ok, or he might simply be like many average looking National League pitchers who come over to the American League and get absolutely shelled. Josh Johnson for example had a lot of troubles, Matt Garza seemed ineffective in Texas last year. Ryan Dempster started ok but is that a good season ? And those pitchers had more credibility coming into the American League then Samardzija has at this point, none would have necessarily be classified as average. Anybody who claims Samardzija is better then average is projecting a hope he will improve next season, and with any such projection comes big risk in our park and division.

 

I'd much rather have Dickey for 2014 and 2015, with the idea that after that I'm ok if he's worth zero after that.

 

Purely on emotion?

 

I'm a pretty logical and very rational thinker when it comes to discussing baseball. I like Dickey and don't get me wrong I still think he'll provide value over the next two seasons if healthy. He's no ace as he was advertised or what people believed last season. I view him more as a very solid No. 3, borderline No. 2 starter. I was impressed by his strong second half, so I think he's adjusted to the AL just fine. Though he's not pitching half of his games at Citi Field anymore, and that definitely showed this season with the alarming HR rate.

 

As for Samardzjia, I prefer younger arms with upside over 40-year-olds, just my opinion. Samardzija is a very good pitcher, his stuff is electric. He did have 214 K's this season which is quite impressive and nothing to sneeze at. Taken that he's just entering his prime, and the room for potential growth I'd prefer Samardzija. That's just my opinion. I think you're irrational for saying Samardzija is just average.

[jaysblue]

I tend to agree with you. I'd rather just of kept all the young pictchers and sorted through them, there is an ace and a Samardzija in there somewhere. But Samardzija over Dickey?? Even though Samardzija is 10 years younger, Samardzija's numbers last year were the same as Dickey's... Samar was viewed as doing well, while Dickey's 200 innings of 4.something were viewed as a disaster.

 

I never viewed Dickey's season as a disaster. I think he's a solid piece in the rotation, though he's no ace as many posters on here thought he would be after the Jays acquired him last offseason. I just prefer younger arms with upside - my own personal opinion.

[jaysblue]

If you mean Dickey today, then sure. Maybe that's fair.

 

If you mean Dickey from pre-2013, then you're insane.

 

Even right now, I'd probably prefer the next 2 years from Dickey over the next 2 from Smurf_DJ_zinga. Dickey quietly came back huge in the second half, his velocity came back and so did his run prevention skills. He might be 39 but he's not on the same trajectory as most pitchers. RA can probably pitch into his mid 40's if he feels like it.

 

Insane? I never thought he'd come close to repeating the success he had in 2012 moving from Citi Field to the Rogers Centre and AL East. People who expected that were insane. Not saying Dickey has been a disaster - far from it. He's still a solid pitcher and has proven durable which is what I love about him. His strong second half was very promising and I expect him to provide great value over the next two seasons still. I just prefer younger arms - my own personal opinion. Samardzija is not that bad as many people are making him out to be - I find it irrational how people think he's just average. I'd feel comfortable in saying Samardzija likely would be the Jays best pitcher if they went out & acquired him.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

How, how, how many times does this have to be explained to you!? My god.

 

How many times does this have to be explained to you ? It's kind of funny how sure you are about things and you have followed baseball for almost no time at all. The chances that Stroman get traded are almost zero, it would have to be an incredible deal to happen, the guy may be ready to make the big team already. Sanchez isn't as good ( yet ? ) so I could see some chance he got moved but again, I have my doubts the team will do so given how many prospects they traded before last season.

 

But come April we'll revisit this, and you can post a few more dozen times for AA to "do something".

[kgm1]

<<>>>

 

Where did I say they would be a worse team . This team as it stands with health is an 82 to 85 win team . that doesn't get you to the playoffs . Adding a 2 war pitcher doesn,t sniff the wildcard .

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

<<>>>

 

Where did I say they would be a worse team . This team as it stands with health is an 82 to 85 win team . that doesn't get you to the playoffs . Adding a 2 war pitcher doesn,t sniff the wildcard .

 

Read your posts, you keep suggesting the Jays will make absurd moves for some reason in a desperate attempt to compete. I see no evidence the Jays feel desperate or even that they'll make many moves at all. They are content to give Stroman a job until he loses it, let Goins play defence, play Bautista on his great contract until its done, and MAYBE ( we'll see ) they'll sign a big free agent or two to improve the team but only if the right guy says yes.

 

The need to move top prospects, the budget constraints, the attraction to pretty average National League pitchers is all general pumped up hysteria on this forum. So far the Jays did NOTHING. Most years the Jays are not prolific at all, they make a big splash every few years then very little. And baseball being what it is, the players that we added last year have enough talent that there is no way in hell you can know for sure what their ceiling is next season. You might think you know, but you don't. Nobody does. Teams can have huge changes in success in one year, and the reasons are often not clear ( luck is a part ).

 

I do think the Jays likely can't compete well without one big addition. It doesn't have to be a pitcher. Still guys out there.

[GNick]

I doubt Jays get Shark...been on-line for a few weeks and nothing has happened.

[vic city]

Here's a new article on the potential Shark trade.

 

 

Toronto Blue Jays Rumors: Could Interest In Jeff Samardzija Be Expanded To Include Starlin Castro?

 

http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/11/29/toronto-blue-jays-rumors-could-interest-in-jeff-samardzija-expand-to-include-starlin-castro/?5ihpufzxCWU6IuVu.99

[bbb44]

Here's a new article on the potential Shark trade.

 

 

Toronto Blue Jays Rumors: Could Interest In Jeff Samardzija Be Expanded To Include Starlin Castro?

 

http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/11/29/toronto-blue-jays-rumors-could-interest-in-jeff-samardzija-expand-to-include-starlin-castro/?5ihpufzxCWU6IuVu.99

Baustista and Sanchez is a steep price to pay for Shark and Castro in my opinion .

 

Castro would be nice but not necessary while Bautista is more valuable to us right now

[GeorgiaPeach]

Probably a good bet BUT teams can't just keep trading off their pitching prospects . Vargas went for 4years at 8 mil so the cost of a 5th starter is about 8 mil .Unless you have a Dodger budget you have to have so many in the pipeline because of the bust rate . When you trade off one or two and guess wrong , "" Alvarez and Syndergaard "" your f***ed . Free agent cost of a playoff rotation is what 85 million ? Developing starters is key and the Jays were on their way and f***ed it up

 

Imagine, we could be trudging down the same path as the Tigers without the budget. Sub in Paul Beeston for Illitch and in a year or two we'll have the same situation. No farm, a bloated payroll, aged team. And when Illitch & Beeston are gone, things will definitely be different and there'll be a dry spell for atleast a half decade for both teams.

 

I know I'm itching for a continued stretch of shittyness.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Yeah, push come to shove I think I would do it too. First I'd try to get someone like Ogando as well though.

 

Ogando's overrated.

[theblujay]

Imagine, we could be trudging down the same path as the Tigers without the budget. Sub in Paul Beeston for Illitch and in a year or two we'll have the same situation. No farm, a bloated payroll, aged team. And when Illitch & Beeston are gone, things will definitely be different and there'll be a dry spell for atleast a half decade for both teams.

 

I know I'm itching for a continued stretch of shittyness.

Nah, the Tigers are relevant after July. We aren't.

[theblujay]

I really don't think AA is going to trade Sanchez, so that probably means he will trade Stroman.

 

I think that would be a HUGE mistake considering what we will probably get in return.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Agreed

 

Let's trade our best player for a prospect who failed poorly in his first year

 

That will turn this franchise around

 

Jose Bautista failed as a prospect for his first 5 years, because he hadn't met Chito.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Dickey is a sui generis case, his age isn't so important.

 

Even though there aren't many miles on his arm.....he's still 40. And when you get into this age area, no matter who you are, you start losing it.....unless you're #25.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Though he's not pitching half of his games at Citi Field anymore, and that definitely showed this season with the alarming HR rate.

 

I got a kick out of watching guys launch balls off him. His reaction was priceless when he was getting shellacked.

[DuckDuckGose]

I doubt Jays get Shark...been on-line for a few weeks and nothing has happened.

 

Apparently a lot of deals are being hung up on the Tanaka situation.

[DuckDuckGose]

Baustista and Sanchez is a steep price to pay for Shark and Castro in my opinion .

 

Castro would be nice but not necessary while Bautista is more valuable to us right now

 

It makes no sense.

[theblujay]

Most people are saying the opposite. Explain more?

 

Well I'm under the impression that Sanchez was AA's favorite out of the Lansing 3 and I feel like he's not gonna trade the last remaining member of that trio. Plus Sanchez is more of AA's type (Projectable, tall, hard throwing).

[Frenchsoup]

It makes no sense.

 

I can pretty much guarantee you the shark ain't coming to t-dot AA is to scared he'll get ripped on by Perkins for grabbing another national league pitcher.