Blue Jays-Dodgers World Series Game 4 Thread: Shane Bieber vs Shohei Ohtani

[rydermike]

22 minutes ago, Waylanderz said:

I am hoping Bassit will be available tonight.

I think he'll be available and that's why he was pulled, so he would be available if needed for multiple innings in relief of Trey

8 pitches Monday

20 pitches Tuesday

[max silver]

7 minutes ago, rydermike said:

I think he'll be available and that's why he was pulled, so he would be available if needed for multiple innings in relief of Trey

8 pitches Monday

20 pitches Tuesday

We shall see. Bassitt is a 36 year old starter who just appeared in back to back games for the first time in his career so it might be a tall order expecting him to pitch 3 days in a row. 

[max silver]

8 hours ago, Jonn said:

And all those little decisions matter. Because tomorrow the margins might be a little tighter and you kinda want those guys at their best. Varland wasn't very good tonight but he seems to be a bit of a rubber arm who likes throwing everyday. So maybe he gets you a couple big outs tomorrow on 3 and row. I feel like to many people here get defensive over people making valid criticisms. If we can't talk about the game from different perspectives why are we even here. Nothing wrong with these conversations. And I personally like hearing other peoples opinions and reasoning. I don't jump down people's throats about it though. I disagree and make mine.

There's way to much your a f***ing idiot for thinking that way. Or your so negative because you have this opinion. Like were here to talk about Baseball right lol. I just don't understand it.

I don't think anyone takes issue with valid criticism, but it's just par for the course for a ton of posters here to go completely overboard. Like taking out a 36 year old reliever pitching in back to back games for the first time in his career to save some bullets for later means that the team won in spite of the manager despite every move up to that point working out very well. I don't like seeing Varland pitching so often either, but these decisions don't happen in a vacuum by the manager alone without consulting the pitching coaches, high performance department, the pitchers themselves, front office etc.

[mphenhef]

1 hour ago, Waylanderz said:

I am hoping Bassit will be available tonight.

He's looked fantastic out of the pen hasn't he.

[Governator]

This is a ridiculous statline even if it's skewed to 2 or 3 home games.

[rydermike]

While Bassitt was rolling, I understand the decision to swap him to save the arm given it was a five run lead. If it was still 2-1, he probably stays in there. But I'm also glad that JS was quick to warm up Hoffman as soon as the first baserunner got on. Playoffs, someone should always be warm. I had that issue earlier in the playoffs. It's nothing to do with trust, it's playoffs, always need to be ready

[SeranthonySantander]

We can move on from game 3 now.  Dodger's had the lead in every game, if they don't give up the homer to Varsho game 1 they could have won.  If their bullpen didn't suck they win all 4.  If Ohtani doesn't throw a bad pitch to Vlad the Dodger's could have won game 4.  If we just scored in the first off Yamamoto we could have won game 2.  If we could have executed in extras maybe we win game 3.  Whatever

[Governator]

3 minutes ago, SeranthonySantander said:

We can move on from game 3 now.  Dodger's had the lead in every game, if they don't give up the homer to Varsho game 1 they could have won.  If their bullpen didn't suck they win all 4.  If Ohtani doesn't throw a bad pitch to Vlad the Dodger's could have won game 4.  If we just scored in the first off Yamamoto we could have won game 2.  If we could have executed in extras maybe we win game 3.  Whatever

 

Unless we win the WS I'll still be bitter about that delayed call on Varsho.

[jmomcc]

1 minute ago, Governator said:

 

Unless we win the WS I'll still be bitter about that delayed call on Varsho.

Yea that was a complete 'how dare you move to first' delayed ego call that is wildly inappropriate in a world series game. 

[SeranthonySantander]

3 minutes ago, Governator said:

 

Unless we win the WS I'll still be bitter about that delayed call on Varsho.

Yea, we will definitely put an asterisk on the Dodgers if they win it in 7.

I'm still upset about the Red Sox game with the missed fair ball call on Springer.  If we won that game maybe we end up resting Gausman for game 162 which means he was slightly more fresh for game 6.  If he has a bad game 6, it's on that 3rd base ump.

[Big_Walleye]

It's time John Schneider got some credit for helping to provide us with this incredible run of playoff baseball.  

Being an MLB manager is an extremely difficult job.  Every move a manager makes is under such extreme scrutiny.  People expect every decision to work out 100% but that's not how baseball works.  

This team is held together with bubble gum and duct tape right now but yet they're somehow good enough to compete with the Dodgers on the biggest stage in spite of the manager.  

You can't argue with the success of this team at this point.  These guys play hard no matter how many people think they're finished.  They just keep doing it over and over.  That type of effort in the face of adversity takes great leadership and John Schneider is the one steering that ship.

[Laika]

Bassitt is probably saying he is good for an inning tonight, and he probably should be. 

I don't really know if the three days in a row thing matters. 

It matters for normal relievers because they go out there and air it out every night. 

We have no idea what Bassitt's exertion was on individual pitches last night or the night before. 

In a normal start the dude will have 4 or 5 up-downs and throw 15-20 pitches in 5 or 6 consecutive innings. So in relation to that, 8 pitches on a Monday, then 20 with one up-down on a Tuesday, and then one inning on a Wednesday, should not be problematic at all. 

BUT if he was actually airing it out last night, it could be an issue. 

Hopefully he's not even needed. I mean they have Hoffman, Seranthony, and Fisher rested now, and Fluharty can go again since he only threw 4 pitches. 

Trey 5.1 innings, Fluharty 0.2, to Fisher to Seranthony to Hoffman ball game. 

 

[PitaBaby]

This is our year boys. Book it. 

[Laika]

things get sorta gross if Trey can't go deep enough

then you need Little, Bassitt, Varland to contribute and all have these obvious question marks 

personally I am not scared of using Little in the right spot. 

[Governator]

15 minutes ago, Laika said:

Bassitt is probably saying he is good for an inning tonight, and he probably should be. 

I don't really know if the three days in a row thing matters. 

It matters for normal relievers because they go out there and air it out every night. 

We have no idea what Bassitt's exertion was on individual pitches last night or the night before. 

In a normal start the dude will have 4 or 5 up-downs and throw 15-20 pitches in 5 or 6 consecutive innings. So in relation to that, 8 pitches on a Monday, then 20 with one up-down on a Tuesday, and then one inning on a Wednesday, should not be problematic at all. 

BUT if he was actually airing it out last night, it could be an issue. 

Hopefully he's not even needed. I mean they have Hoffman, Seranthony, and Fisher rested now, and Fluharty can go again since he only threw 4 pitches. 

Trey 5.1 innings, Fluharty 0.2, to Fisher to Seranthony to Hoffman ball game. 

 

 

Even though Bassit has been reliable and like you said likely can go another, I'm not sure giving them another look from him is ideal unless the scenario really calls for it.  A rest day would be best, not for being tired just to skip him before they beat him philosophy.

I think almost everyone is available with 3 games to go in their season as it appears everyone is running on adrenaline right now.

 

[AMS528]

I just read through this thread and my God some of you are whiney. 

Vlad continues the historically great post season. Second most hits in a single post season now. 

With Bo it's amazing that he has avoided the rust of being off for weeks, jumped into playoff baseball and been consistently clutch already. 

I feel good about facing Snell again next. 

[Stangstag]

29 minutes ago, Laika said:

things get sorta gross if Trey can't go deep enough

then you need Little, Bassitt, Varland to contribute and all have these obvious question marks 

personally I am not scared of using Little in the right spot. 

Seranthony should be able to go 1-2, Fisher for 1, Hoffman for 1-2, Little for 1. I think we will be ok

[jmomcc]

45 minutes ago, Big_Walleye said:

It's time John Schneider got some credit for helping to provide us with this incredible run of playoff baseball.  

Being an MLB manager is an extremely difficult job.  Every move a manager makes is under such extreme scrutiny.  People expect every decision to work out 100% but that's not how baseball works.  

This team is held together with bubble gum and duct tape right now but yet they're somehow good enough to compete with the Dodgers on the biggest stage in spite of the manager.  

You can't argue with the success of this team at this point.  These guys play hard no matter how many people think they're finished.  They just keep doing it over and over.  That type of effort in the face of adversity takes great leadership and John Schneider is the one steering that ship.

I thought he did another over risky sub for marginal gains in that game. 
 

France for Lukes and then Straw could have ended up with straw in a pivotal at bat if we didn't get more add on runs. 

Feel like he just over thinks it sometimes. Schneider there can play outfield. Or just leave lukes in. 

[Big_Walleye]

10 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

I thought he did another over risky sub for marginal gains in that game. 
 

France for Lukes and then Straw could have ended up with straw in a pivotal at bat if we didn't get more add on runs. 

Feel like he just over thinks it sometimes. Schneider there can play outfield. Or just leave lukes in. 

France drove in a run.  It wasn't pretty but he did the job.  Maybe Lukes hits into a double play. Maybe Schneider strikes out.

Its bad enough that the moves that don't work get criticized but criticizing the ones that do is just negativity.

[Laika]

43 minutes ago, Governator said:

 

Even though Bassit has been reliable and like you said likely can go another, I'm not sure giving them another look from him is ideal unless the scenario really calls for it.  A rest day would be best, not for being tired just to skip him before they beat him philosophy.

I think almost everyone is available with 3 games to go in their season as it appears everyone is running on adrenaline right now.

 

100%

Part of what is making Bassitt effective is probably that other teams did not do a whole preparation binder on Setup Man Chris Bassitt 

Definitely we could see his effectiveness collapse if they see him more and more 

Bassitt game 1 - Kike, Muncy, Teoscar, Smith
game 3 - Kike, Edman, Teoscar
game 4 - Kike, Call, Ohtani, Betts, Freeman, Smith

JS and staff need to be charting out the number of matchups dudes have had against specific hitters, and I am sure they are. Varland is a bigger concern than Bassitt, and Fisher is surprisingly a possible issue.

Batters Faced World Series

• Lauer - 24
• Varland - 15
• Fisher - 15
• Bassitt - 13
• Hoffman - 11
• Seranthony - 10
• Flu - 8
• Little - 6

Hoffman and Seranthony and the LHRP are the dudes tonight. Lauer likely not available of course, but who freaking knows.  

[John_Havok]

52 minutes ago, Big_Walleye said:

It's time John Schneider got some credit for helping to provide us with this incredible run of playoff baseball.  

Being an MLB manager is an extremely difficult job.  Every move a manager makes is under such extreme scrutiny.  People expect every decision to work out 100% but that's not how baseball works.  

This team is held together with bubble gum and duct tape right now but yet they're somehow good enough to compete with the Dodgers on the biggest stage in spite of the manager.  

You can't argue with the success of this team at this point.  These guys play hard no matter how many people think they're finished.  They just keep doing it over and over.  That type of effort in the face of adversity takes great leadership and John Schneider is the one steering that ship.

The finer point of this post is that the managers decisions are being judged by idiot fans that probably have less than 1 % of the information at the managers disposal and are mostly made up of incessant whining and hindsight. 

[Terminator]

3 hours ago, Waylanderz said:

I am hoping Bassit will be available tonight.

Yeah throwing Varland for the final inning last night ensures both of them are ready tonight.

[jmomcc]

45 minutes ago, Big_Walleye said:

France drove in a run.  It wasn't pretty but he did the job.  Maybe Lukes hits into a double play. Maybe Schneider strikes out.

Its bad enough that the moves that don't work get criticized but criticizing the ones that do is just negativity.

That is not a logical way to make subs.

[jmomcc]

16 minutes ago, John_Havok said:

The finer point of this post is that the managers decisions are being judged by idiot fans that probably have less than 1 % of the information at the managers disposal and are mostly made up of incessant whining and hindsight. 

I'd love to see the 99% that explains how france and ikf are better hitters than schneider. 

[Terminator]

What a win last night.

Anytime you think this team is cooked, they deliver.

• 4 games under .500 toward the end of April. They go on a huge summer run to take the division lead.
• Yankees tie the division with 4 games to go. Jays win all 4 to hold them off.
• Judge hits that moonshot and the Yanks come back to take Game 3. Jays win a bullpen game the next day. Series over.
• Seattle takes the first two in Toronto. Jays bounce back to take the next 2 in Seattle.
• Seattle wins Game 5. Jays take Game 6 and deliver an epic comeback win in Game 7.
• Dodgers win the 18-inning marathon which is a total gut punch to whoever the losing side was going to be. Springer is hurt. The Jays come out and knock around Ohtani anyway to win Game 4.

[AMS528]

6 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

I'd love to see the 99% that explains how france and ikf are better hitters than schneider. 

So I thought the same but if I was providing the reasons for why, it would be that Schneider has struck out in exactly 30% of PAs in his career and France has struck out in 18% of PAs in his career. 

Schneider wanted to play for the run, not for the possibility of DS maybe getting a bigger hit. He did not want a K in that situation and so went with France. 

Maybe you think it's better to go for a big inning than to just try and guarantee a single run here, but I do think I understand trying to just get that 4th run for sure. It provides a reasonable amount of breathing room. 

In that frame of thinking, I don't see why it's any kind of egregious decision. One that you can disagree with if your philosophy about what is more important is different. But going with the guy who is likelier to make contact in a situation where you want to guarantee another run in a two run game is entirely defensible I think. 

[Terminator]

17 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

I'd love to see the 99% that explains how france and ikf are better hitters than schneider. 

I've been a huge fan of Schneider but part of the reason why his numbers are as good as they are is because the team is selective in how they deploy him.

He's a strikeout hitter who struggles against righthanded velocity. In the playoffs you will see a ton of that.

IKF and France don't strike out much so while they kind of suck they will put the ball in play and with a little BABIP luck they can get some hits.

 

[jmomcc]

10 minutes ago, AMS528 said:

So I thought the same but if I was providing the reasons for why, it would be that Schneider has struck out in exactly 30% of PAs in his career and France has struck out in 18% of PAs in his career. 

Schneider wanted to play for the run, not for the possibility of DS maybe getting a bigger hit. He did not want a K in that situation and so went with France. 

Maybe you think it's better to go for a big inning than to just try and guarantee a single run here, but I do think I understand trying to just get that 4th run for sure. It provides a reasonable amount of breathing room. 

In that frame of thinking, I don't see why it's any kind of egregious decision. One that you can disagree with if your philosophy about what is more important is different. But going with the guy who is likelier to make contact in a situation where you want to guarantee another run in a two run game is entirely defensible I think. 

Schneider can also take a walk though, and crucially he can play outfield. Put it all together and it seems like a better play. 

[jmomcc]

5 minutes ago, Terminator said:

I've been a huge fan of Schneider but part of the reason why his numbers are as good as they are is because the team is selective in how they deploy him.

He's a strikeout hitter who struggles against righthanded velocity. In the playoffs you will see a ton of that.

IKF and France don't strike out much so while they kind of suck they will put the ball in play and with a little BABIP luck they can get some hits.

 

This never makes sense to me because as the underdog, i kind of want someone who can run into some home runs and walk. 

[AMS528]

5 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

This never makes sense to me because as the underdog, i kind of want someone who can run into some home runs and walk. 

Sure but that has mostly not been the teams hitting philosophy. This is the team that (and every person in American media has been saying for the last three weeks) does not strike out, puts the ball in play regularly and creates big innings from that. They also do walk, but in the way Vladdy and Kirk do, walking while also not striking out. 

Schneider has had a good year being used in the way Terminator said, but the team overall has gotten to the playoffs and the WS now by not striking out. The team was by whatever measure you want to use at worst a top 3 team at hitting this year.