General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2025)

[jerb]

 

[jerb]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/watch-live-blue-jays-ross-atkins-speaks-to-the-media/

[Jonn]

Once again if they didn’t want to pay Vladdy what he wants they should have traded him.

I’m not mad at a lack of extension if they really felt he wasn’t worth “his number”. I’m mad that they are now likely going to lose him for nothing or a watered down return at the Deadline.

[John_Havok]

4 minutes ago, Jonn said:

Once again if they didn’t want to pay Vladdy what he wants they should have traded him.

I’m not mad at a lack of extension if they really felt he wasn’t worth “his number”. I’m mad that they are now likely going to lose him for nothing or a watered down return at the Deadline.

Not a forgone conclusion but.... looking more likely every day now for sure.

Which of course now makes it weird... did you cheer for the guy to be MVP level Vlad this season and in doing so increase the odds of a playoff looking team that all bit guarantees no trade at the deadline?

Or do you hope he's wildly inconsistent, seemingly proving the brass right for not extending him...but then watching the Jays flounder, and having is value at the deadline be substandard....

Interesting times

[BB17]

15 hours ago, jaysblue said:

Kirk ain't getting $20-25M per season lol. 

Maybe $10-12M max. 

If he has two 3 win seasons bets getting more than f***ing 10M in FA lol. 

[jerb]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/watch-live-blue-jays-mark-shapiro-speaks-to-the-media/

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

35 minutes ago, John_Havok said:

 

Which of course now makes it weird... did you cheer for the guy to be MVP level Vlad this season and in doing so increase the odds of a playoff looking team that all bit guarantees no trade at the deadline?

Or do you hope he's wildly inconsistent, seemingly proving the brass right for not extending him...but then watching the Jays flounder, and having is value at the deadline be substandard....

Interesting times

Why would you even consider cheering for him to have a down year just so Shatkins looks better?

Are you a Jays fan, or a Shatkins fan?

For posters like you and Brownie19, it's obvious your more of a Shatkins fan than Jays fan.

[Carlos Danger]

1 hour ago, John_Havok said:

Not a forgone conclusion but.... looking more likely every day now for sure.

Which of course now makes it weird... did you cheer for the guy to be MVP level Vlad this season and in doing so increase the odds of a playoff looking team that all bit guarantees no trade at the deadline?

Or do you hope he's wildly inconsistent, seemingly proving the brass right for not extending him...but then watching the Jays flounder, and having is value at the deadline be substandard....

Interesting times

That is why they should have traded him during peak FA season when Tucker was traded. 

I would bet the two Blue Jays knew they were not going to match Vlad’’s number for a while now. The Padres and Astros did the right move with Soto and Tucker…. 

 

Now the Mets signed Alonso and the Red Sox Bregman. Red Sox could still go after him prior to FA, but they would have had more motivation a few weeks ago. They wouldn’t have a where to play guys issue either. 

[John_Havok]

23 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

That is why they should have traded him during peak FA season when Tucker was traded. 

I would bet the two Blue Jays knew they were not going to match Vlad’’s number for a while now. The Padres and Astros did the right move with Soto and Tucker…. 

 

Now the Mets signed Alonso and the Red Sox Bregman. Red Sox could still go after him prior to FA, but they would have had more motivation a few weeks ago. They wouldn’t have a where to play guys issue either. 

If anything, the Alonso situation should be showing Vlad what the league thinks about 1b value. 

#2, why didn't Houston trade Bregman last year then?

 

Understand I'm just playing devils advocate here. I think comparing 2 teams in different situations isn't overly useful. And there's no 1 bad guy in a 2 way negotiation if a deal doesn't get done  , without knowing the details.

My feeling is Vlad overvalues himself to the point where blindly caving to his number would be stupid. My feeling is also that Atkins and Shapiro are too risk averse in this specific scenario to get close enough for Vlad to even consider concessions. 

I blame neither party fully, but lean towards like...55-60% Vlad. But even then, I understand why he's asking for it, he holds all the leverage going into FA.

[Laika]

Fantasy baseball player update telling me that Kevin Gausman got beefy on purpose

 

Latest News

Feb 17, 2025 8:39 PM EST

Blue Jays manager John Schneider said that Gausman looks "sturdier" in spring training after the right-hander deliberately put on added weight over the offseason, Keegan Matheson of MLB.com reports. "I've never really pitched an entire season at over 200 pounds, but I think that might be a possibility for me this year," Gausman said. "We'll see what happens. I usually always lose a good amount of weight during the season, so that's why I try to gain as much as I can, knowing I'll lose some of it."

Analysis

Gausman is listed at 6-foot-2 and 205 pounds on the Blue Jays' official roster, and he's hopeful that by bulking up during the offseason through both his diet and strength training, he'll be able to maintain that weight over the course of the long season. The 34-year-old righty is also optimistic that a sturdier build will boost his odds of staying healthy and having something closer to a normal spring training in 2025. While he didn't go on the injured list at any point in 2024, a bout with shoulder fatigue early in camp slowed his ramp-up process and may have played a part in the steep drop in both his ERA (3.83) and strikeout rate (21.4 percent) compared to his first two seasons in Toronto (3.25 ERA, 29.7 K%).

[Daniel Labude]

Well at least this front office is done after this season. Possibly no playoffs, no Vlad, no Bo, minor league system crippled by injured pitchers. Some bad contracts and a very old SP staff

[Grant77]

18 minutes ago, LetTheBallFly said:

Well at least this front office is done after this season. Possibly no playoffs, no Vlad, no Bo, minor league system crippled by injured pitchers. Some bad contracts and a very old SP staff

Outside of Springer making a bunch in 2026, the contract situation seems fine. We're not locked into any bad long term money at the moment. A new GM would have a lot of payroll flexibility.

[jerb]

 

[jerb]

 

[Barrelsandbombs]

 

[Carlos Danger]

3 minutes ago, Barrelsandbombs said:

 

Nice to see Springer wanting to put Team first and hit anywhere in the lineup. That wasn’t the case last year to start the year and it killed us!!! Contract and name on back of the shirt aside, you need to perform if you want to hit leadoff. 

[Brownie19]

11 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

Nice to see Springer wanting to put Team first and hit anywhere in the lineup. That wasn’t the case last year to start the year and it killed us!!! Contract and name on back of the shirt aside, you need to perform if you want to hit leadoff. 

George refused to be taken out of the leadoff spot last year?  That's news to me.  

[Jonn]

28 minutes ago, Barrelsandbombs said:

 

Why in the actual fudge cakes would they be considering Giminez for the leadoff spot? He’s arguably the worst hitter on the team and posted .638 OPS and sub .300 OBP.

He shouldn’t be hitting anywhere but 9th. Literally the worst leadoff option imaginable.

 

[Carlos Danger]

31 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

George refused to be taken out of the leadoff spot last year?  That's news to me.  

They didn’t want to piss him off and deferred to his status for a long time when he wasn’t producing. John Schnieder talked about this diplomatically many times when he made his Friday appearances on Blair and Barker. 

Springer has a lot of pride, had always hit leadoff, had the huge contract and WS etc. It was apparently a tricky navigation until finally Springer went and said, ok, move me down if you need to. 

So credit to Springer in the end, but by that time the hole was deep. 

[Brownie19]

13 minutes ago, Jonn said:

Why in the actual fudge cakes would they be considering Giminez for the leadoff spot? He’s arguably the worst hitter on the team and posted .638 OPS and sub .300 OBP.

He shouldn’t be hitting anywhere but 9th. Literally the worst leadoff option imaginable.

 

Bo's OBP was .277 last year, Springer's was .303, Gimenez was .298.  If you only consider last years' results, then all 3 options suck.  We don't really have an obvious choice, so considering several candidates seems appropriate.  

Steamer OBP projections

Gimenez .318

Springer .319

Bo .324

The .371 mark Gimenez posted 2 years ago is also well above anything Bo's ever done and Springer only surpassed that mark once in his career (2019).  I don't see why you'd rule him out as an option in Day 1 of spring training...

 

[Brownie19]

Just now, Carlos Danger said:

They didn’t want to piss him off and deferred to his status for a long time when he wasn’t producing. John Schnieder talked about this diplomatically many times when he made his Friday appearances on Blair and Barker. 

Springer has a lot of pride, had always hit leadoff, had the huge contract and WS etc. It was apparently a tricky navigation until finally Springer went and said, ok, move me down if you need to. 

So credit to Springer in the end, but by that time the hole was deep. 

So the answer is no, Springer didn't refuse to be taken out of the leadoff spot.  Not surprised, the guy is a class act.

[Carlos Danger]

22 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

So the answer is no, Springer didn't refuse to be taken out of the leadoff spot.  Not surprised, the guy is a class act.

He did not want to be taken out of the leadoff spot and he created an atmosphere where they were scared to do it without really pissing him off and the repercussions for the Team that come with it. After he started sucking for so long, he finally acquiesced. . 

Frame it however you want, they didn’t make the move earlier because of potential blowback. If any other player other than their guy with the biggest contract he would have been moved way prior. 

Stroman hasn’t technically refused to go to the pen yet. However, he tells the org and the media 100 times a day I am a starter, I am a starter. I am not a pen guy, I am a starter. 

Ergo, Yankees know if they put him in the pen there will be drama. Who gives a f*** what Stroman thinks. However with the Jays, they didn’t want to rock the boat. 

 

 

[Laika]

13 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

He did not want to be taken out of the leadoff spot and he created an atmosphere where they were scared to do it without really pissing him off and the repercussions for the Team that come with it. After he started sucking for so long, he finally acquiesced. . 

Frame it however you want, they didn’t make the move earlier because of potential blowback. If any other player other than their guy with the biggest contract he would have been moved way prior. 

Stroman hasn’t technically refused to go to the pen yet. However, he tells the org and the media 100 times a day I am a starter, I am a starter. I am not a pen guy, I am a starter. 

Ergo, Yankees know if they put him in the pen there will be drama. Who gives a f*** what Stroman thinks. However with the Jays, they didn’t want to rock the boat. 

This seems made up. I mean all of the references to "repercussions" or "pissing him off" or they were "scared to do it" or even the "potential blowback" being part of the thought process at all. 

They probably took so long to move him down because he still projected well and they didn't want to overreact and just thought it best to leave him in his usual spot. 

[Brownie19]

2 minutes ago, Laika said:

This seems made up. I mean all of the references to "repercussions" or "pissing him off" or they were "scared to do it" or even the "potential blowback" being part of the thought process at all. 

They probably took so long to move him down because he still projected well and they didn't want to overreact and just thought it best to leave him in his usual spot. 

Bingo.

Schneider may have also hesitated because of the respect he has for Springer, but there's little to no evidence that if they approached Springer and spoke to him about moving out of the leadoff spot, that he'd refuse or create any drama.

[Barrelsandbombs]

The one thing that for sure happened with Springer, and might still be happening, is that he was (maybe still is?) struggling with the reality of his decline.

During the 2024 season Ben Clemens did a FanGraphs chat on May 6th. Springer asked Ben Clemens a question that day:

Quote

George Springer: Projections still think I’m pretty good, but I haven’t been playing well for a while. What do you expect of me going forward, stats-wise?

And Clemens responded to him:

Quote

Ben Clemens: I’m out, to be honest. I’ve watched a good number of Jays games this year and I think that something is wrong. Maybe it’s injury, who knows? But my expectations are that Springer is kind of a platoon bat and no more until I see more evidence to the contrary

Here is the link to the chat from that day: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/ben-clemens-fangraphs-chat-5-6-24/

No one can technically say for certain that Springer resisted being moved off leadoff, but for a guy who was openly struggling with his decline, I think inferences can safely be made about the leadoff thing.

[Laika]

15 minutes ago, Barrelsandbombs said:

The one thing that for sure happened with Springer, and might still be happening, is that he was (maybe still is?) struggling with the reality of his decline.

During the 2024 season Ben Clemens did a FanGraphs chat on May 6th. Springer asked Ben Clemens a question that day:

And Clemens responded to him:

Here is the link to the chat from that day: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/ben-clemens-fangraphs-chat-5-6-24/

No one can technically say for certain that Springer resisted being moved off leadoff, but for a guy who was openly struggling with his decline, I think inferences can safely be made about the leadoff thing.

wait wait wait hold up hold up

do you think this was actually george springer? 

[Barrelsandbombs]

15 minutes ago, Laika said:

wait wait wait hold up hold up

do you think this was actually george springer? 

 

[Carlos Danger]

39 minutes ago, Laika said:

This seems made up. I mean all of the references to "repercussions" or "pissing him off" or they were "scared to do it" or even the "potential blowback" being part of the thought process at all. 

They probably took so long to move him down because he still projected well and they didn't want to overreact and just thought it best to leave him in his usual spot. 

I listened to the show daily and the Friday call in with JS on multiple weeks. In addition, Barker and Blair have off record sources and things JS told them that he couldn’t say on the air. To anyone really  paying attention at the time,  this is not a surprise. 

Don’t shoot the messenger, this was a topic discussed daily ad nauseam. 

They had one of the worst hitters in the league over that stretch getting the most ABs and coming up late innings with RISP multiple times and failing. 
 

It went on so long for a reason other than projections. 

 

 

 

[Laika]

1 minute ago, Carlos Danger said:

I listened to the show daily and the Friday call in with JS on multiple weeks. In addition, Barker and Blair have off record sources and things JS told them that he couldn’t say on the air. To anyone really  paying attention at the time,  this is not a surprise. 

Don’t shoot the messenger, this was a topic discussed daily ad nauseam. 

They had one of the worst hitters in the league over that stretch getting the most ABs and coming up late innings with RISP multiple times and failing. 
 

It went on so long for a reason other than projections. 

 

 

 

Oh you listen to the radio 

You're a real radio scout

my apologies, Mr. Radio man 

[Carlos Danger]

2 minutes ago, Laika said:

Oh you listen to the radio 

You're a real radio scout

my apologies, Mr. Radio man 

So I am making a point based off the manager’s words, former MLB players and people who cover the team for a living over a course of months. 

The counter points are. Springer seems like a nice guy from my perspective behind my keyboard.

Or me no see this data on Fangraphs, therefore is false. 

Ball players have egos, and not all pigs are equal and they expect different treatment. 

BB is correct, Springer was struggling with the reality of age and decline.

Rainbow colored glasses keep people in good spirits though.