Jays Acquiring Andres Gimenez

[Jonn]

This trade starts making more sense when you think about the SS situation past 2025. Plus if/when Bo gets injured, we have a legit everyday option. Would make even more sense if they decided to shift Bo to 2nd

 

If Gimenez can rebound even a bit with the bat, he’s basically Ha Seong Kim which is a guy everyone wanted us to sign. But younger.

 

Will be interesting to see what kind of deal Kim gets and how it compares to Gimenez’ remaining contract

 

Kim can actually hit and get on base. Not a fan of the comparison.

[Orgfiller]

Kim can actually hit and get on base. Not a fan of the comparison.

 

Kim has a career wRC+ of 101…guess what Gimenez’s is? Kim is about to get a higher AAV than Gimenez while being 3 years older and coming off injury.

[jaysblue]

Have no issue with the Gimenez trade as long as the Jays add a masher now in LF and at DH.

[Dick_Pole]

Reading the reaction to this trade is like looking at a U.S. electoral map and results by demographic from 2008 to 2016 to 2024. A lot of people who I didn't expect to hate the trade hate it while some are coming out in defense of it that I also would not expect.

 

FWIW, I think the trade in a vacuum is fine..and the trade in the context of the team is also fine. 2B was a black hole last year. Such a black hole that it even overrides the offense/defense mismatch. This was an easy but expensive way to improve the team. Could the dollars have been spent better? Probably. But could Atkins have spent those dollars better in free agency? Probably not.

 

The biggest indictment of that baseball trade values site is that up until now they have pretty much universally loved Atkins trades, which is the wrong conclusion. Maybe they are wrong here too.

[Jaysareus]

Horowitz was in he top three offensive players for the jays.

[jaysblue]

I will reserve judgement on Atkins at the end of the offseason after all moves have been made. I said the same thing last year that I didn't mind some moves he made like with IKF if he was brought in as a super utility guy and if KK was brought in as a 4th OF who gets around 300 PA, as long as the Jays go out to add two big bats. Instead both were in the starting lineup and the Jays didn't add anyone with any thump lol. They spent approx $45M on IKF, KK, Green and Turner, which was awful.

 

I think the trade is fine. I understand Atkins' reasoning and the thought that it was a cheap way to add a 3 WAR floor guy via trade. If he finds his way with the bat, he's shown he could have 5 to 6 WAR potential. His age and the years of control are definitely nice, and it gives the Jays some insurance and infield stability when Bo decides to walk as a FA next offseason. Kinda shows you that Atkins isn't just thinking about this season, but post 2025 as well.

 

Now let's hope the Jays are able to add two more power bats, in order to compliment the rest of the lineup. Need some balance and its obvious power is a missing ingredient when it comes to the lineup. Cannot ignore it again and only focus on slap hitting defensive first players. As well, let's hope the Jays have more in their payroll in order to add. If it's only $20M left as being suggested, would be very disappointed.

[saskjayfan]

Casuals seem to like the trade...probably more reason to hate it.

 

We just lost Bo Bichette in this trade. Who would you rather have. Bo at 23 to 25 mil a year and tack on 2 to 3 more years or Giminez at 19 mil a year for 5 years.

[John_Havok]

We just lost Bo Bichette in this trade. Who would you rather have. Bo at 23 to 25 mil a year and tack on 2 to 3 more years or Giminez at 19 mil a year for 5 years.

 

Given that the Bo scenario you outlined is likely an impossibility, comparing the 2 is pretty pointless

[Stangstag]

Have no issue with the Gimenez trade as long as the Jays add a masher now in LF and at DH.

 

Same. Will be pretty upset if this ends up like last offseason and they don’t get enough firepower in the lineup.

[MikeM3]

We just lost Bo Bichette in this trade. Who would you rather have. Bo at 23 to 25 mil a year and tack on 2 to 3 more years or Giminez at 19 mil a year for 5 years.

 

Gimenez at SS is not that bad and also necessary. However will we do this or let him play 2b like we made Varsho play LF

[Barrelsandbombs]

Shi Davidi thinks a reunion with Teoscar would qualify as a similar type of acquisition to Fried/Burnes/Santander/Bregman, where landing 1 or more of them could allow them to escalate their internal budget by up to $20M, from the CBT threshold of $241M, to the 2nd CBT threshold of $261M. He also thinks their final offer on Soto might have been significantly under $700M.

 

All off-season long, two narratives about the Toronto Blue Jays circulated in baseball’s gossip circles.

 

One painted them as a team hell-bent on spending big, determined at all costs to remake their roster after an 88-loss season, lengthening a competitive window at risk of expiring.

 

The other depicted them as a team intent on finding ways to improve within the confines of their ever-trusted processes, exploring all avenues while staying within, and remaining disciplined to, their valuations.

 

As the former took root far deeper than the latter, fuelled by the Blue Jays’ participation in the Juan Soto sweepstakes, the perception of their plans swerved further and further from reality. While industry speculation suggested their final bid for the superstar wasn’t far off the $765 million committed to him by the New York Mets, they were actually under $700 million, perhaps even significantly so. On Max Fried, who agreed to a $218-million, eight-year deal with the New York Yankees, they weren’t in nearly deep enough to factor at the end. The same thing will almost surely happen with Corbin Burnes, too.

 

The breadcrumbs of clues dropped thus far suggest the Blue Jays’ payroll, without a Soto-like special-opportunity acquisition, is expected to land around the first CBT threshold of $241 million, which means they have roughly $13 million to work with.

 

Maybe they can push towards the second CBT threshold for the right player and the right opportunity — Teoscar Hernandez is someone who might fit the bill — but otherwise, barring some real roster creativity, the next phase of the Blue Jays’ off-season may very well be patiently playing the market.

[mphenhef]

If it makes anyone feel better, the Indians Reddit is going bonkers and are so pissed at this trade. I think it's clear if the Jays can add offense then it could be a home run trade but does this front office even recognize offense is a problem lol

 

Here's the thing, the Guardians aren't going to turn around and spend the ~20 million a year in savings on something else. That's why they hate the trade. The jays would have spent that money and it is debatable if that's the best way to spend it. I'm not sure I trust this front office/coaching staff to unlock extra potential in his bat.

[Laika]

Their internal projections probably have Gimenez closer to 4 WAR and Horwitz more of a 2 WAR ceiling with more risk.

 

The boring take is that they just like Gimenez' total package as a defense first 2B and think he has value on his contract.

 

The more interesting take is that they think Gimenez is a shortstop and Bo is gone.

[BTS]

Shi Davidi thinks a reunion with Teoscar would qualify as a similar type of acquisition to Fried/Burnes/Santander/Bregman, where landing 1 or more of them could allow them to escalate their internal budget by up to $20M, from the CBT threshold of $241M, to the 2nd CBT threshold of $261M. He also thinks their final offer on Soto might have been significantly under $700M.

 

 

So we have 13M to spend. Or maybe 33M, but only if they land Santander, Bregman, Burnes, or (maybe) Teo. Seems like someone at Rogers is being dumb. What if they're at 241M and see an opportunity to improve the team by adding two 10M players on short-term deals? That's a no because those players aren't Santander/Bregman/Burnes?

[Rusty_Savage]

We just lost Bo Bichette in this trade. Who would you rather have. Bo at 23 to 25 mil a year and tack on 2 to 3 more years or Giminez at 19 mil a year for 5 years.

 

I think Giminez's hit is $15M for luxury tax purposes and that's really all that matters. If they add two bat first guys, I am fine with this deal but if it's fillers from here on out, this doesn't make much sense

[Jaysareus]

Gimibez numbers are just average

[Angrioter]

But then Baseball trade values rates sending out Horwitz alone as a massive overpay.

 

We traded Nolan Schanuel 4 years older, nothing to see here.

 

The problem is Gimenez money.

[glory]

So we have 13M to spend. Or maybe 33M, but only if they land Santander, Bregman, Burnes, or (maybe) Teo. Seems like someone at Rogers is being dumb. What if they're at 241M and see an opportunity to improve the team by adding two 10M players on short-term deals? That's a no because those players aren't Santander/Bregman/Burnes?

 

Maybe they are only willing to do it for a handful of players because they don't trust Atkins to spend it otherwise. That's the only thing I can think of. After spending $50m on Vogelbach/IKF/KK/Turner/Green, I'm not sure I disagree with Rogers if that's their logic. With that said, yeah it's a pretty stupid mindset either way. Ownership is expecting Shatkins to turn this into a contender in 2025. They can't do that without a lot of money. If they somehow can't sign any of the handful of players that would cause a payroll increase, and payroll isn't going to increase because of that, then what the hell are we doing? It's not like top FA's with options are going to be flocking to the Jays. A few years ago this was a team on the rise with two emerging stars. That's not the case anymore. Spending, and spending big, is all they have left.

[Brownie19]

I think it's time to package up Ricky T and bring on Luis Roberts to play LF

[glory]

I think it's time to package up Ricky T and bring on Luis Roberts to play LF

 

Honestly if the Jays are not a desirable FA destination, then moves like that are probably the way to go. Buy low on controllable “expensive” players with 4 WAR ceilings and hope they can be fixed.

[Brownie19]

Honestly if the Jays are not a desirable FA destination, then moves like that are probably the way to go. Buy low on controllable “expensive” players with 4 WAR ceilings and hope they can be fixed.

 

His luxury tax AAV is only $8.3M this year. He's the perfect target for the Jays. He comes with club options for $20M in 2026 and 2027 also.

[Pendleton]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Gimenez 2022 season would rank as the third or fourth best season ever by a Blue Jays middle infielder. Would be behind Semien (2021) and Alomar (1992) but right in line with Alomar in '93, ahead of Bo's best season in 2021 and Aaron Hill in 2009....

[glory]

His luxury tax AAV is only $8.3M this year. He's the perfect target for the Jays. He comes with club options for $20M in 2026 and 2027 also.

 

Yeah this is the move to make, IMO. Not a high floor but probably the highest ceiling the Jays could realistically acquire, and as you said contract is very team friendly. Just a matter of what the White Sox are looking for in return, or if he’s even available.

 

Although if I had to put my Ross Atkins hat on, I’m going to guess he trades for someone like LaMonte Wade, given his lefty bat and offensive profile.

[Barrelsandbombs]

Andres Gimenez CBT hit with the Jays will be $19.3M. The number that was previously making the rounds was $15.2M AAVV

 

But I think there was an AAV adjustment resulting from the trade. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.

 

[L54]

20M in payroll allocated to Andres Gimenez

 

Maybe we can get Andrelton Simmons to play short after Bo is gone

[Dick_Pole]

I think Giminez's hit is $15M for luxury tax purposes and that's really all that matters. If they add two bat first guys, I am fine with this deal but if it's fillers from here on out, this doesn't make much sense

 

I'm 100% sure that the team is intent on bringing in two bat-first guys. Whether that succeeds, or results in dumpster diving 40 year olds past their prime, is another story.

[Dick_Pole]

We just lost Bo Bichette in this trade. Who would you rather have. Bo at 23 to 25 mil a year and tack on 2 to 3 more years or Giminez at 19 mil a year for 5 years.

 

The only way you get Bichette for 2/50 after this season is if he has a .500 OPS again or channels his inner Osuna sometime before next November.

[hanton]

I don't get how Gimenz can go from having an OBP of .371 in 2022 to .314 and .298 the next 2 seasons

 

from the Keith Law article "they eliminated his leg kick, which resulted in him hitting the ball much harder than he ever had and boosted his average launch angle too. He hit .297/.371/.466 and was worth 7.4 bWAR/6.1 fWAR in 2022, finishing sixth in MVP voting. The bad news is that it didn’t take — Giménez slugged just .340 last year....."

 

so it worked for 2022 and then it didn't ?

 

the low OBP/low power numbers is what's concerning

[ValiantJaysFan]

We just lost Bo Bichette in this trade. Who would you rather have. Bo at 23 to 25 mil a year and tack on 2 to 3 more years or Giminez at 19 mil a year for 5 years.

 

The further Bo is from this franchise, the better. If this is the case I'll change my mind on this Giminez acquisition, but right now I hate it.

[wilko]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Gimenez 2022 season would rank as the third or fourth best season ever by a Blue Jays middle infielder. Would be behind Semien (2021) and Alomar (1992) but right in line with Alomar in '93, ahead of Bo's best season in 2021 and Aaron Hill in 2009....

 

Gimenez is a stud and I can't wait for him to replace Bo at SS and boost that WAR even more!