Around Baseball 2024

[Olerud363]

Who's the AL MVP right now, Witt or Judge?

Soto might hit 10 fWAR this season and come in a distant third. Crazy year.

 

Witt has more WAR. Sometimes the up the middle player wins over the great hitter (Ichiro over Giambi 2001, Altuve over Judge 2017)

 

This is an extreme one with the numbers off the chart. If current rates hold you have a .345 hitter with 90 extra base hits, 225 hits, and a +20-25 at shortstop

 

vs

 

a .320 .450 .700 hitter

 

Witt has more fWAR currently. I would say historically the middle infielder wins if fWAR is close, but maybe hitting .320 .450 700 with 60 homeruns messes up the internal thought process.

 

Like if it was Witt at .320 25 100 and Judge at .300 50 135 and the ratio of WAR was the same (Witt ahead slightly) Witt would win no problem

 

But even though the WAR ratio is the same the extreme numbers hit the human voting brain differently.

 

Same reason why Vlad _may_ get a 35 million dollar arb award if he comes in at .325 32 105. He will be "ahead" of where Soto was last year (.270 35 110) and still have the big 2021 on the record... Soto got 31.

[Carlos Danger]

So far, so good for the Mariner's trade deadline acquisitions. Turns out "scrubs" Arozarena and Turner are making a difference.

 

Arozarena last 7 days- .464 OBP / .609 SLG%

 

Turner - .375 OBP / .478 SLG%

[Olerud363]

 

I would say historically the middle infielder wins if fWAR is close, but maybe hitting .320 .450 700 with 60 homeruns messes up the internal thought process.

 

 

On second thought the above is really stupid on my part. Obviously Trout vs. Cabrerra... Juan Gonzales MVP. George Bell MVP. Abreu in the shortened season.

 

No idea actually why the middle fielder occasionally gets the MVP vs the slugger... but often doesn't. Like why Altuve? Why Ichiro when the same guys will vote for Justin Morneau way lower WAR than 2002 Giambi a few years later??

 

I think no one has any idea what these MVP voters will do with...

 

Bobby Witt .350 30 110 11.2 WAR vs Judge .320 60 150 11.0 WAR

[Jimcanuck]

Supposed to be most valuable player to the team.... without looking at the numbers, I see Witt as more critical to KC success than Judge to NYY

 

If KC fall out of WC3 race, Judge wins.

 

Witt has also been a terror to my fantasy teams.

[Nexii]

On second thought the above is really stupid on my part. Obviously Trout vs. Cabrerra... Juan Gonzales MVP. George Bell MVP. Abreu in the shortened season.

 

No idea actually why the middle fielder occasionally gets the MVP vs the slugger... but often doesn't. Like why Altuve? Why Ichiro when the same guys will vote for Justin Morneau way lower WAR than 2002 Giambi a few years later??

 

I think no one has any idea what these MVP voters will do with...

 

Bobby Witt .350 30 110 11.2 WAR vs Judge .320 60 150 11.0 WAR

 

Might come down to the team narrative. Like whether the Yanks or Royals win their division or not

[Brownie19]

So far, so good for the Mariner's trade deadline acquisitions. Turns out "scrubs" Arozarena and Turner are making a difference.

 

Arozarena last 7 days- .464 OBP / .609 SLG%

 

Turner - .375 OBP / .478 SLG%

 

Probably better coaching. Telling them to hit it harder and where there aren't any defenders.

[Olerud363]

Probably better coaching. Telling them to hit it harder and where there aren't any defenders.

 

No one, as far as I know, is claiming that coaching can make a difference in a couple of weeks. It's more a long term thing on a scale of months and years.

 

Why do our beloved Blue Jays suck so much? Coaching? Scouting? Random chance? Something else?

 

Open to well thought out opinions in any direction.

 

Interesting that Atlanta which scored 950 runs last year might not score 700 this year... do their coach's suck now. Something else is at play?

 

Matt Olson is as frustrating as our hero, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Injuries? 11-dimensional chess with adjustments made by pitchers, then by Olson, then by Pitchers? I guess good coaching can help smooth out the latter.

[max silver]

So far, so good for the Mariner's trade deadline acquisitions. Turns out "scrubs" Arozarena and Turner are making a difference.

 

Arozarena last 7 days- .464 OBP / .609 SLG%

 

Turner - .375 OBP / .478 SLG%

 

Arozarena has been mashing for months and Turner had turned around his offensive game as well a few weeks prior to the trade as well.

[Spanky99]

So far, so good for the Mariner's trade deadline acquisitions. Turns out "scrubs" Arozarena and Turner are making a difference.

 

Arozarena last 7 days- .464 OBP / .609 SLG%

 

Turner - .375 OBP / .478 SLG%

 

Why are you quoting *scrubs*?

[Stangstag]

Why are you quoting *scrubs*?

 

There were a couple guys here saying the Mariners were wasting their time acquiring guys like Aroz and Turner instead of just “going for it”

 

A few of us said no, any upgrades are worth it and both guys were clear upgrades over the scrubs they were trotting out there before

[Carlos Danger]

Arozarena has been mashing for months and Turner had turned around his offensive game as well a few weeks prior to the trade as well.

 

Not according to Metafor.

[Spanky99]

There were a couple guys here saying the Mariners were wasting their time acquiring guys like Aroz and Turner instead of just “going for it”

 

A few of us said no, any upgrades are worth it and both guys were clear upgrades over the scrubs they were trotting out there before

 

I see, those were fine acquisitions, especially seeing what they gave up for them.

[Spanky99]

Not according to Metafor.

 

Ah yes, now I recall that, it was kind of a steal for the M's in those deals, Arozarena has been pounding the ball for months after the slow start. Turner is a streaky hitter as a plug and play when rolling.

[metafour]

There were a couple guys here saying the Mariners were wasting their time acquiring guys like Aroz and Turner instead of just “going for it”

 

A few of us said no, any upgrades are worth it and both guys were clear upgrades over the scrubs they were trotting out there before

 

That wasn't what was said at all. Neither I, nor anyone else stated that Arozarena wasn't an obvious upgrade to their roster.

 

The comment that was made was that those two trades supposedly proved that DiPoto wasn't "wasting his pitching". All I said was that Seattle could have done much more at the trade deadline, and trading for Arozarena and taking a pie in the sky gamble that 40 year old Justin Turner is going to get hot at the right time does not warrant patting DiPoto on the back for anything.

 

They lost 6-0 today and had 3 total hits. Its a little too early to celebrate Seattle's supposed offensive renaissance.

[Spanky99]

That wasn't what was said at all. Neither I, nor anyone else stated that Arozarena wasn't an obvious upgrade to their roster.

 

The comment that was made was that those two trades supposedly proved that DiPoto wasn't "wasting his pitching". All I said was that Seattle could have done much more at the trade deadline, and trading for Arozarena and taking a pie in the sky gamble that 40 year old Justin Turner is going to get hot at the right time does not warrant patting DiPoto on the back for anything.

 

They lost 6-0 today and had 3 total hits. Its a little too early to celebrate Seattle's supposed offensive renaissance.

 

You both had a point. Meh...

[Stangstag]

A few of your previous comments on the matter

 

Oh wow, they added Arozarena who is having his worst hitting season ever. You realize that he is a 110 wRC+ hitter this year, right?

 

If they cared as much as you are implying, why didn't they pony up more and trade for Isaac Paredes instead? You know, the far superior Rays hitter who was also available?

 

---

 

And I am telling you that they are NOT doing what they need to do.

 

Their offense is absolutely horrific. Adding Turner is pure desperation.

 

You never answered me: why didn't they ball-up and acquire Parades instead of Arozarena? THAT would be a difference-maker. Instead they are hoping that Arozarena who is hitting .215 is going to bounce back? Their offense is littered with .220 hitters already.

 

You're going on about how they are adding "proven playoff hitters" and yet they may not even make the playoffs.

 

---

 

Correct, they are terrible. Which means they need MUCH MORE than Arozarena and his 110 wRC+ little boy.

 

So obviously the big acquisition of Justin Turner is a game-changer. Dipoto really not wasting that pitching staff trollolol.

 

Maybe we can ship them George Springer next? Another proven playoff hitter for the ALL-IN Mariners!

 

Some truly unhinged comments. Both trades are fine. Not groundbreaking, but the Randy move was a sneaky get. These moves definitely help their offense for the rest of the year and possibly 2025 also.

[Spanky99]

lulz... if the PTBNL isn't from a top draft pick this season that's a comfortable steal.

 

Aidan Smith, Brody Hopkins and a PTBNL for 3 runs at a title is sick.

[Omar]

Pretty interesting video on former Padre and former Blue Jay prospect. Also if you don't watch the Jolly Olive youtube channel give it a go. Great baseball content, always interesting topics. My stamp of approval.

 

[jaysblue]

Trading for Arozarena was a very swift deal by the Mariners. Having a down year and started to heat up with the bat when they acquired him. He's capable of 3-4 WAR seasons, and is under control until 2027.

[Pendleton]

[Brownie19]

No one, as far as I know, is claiming that coaching can make a difference in a couple of weeks. It's more a long term thing on a scale of months and years.

 

Why do our beloved Blue Jays suck so much? Coaching? Scouting? Random chance? Something else?

 

Open to well thought out opinions in any direction.

 

Interesting that Atlanta which scored 950 runs last year might not score 700 this year... do their coach's suck now. Something else is at play?

 

Matt Olson is as frustrating as our hero, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Injuries? 11-dimensional chess with adjustments made by pitchers, then by Olson, then by Pitchers? I guess good coaching can help smooth out the latter.

 

People were definitely claiming that new coaching philosophy (Donny Baseball?) was a root cause of the offensive woes last year (and early this year). I agree with you - we have the same hitting coach we did when we were a top 3 offense in baseball in 2021-22. It makes absolutely no sense for him to implement massive changes. Nobody watches a team be an offensive juggernaut and goes "we should really change it all up and do the complete opposite". Now do they need to keep up to speed with new trends? Sure, it doesn't change so fast that you go from great to s*** in the matter of 6 months.

 

The Braves are another example of an offense that goes from great to s*** in the matter of a year for no apparent reason. There are all kinds of factors involved in something like that. Suggesting the coaches/FO are the primary reason and should all be fired because of it is just bizarre.

[John_Havok]

People were definitely claiming that new coaching philosophy (Donny Baseball?) was a root cause of the offensive woes last year (and early this year). I agree with you - we have the same hitting coach we did when we were a top 3 offense in baseball in 2021-22. It makes absolutely no sense for him to implement massive changes. Nobody watches a team be an offensive juggernaut and goes "we should really change it all up and do the complete opposite". Now do they need to keep up to speed with new trends? Sure, it doesn't change so fast that you go from great to s*** in the matter of 6 months.

 

The Braves are another example of an offense that goes from great to s*** in the matter of a year for no apparent reason. There are all kinds of factors involved in something like that. Suggesting the coaches/FO are the primary reason and should all be fired because of it is just bizarre.

 

I agree to a few of these points, but it's also part of that hitting coach's and his staff's job to identify the causes of, and solutions to players slipping into funks, especially whether it's a physical change, or a mental one; preferably before they go into season long slumps

 

I get there's variances and sometimes stuff just doesn't fall in for a week or two at a time, but guys like Vlad, Bo, Varsho, Kirk...all these guys have gone through stuff that isn't just explained away by a few weeks of random noise.

 

Injury probably also a factor for Bo, but a few calf issues don't sink you from a 5 WAR guy to replacement level.

[Stangstag]

Trading for Arozarena was a very swift deal by the Mariners. Having a down year and started to heat up with the bat when they acquired him. He's capable of 3-4 WAR seasons, and is under control until 2027.

 

Agreed

[Brownie19]

I agree to a few of these points, but it's also part of that hitting coach's and his staff's job to identify the causes of, and solutions to players slipping into funks, especially whether it's a physical change, or a mental one; preferably before they go into season long slumps

 

I get there's variances and sometimes stuff just doesn't fall in for a week or two at a time, but guys like Vlad, Bo, Varsho, Kirk...all these guys have gone through stuff that isn't just explained away by a few weeks of random noise.

 

Injury probably also a factor for Bo, but a few calf issues don't sink you from a 5 WAR guy to replacement level.

 

1. You're assuming all players accept guidance and direction from the team's coaching staff. This isn't true. It's not true in baseball or hockey from what I've read and heard. It's known that the Jays have flown in Vlad's team of relatives because he generally refuses to entertain suggestions from the Jays. To what level? I'm not 100% sure, but definitely mechanics related. I'm not entirely sure if this is still the case, or if Vlad has opened more recently. There are lots of professional athletes who only "trust" a select few (those who they've had success with in the past).

 

2. AA was on the Fan 590 a few months ago and when asked about their offensive woes, he said "if we knew what was wrong, we'd have fixed it already". I mean I guess you could conclude that AA and his coaching staff are all just "bad coaches" because they can't identify and/or fix the issue...but I somehow doubt that's true. To me, that was more clear evidence that A LOT of his is outside of the coaches control. The last time I raised this, I was told "it's just a SSS"....but the Braves offense has actually gotten worse and AA is now so desperate for a solution to their offensive struggles that he had to go trade for a 2nd fulltime DH in Soler.

 

I simply think the impact of hitting and pitching coaches (along with all their supplemental coaches) is a lot less than most fans believe. I also say this as someone who's EXTREMELY passionate about coaching.

[L54]

1. You're assuming all players accept guidance and direction from the team's coaching staff. This isn't true. It's not true in baseball or hockey from what I've read and heard. It's known that the Jays have flown in Vlad's team of relatives because he generally refuses to entertain suggestions from the Jays. To what level? I'm not 100% sure, but definitely mechanics related. I'm not entirely sure if this is still the case, or if Vlad has opened more recently. There are lots of professional athletes who only "trust" a select few (those who they've had success with in the past).

 

2. AA was on the Fan 590 a few months ago and when asked about their offensive woes, he said "if we knew what was wrong, we'd have fixed it already". I mean I guess you could conclude that AA and his coaching staff are all just "bad coaches" because they can't identify and/or fix the issue...but I somehow doubt that's true. To me, that was more clear evidence that A LOT of his is outside of the coaches control. The last time I raised this, I was told "it's just a SSS"....but the Braves offense has actually gotten worse and AA is now so desperate for a solution to their offensive struggles that he had to go trade for a 2nd fulltime DH in Soler.

 

I simply think the impact of hitting and pitching coaches (along with all their supplemental coaches) is a lot less than most fans believe. I also say this as someone who's EXTREMELY passionate about coaching.

 

The responsibility has to fall on somebody. If not coaches then who?

[Brownie19]

The responsibility has to fall on somebody. If not coaches then who?

 

How about the players themselves? I don't understand why fans wouldn't start there.

Edited August 5, 2024 by Brownie19

[Brownie19]

I've told this before, but I know one of the Leafs skating coaches quite well. He says there are SEVERAL players who refuse to work with team officials. He says he sees videos of those players skating with other "personal" coaches and he sees them ignoring their weaknesses all the time. Most of them just want "yes men" who just tell them what they want to hear because they don't want to hear the truth. He also sees all kinds of pros who don't put in the time and effort to get the most out of their abilities. They get into booze, drugs, girls, etc.

 

He says at the end of the day, it's up to the players and there's only so much he can do. I can't imagine how annoying it must be to hear fans screaming "fire the assistant coaches" when the team isn't having success.

 

I'm pretty sure this similar experience spans across several different professional sports.

[L54]

How about the players themselves? I don't understand why fans wouldn't start there.

 

And what happens when the players fail and there is no one around to help?

[Stangstag]

I've told this before, but I know one of the Leafs skating coaches quite well. He says there are SEVERAL players who refuse to work with team officials. He says he sees videos of those players skating with other "personal" coaches and he sees them ignoring their weaknesses all the time. Most of them just want "yes men" who just tell them what they want to hear because they don't want to hear the truth. He also sees all kinds of pros who don't put in the time and effort to get the most out of their abilities. They get into booze, drugs, girls, etc.

 

He says at the end of the day, it's up to the players and there's only so much he can do. I can't imagine how annoying it must be to hear fans screaming "fire the assistant coaches" when the team isn't having success.

 

I'm pretty sure this similar experience spans across several different professional sports.

 

Fair enough, but baseball is undeniably a more analytically-driven sport and there’s likely way more guys talking in the players’ ears.

 

End of the day we can only go off results, and results have not been good since Don Mattingly became involved with the coaching staff.

[L54]

Fair enough, but baseball is undeniably a more analytically-driven sport and there’s likely way more guys talking in the players’ ears.

 

End of the day we can only go off results, and results have not been good since Don Mattingly became involved with the coaching staff.

 

I just hate these types of posts because it’s impossible to be wrong

 

Well I know a guy who said this so it has to be true

 

Of course every player has their own “go to” coach whether that’s their dad, brother, or someone they’ve built a trust with

 

But what is the coaches job ultimately? The performance of the team. And if the team is under performing there will be calls to be replaced! Shocking I know. To sit and say well we don’t know how much influence they or if anyone listens to them so it doesn’t make sense to fire them is hog wash

 

Maybe players not listening to certain people says more about that person than the players themselves