Jays Re-Sign KK to a 1/10.5 Deal

[jaysblue]

I love the KK signing. The Jays needed a strong defensive 4th outfielder who could cover CF and who could start a couple times per week if needed, which most likely is the case. Still should be good for 1.5 - 2 WAR. Will be interesting to see what other outfielder the Jays bring in to play LF or to split time with KK in CF.

 

I know some posters including myself preferred having Varsho starting in CF and most likely I think he should be given the chance everyday to play in CF. KK will play some CF as well, but I hope Varsho is the main guy at least since he's younger and under club control for another 3 years. Regardless, Varsho needs to hit better period whether he plays in CF or LF. At the end of the day, Varsho is hitting either #7-9 in the lineup, which will be fine.

 

I think the Jays will land one of the DH bats - Hoskins or JDM or maybe Turner. They could afford paying Hoskins or JDM around $20M on a one-year deal. Turner wouldn't be a bad option if you can't sign Hoskins and JDM and as mentioned could play some 3B if need be.

 

I still think the trade market is the best route to bringing in a third baseman.

[MikeM3]

I love the KK signing. The Jays needed a strong defensive 4th outfielder who could cover CF and who could start a couple times per week if needed, which most likely is the case. Still should be good for 1.5 - 2 WAR. Will be interesting to see what other outfielder the Jays bring in to play LF or to split time with KK in CF.

 

I know some posters including myself preferred having Varsho starting in CF and most likely I think he should be given the chance everyday to play in CF. KK will play some CF as well, but I hope Varsho is the main guy at least since he's younger and under club control for another 3 years. Regardless, Varsho needs to hit better period whether he plays in CF or LF. At the end of the day, Varsho is hitting either #7-9 in the lineup, which will be fine.

 

I think the Jays will land one of the DH bats - Hoskins or JDM or maybe Turner. They could afford paying Hoskins or JDM around $20M on a one-year deal. Turner wouldn't be a bad option if you can't sign Hoskins and JDM and as mentioned could play some 3B if need be.

 

I still think the trade market is the best route to bringing in a third baseman.

 

Michael Taylor will be the 4th OF

[wilko]

The best #9 hitter in baseball!

[saskjayfan]

Kiermaier's projection on Steamer is weirdly light

 

If he's only providing 1 WAR it's probably because he has a major injury

 

Varsho has had an xwoba of .298 and .302 the previous 2 years and somehow steamer expects a .322 woba from Varsho next year. KK's getting the massive old guy regression from Steamer. I fully expect KK to be the better player next year. The league has adjusted to Varsho more than he's adjusting to pitching. He has major holes in that swing.

[BatFlip]

I think he gave the Jays a number, and a deadline. If they didn't make that he would start talking to other teams. KK wanted to be a Jay again this year.

 

It's possible and I think you're right that he fit in really well with the team this year and had fun.

 

I also don't think there was a market out there that was willing to give a 2 to 3 year deal to a 34 year old who heavily relies on his defense in CF to contribute value. I'm hoping he stays healthy and I'm looking forward to see him rob some mfers in the outfield this year.

[saskjayfan]

I love the KK signing. The Jays needed a strong defensive 4th outfielder who could cover CF and who could start a couple times per week if needed, which most likely is the case. Still should be good for 1.5 - 2 WAR. Will be interesting to see what other outfielder the Jays bring in to play LF or to split time with KK in CF.

 

I know some posters including myself preferred having Varsho starting in CF and most likely I think he should be given the chance everyday to play in CF. KK will play some CF as well, but I hope Varsho is the main guy at least since he's younger and under club control for another 3 years. Regardless, Varsho needs to hit better period whether he plays in CF or LF. At the end of the day, Varsho is hitting either #7-9 in the lineup, which will be fine.

 

I think the Jays will land one of the DH bats - Hoskins or JDM or maybe Turner. They could afford paying Hoskins or JDM around $20M on a one-year deal. Turner wouldn't be a bad option if you can't sign Hoskins and JDM and as mentioned could play some 3B if need be.

 

I still think the trade market is the best route to bringing in a third baseman.

 

Who are you trading for in the 3rd baseman market? There isn't anyone except Suarez. You better get on in quickly. I can't see Houston giving up Bregman. Machado would be nice if they ate half of the contract left, but that's probably not happening.

[Jimcanuck]

Who are you trading for in the 3rd baseman market? There isn't anyone except Suarez. You better get on in quickly. I can't see Houston giving up Bregman. Machado would be nice if they ate half of the contract left, but that's probably not happening.

 

How do you know there isn't anyone?

[Spanky99]

Who are you trading for in the 3rd baseman market? There isn't anyone except Suarez. You better get on in quickly. I can't see Houston giving up Bregman. Machado would be nice if they ate half of the contract left, but that's probably not happening.

 

Suarez?

[saskjayfan]

Michael Taylor will be the 4th OF

 

well that's not going to help me drink less in 2024.

[Spanky99]

I wouldn’t count captain Morgan as a reliable source

 

So 2 members have put their reputation on the line that IKF and Jose Ramirez deals are imminent. Can we give them the morosi treatment? No further posting allowed by spanky or French soup if these deals don’t come to fruition?

 

Fair If Spanky is wrong about IKF he is banned for life. I will give him an opportunity to tell us the terms and if he is right, you can never report, reply to, or mention Spanky again. Deal?

 

So how's this going to shake out? Pusso been on here all day and logged out at the time of the correct player/term and money. Fool.

[Dick_Pole]

A bunch of wannabe bean counters in here.

 

"Devaluing Varsho as an asset" is not a relevant argument to make. The Jays are trying to win and put the best team on the field. If that involves Kiermaier being in CF and Varsho being in LF, then that's the configuration the team should go with. If that negatively impacts Varsho's WAR or RC+ or whatever in some way, then that's just an indictment of the weakness of the nerd stats. Any front office worth a damn would have figured this out years ago and wouldn't use these stats as gospel in valuing Varsho. If anything, it might help the Jays in lowering an arbitration number because that s*** is always about a decade behind in determining the fair value of a player.

[max silver]

Varsho has had an xwoba of .298 and .302 the previous 2 years and somehow steamer expects a .322 woba from Varsho next year. KK's getting the massive old guy regression from Steamer. I fully expect KK to be the better player next year. The league has adjusted to Varsho more than he's adjusting to pitching. He has major holes in that swing.

 

Kiermaier posted exactly the same xWOBA as Varsho last season but you aren't whining about how bad KK is.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Kiermaier posted exactly the same xWOBA as Varsho last season but you aren't whining about how bad KK is.

 

Same fWAR too, and Varsho is way cheaper.

 

People just can't get over them trading Moreno for him I guess. Atkins has traded away so many prospects over the last 4 years or so, and Moreno is pretty much the only one that has even shown a flicker of maybe doing something at the MLB level and yet Atkins just gets raked for it because Varsho only had a league average bat last season lol

 

I mean there is one guy here that keeps saying the jays should fire Varsho into the sun despite the fact that he is the Jays highest projected fWAR outfielder. SMH

[Key22]

I think the main problem with Shatkins is all the talk about a sustainable winner when you have a pedestrian team with a $230m payroll, and a bottom 5 farm. There is nothing in the minor that is going to transform the team on offense.

 

That leaves dumpster diving or doing out huge money to iffy players like Chapman and Bellinger.

 

Chapman is not a big bat. Bellinger is a huge risk. IKF replaced the gloves at third, and can sub an injury to Bo. He can't hit but then I'd rather pay 7million a year to IKF who can't hit than 180m to Chapman who can't hit.

 

The Jays have to take it on the chin for 2024. Build a better farm, wait until next free agent class. Hope the pitching gets you through. Hope Vlad doesn't s*** the bed again. Hope Springer isn't cooked.

[Laika]

The Rangers were starting Robbie Grossman and won the world series

 

The Dodgers traded for Kike Hernandez last year

 

You're a homer and navel gazer if you think the Jays are "dumpster diving"

 

Every good team in baseball signs guys like this

 

The Braves have Forrest Wall and David Fletcher on their projected bench

[Abomination]

The Braves have Forrest Wall and David Fletcher on their projected bench

 

The Braves outrighted Fletcher from the 40 man and there were no takers. Forrest Wall is pre-arbitration and is probably basically Cam Eden. I'm not sure that's a ringing endorsement for the idea of paying IKF that kind of money.

 

Hell, I'd (almost) rather stick Vladdy back at 3rd and sign a big bat at 1st before doing this.

[Laika]

The Braves outrighted Fletcher from the 40 man and there were no takers. Forrest Wall is pre-arbitration and is probably basically Cam Eden. I'm not sure that's a ringing endorsement for the idea of paying IKF that kind of money.

 

Hell, I'd (almost) rather stick Vladdy back at 3rd and sign a big bat at 1st before doing this.

 

7.5m AAV is.... almost nothing

 

Jays are a big market team. That's reliever money. Who cares?

 

They probably think he can be worth 1.5 wins in maybe 450 PA if used correctly.

[Key22]

Nothing wrong with IKF but Texas ALSO gave out massive contracts to Seager, Semien, and picked up expensive starting pitchers and had people to trade.

 

The Jays did the right thing by trying to land the best player in baseball. Amd they will be doing the right thing if they avoid long albatross contracts to Bellinger and Chapman.

 

The reality is the Jays are a pitching and defense team. What they need is star power all around players who can hit and play defense. There are none available via free agency and the Jays do not have trade chips to get it done. Well unless they trade Tidemann but that would probably be a mistake.

 

The Jays could do what AA is doing and trading for bad contracts and get a player they actually want.

[max silver]

Same fWAR too, and Varsho is way cheaper.

 

People just can't get over them trading Moreno for him I guess. Atkins has traded away so many prospects over the last 4 years or so, and Moreno is pretty much the only one that has even shown a flicker of maybe doing something at the MLB level and yet Atkins just gets raked for it because Varsho only had a league average bat last season lol

 

I mean there is one guy here that keeps saying the jays should fire Varsho into the sun despite the fact that he is the Jays highest projected fWAR outfielder. SMH

 

It bugs me that Varsho puts up 100 and 107 wRC+ values in his first two seasons as a regular but has a single tough season at 85 wRC+ while underperforming his expected stats by 10 points and now he's a bum that can't hit and never will hit. Moreno plays his first season and produces a 103 wRC+ while overperforming his own expected stats by 11 points and he's suddenly a star. The two players had really similar seasons in which each primarily produced their value with their respective gloves, and the offensive inputs were really close with a .314 xWOBA for Moreno vs a .303 xWOBA for Varsho. Some people just refuse to recognize how similar their respective value was due to the fact that Moreno still has the top prospect luster that's since worn off from Varsho.

[Dick_Pole]

The Varsho for Moreno trade gets brought up over and over because it's a stand-in scapegoat for the issues that fans find most irritating about the team's performance under Atkins. If Moreno wins MVP, but the Jays win the World Series (or at least a playoff round or even game), no one talks about this trade.

 

Except for 2020, the Jays have been bitterly disappointing. They have been passed by the Orioles and the Rangers, two teams frequently mocked by the fan base over the past decade. And those teams made it look so, so easy. We as fans have had this idea drilled into our heads that the "window" ends when the six years of owning Guerrero and Bichette are up (as if either have proven to be must-have leaders on a championship team). You hear stuff about heart or team culture or conditioning. Meanwhile the team has made changes to the culture and there are plenty of fat asses in the history of baseball who were top performers and winners.

 

You can't really point to anything terribly wrong that Atkins has done. At least as an outsider looking in. He's just another off-putting weenie who sucks at drafting and developing home grown talent, like Ricciardi. So in lieu of having a coherent thesis on why the guy should be canned, raging about the Varsho trade as the outcome of a broken system becomes the go-to for frustrated fans.

 

Why people who type out paragraphs defending the trade as not as bad as it seems don't realize this by now, is beyond me.

[wamco]

Whatever they have me do, I'm going to do it, obviously," said the Indiana native, whose next move will be calling up his Toronto real estate agent to see if the Forest Hill house he rented this year is on the market again. "But I'm going to work to play as much as I can, be an everyday player out there in centre field. That's what I'm going to try to do, but wherever they want to plug me in or use me, I'm all for it -KK

[Stangstag]

It bugs me that Varsho puts up 100 and 107 wRC+ values in his first two seasons as a regular but has a single tough season at 85 wRC+ while underperforming his expected stats by 10 points and now he's a bum that can't hit and never will hit. Moreno plays his first season and produces a 103 wRC+ while overperforming his own expected stats by 11 points and he's suddenly a star. The two players had really similar seasons in which each primarily produced their value with their respective gloves, and the offensive inputs were really close with a .314 xWOBA for Moreno vs a .303 xWOBA for Varsho. Some people just refuse to recognize how similar their respective value was due to the fact that Moreno still has the top prospect luster that's since worn off from Varsho.

 

Thank you.

 

If Varsho sucks again next season then sure, bring on the hate. But at worst, Varsho is Kevin Pillar on his best day.

 

People are over-hating on Varsho because we traded Moreno for him, plain and simple. Varsho is still a solid player.

[Stangstag]

The Varsho for Moreno trade gets brought up over and over because it's a stand-in scapegoat for the issues that fans find most irritating about the team's performance under Atkins. If Moreno wins MVP, but the Jays win the World Series (or at least a playoff round or even game), no one talks about this trade.

 

Except for 2020, the Jays have been bitterly disappointing. They have been passed by the Orioles and the Rangers, two teams frequently mocked by the fan base over the past decade. And those teams made it look so, so easy. We as fans have had this idea drilled into our heads that the "window" ends when the six years of owning Guerrero and Bichette are up (as if either have proven to be must-have leaders on a championship team). You hear stuff about heart or team culture or conditioning. Meanwhile the team has made changes to the culture and there are plenty of fat asses in the history of baseball who were top performers and winners.

 

You can't really point to anything terribly wrong that Atkins has done. At least as an outsider looking in. He's just another off-putting weenie who sucks at drafting and developing home grown talent, like Ricciardi. So in lieu of having a coherent thesis on why the guy should be canned, raging about the Varsho trade as the outcome of a broken system becomes the go-to for frustrated fans.

 

Why people who type out paragraphs defending the trade as not as bad as it seems don't realize this by now, is beyond me.

 

I think you’re severely underestimating the number of absolute f***ing whiners that exist on this forum and in this fanbase.

[Spanky99]

[Sorrow]

I'm assuming none of the teams that play on grass felt KK was worth what KK thinks KK is worth.

 

He wants a ring and this is likely the best team that had an opening for him to get decent playing time and him and his wife like the city a lot.

 

My understanding is he left money on the table to come back.

[wilko]

They can't even win their division let alone a World Series.

 

[Stangstag]

They can't even win their division let alone a World Series.

 

Rangers didn’t win their division… neither did Arizona and they came close last year.

[JaysAllMighty]

The Rangers and Astros tied in the AL West while the Blue Jays were 12 games behind in the AL East... The Blue Jays are also 0-6 in their last three Wild Card series appearances.

 

Can you tell me why you post here since you hate the Jays so much. You should troll some other teams.

[Eat My Shatkins]

They can't even win their division let alone a World Series.

 

They won their division once in the last 30 years and are 0-6 in their last 3 Post Season appearances.

 

The Rangers and Astros tied in the AL West while the Blue Jays were 12 games behind in the AL East... The Blue Jays are also 0-6 in their last three Wild Card series appearances.

 

Hey everybody at BJMB, did you guys all know this?!?! I don't think anybody here knew this thanks for letting us know. I mean, we all just became Blue Jays fans yesterday you f***ing dipshit. Thank god you're here now to give us all a history lesson. Too bad for KK that he didn't consult a genius like you before he took less money to sign with the Jays because apparently the Jays are 0-6 in their last three wild card series.

 

f***ing too many idiots around here, my god.

[Carlos Danger]

What did Shoot me Straight get banned for??