Jays Re-Sign KK to a 1/10.5 Deal

[wamco]

Agreed that the FA class sucks but I'm still hoping we land 2 of Teo, Solar or JDM, Chapman. Teo and JDM shouldn't cost us much and would greatly improve the offense.

 

RF Springer

SS Bo

1B Vlad

DH JDM

LF Teo

C Kirk/Jansen

CF KK/Varsho

3B cheap FA or one of the AAA guys

2B Biggio/Schneider

 

Absolutely sucks that our best 6 hitters are all Right Handed but I'd rather have that than settle for a crappier Left Handed bat for the sake of lineup balance.

 

Remember 2 seasons ago when our lineup was so unbalanced and we had a better offense and won 92 games? That was ok. I mean not as good as when we balanced it and won 89 games though. That was a fun season

[wamco]

Projects to be barely worse than the Yankees and everyone is slobbing their knobs after their offseason. But yeah it still has good payroll flexibility so there is more that could be done if you desire.

 

In your situation, you implied that was the end of jays off season spending or so I had assumed. But compared it to yanks roster on December 26th.

[wamco]

Also, don't forget that we brought back Chad Green. In the 5 seasons prior to his injury he was the 5th best reliever in baseball in terms of WAR.

 

I’d love to see that list as his best 5 season stretch had 2 seasons with an era over 5

[deanmike]

I actually would not mind an IKF bargain bin addition for 3B instead of overpaying to bring back Matt Chapman. From what I've seen IKF's defensive numbers at 3B check out across the board, although his bat sucks so it would be another run prevention add. His ultra utility is very appealing in general though.

[wamco]

Also, don't forget that we brought back Chad Green. In the 5 seasons prior to his injury he was the 5th best reliever in baseball in terms of WAR.

 

I’d love to see that list as his best 5 season stretch had 2 seasons with an era over 5

[Terminator]

I’d love to see that list as his best 5 season stretch had 2 seasons with an era over 5

 

Here you go bud. Tied with Blake Treinen for 5th.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&month=0&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&players=0&startdate=&enddate=&season1=2017&season=2021&stats=rel

 

He might still be elite. At the very least he should still be very good.

[wamco]

IKF SUX

 

Fangraphs gave him a -.2 on D last year for what it’s worth.

 

 

I hope the public debacle with Ohtani loosens the purse strings a bit more than planned. Prob wishful thinking

[max silver]

Feel like Varsho should be used as a backup Catcher.

 

It’s almost inevitable either KK or Jansen will go down for at least a month. If you could plug Varsho into either of those spots he’s a very valuable piece even if the bat sucks again.

 

Varsho wasn't a great defender behind the plate compared to the elite outfield defence he offers. Moving him behind the plate likely reduces his outfield effectiveness and opens up greater possibility to injury as well.

[wamco]

Here you go bud. Tied with Blake Treinen for 5th.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&month=0&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&players=0&startdate=&enddate=&season1=2017&season=2021&stats=rel

 

He might still be elite. At the very least he should still be very good.

 

Oh TIED for 5th. That makes a lot more sense.

 

.4 more WAR than iglesias with very similar numbers despite down 136-9 in saves

 

 

I did always favor the 3 year option over

The 2 year option

[max silver]

Oh thank god. Great signing for 2024. He’s my CF

 

Sign Soler and another bat for LF and fire Varsho into the sun.

 

Why the f*** should the team fire Varsho into the sun? Please tell me you aren't actually this dumb. The guy is projected for 3 wins, has averaged 3 wins in his career when prorated to an entire season's worth of plate appearances, is inexpensive and has a lot of remaining years of control. He legitimately might be MLB's best outfield defenders, but apparently after a single down season at the plate he should be "fired into the sun". For f***s sakes stuff like this just makes you look like a complete ignoramus.

[Terminator]

IKF SUX

 

Fangraphs gave him a -.2 on D last year for what it’s worth.

 

 

I hope the public debacle with Ohtani loosens the purse strings a bit more than planned. Prob wishful thinking

 

Well that's worth almost nothing because the Yankees inexplicably played him 85 games in the OF last year (where he had never logged a single inning before) and only 34 in the infield (where he's pretty darn good). That skewed his defensive numbers big time.

[Terminator]

Oh TIED for 5th. That makes a lot more sense.

 

.4 more WAR than iglesias with very similar numbers despite down 136-9 in saves

 

 

I did always favor the 3 year option over

The 2 year option

 

Well the hell crawled up your ass today? Did you get a lump of coal yesterday?

[max silver]

It isn't very sexy but with a good bench, elite defense and very good rotation and bullpen it probably gets them to the trade deadline in contention while keeping all of their prospects and having good payroll flexibility moving forward.

 

The free agent class sucks and there just aren't many sellers right now to do a trade at a position like 3B. I think more of them will pop up come the trade deadline.

 

Based on how last season's trade deadline came and went without any offensive additions it seems like a foolish strategy to create a lineup that you know has a lot of holes in hopes of shoring it up at the trade deadline.

[G-Snarls]

Perfectly happy to have him back on a 1 year deal

 

But definitely need to add a big bat at another spot for sure

[Terminator]

Based on how last season's trade deadline came and went without any offensive additions it seems like a foolish strategy to create a lineup that you know has a lot of holes in hopes of shoring it up at the trade deadline.

 

Lol that's one way of putting it. I think I'd describe it as cheap but serviceable options that maintain payroll flexibility to make future moves. Perhaps some prices come down later this offseason, maybe we could do something at the trade deadline, or maybe we dip into the FA class next year. Also buys us some time to get more looks at Barger, Orelvis and Palmagiani to see if they could be an answer at 3B.

 

All of that seems far less foolish than giving an 8 year deal to a guy who projects for a 2.4 WAR next year. Now that seems like the most FOOLISH strategy of all, Max.

[max silver]

Lol that's one way of putting it. I think I'd describe it as cheap but serviceable options that maintain payroll flexibility to make future moves. Perhaps some prices come down later this offseason, maybe the trade deadline or even the FA class next year.

 

All of that seems far less foolish than giving an 8 year deal to a guy who projects for a 2.4 WAR next year. Now that seems like the most FOOLISH strategy of all, Max.

 

I don't hate the Kiermaier signing but I'm far from a fan. This creates a roster with two guys that basically have the same strengths and weaknesses as elite center fielders who need to be shielded from tough lefties, while also reducing the potential impact of Varsho if he's forced to spend most of his time in a corner outfield spot again. I think Kiermaier is going to be in really tough to recreate last season's offensive numbers, and this is starting to make me fear that the team is largely going to run back last year's roster as a Chapman reunion is feeling more and more likely. I guess the team still needs another outfielder so perhaps a bat first type can be brought aboard and a good DH could still make for a decent offseason as well.

 

I certainly wouldn't give the 2.4 WAR projected guy 8 years either. I also don't think he's going to receive this type of deal based on the question marks his offensive profile entails. If his market eventually forces him to settle for something more akin to a contract which aligns to the 3-4 win realistic upside he offers I'd be interested in bringing him aboard.

[wamco]

Well the hell crawled up your ass today? Did you get a lump of coal yesterday?

 

 

I’m not sure what you mean. I made a joke saying “oh tied for 5th”. I appreciated the link and enjoyed looking it over as I really have never compared 5 year stats of relief pitchers and enjoyed looking over the nuances of the numbers and simply noted it was surprising iglesias was worth less war despite 136-9 edge in saves

[wamco]

Well that's worth almost nothing because the Yankees inexplicably played him 85 games in the OF last year (where he had never logged a single inning before) and only 34 in the infield (where he's pretty darn good). That skewed his defensive numbers big time.

 

I didn’t know that. Don’t catch a lot of yanks games as I despise them

[Jimcanuck]

Elite defense Ala Jays 2023.

 

Just one run playoffs 2023

 

This. Mediocre teams sometimes eek into the playoffs and when they do, they sputter.

[Jimcanuck]

I would like to point out that Kiermaier is projected for a wRC+ of 88 and will be 34 yrs old.

 

Let's not plan the parade just yet.

[glory]

I want absolutely no part of Matt Chapman on a long term deal, but the thought of IKF at 3B might change my mind.

[Terminator]

I don't hate the Kiermaier signing but I'm far from a fan. This creates a roster with two guys that basically have the same strengths and weaknesses as elite center fielders who need to be shielded from tough lefties, while also reducing the potential impact of Varsho if he's forced to spend most of his time in a corner outfield spot again. I think Kiermaier is going to be in really tough to recreate last season's offensive numbers, and this is starting to make me fear that the team is largely going to run back last year's roster as a Chapman reunion is feeling more and more likely. I guess the team still needs another outfielder so perhaps a bat first type can be brought aboard and a good DH could still make for a decent offseason as well.

 

I certainly wouldn't give the 2.4 WAR projected guy 8 years either. I also don't think he's going to receive this type of deal based on the question marks his offensive profile entails. If his market eventually forces him to settle for something more akin to a contract which aligns to the 3-4 win realistic upside he offers I'd be interested in bringing him aboard.

 

Ok I hear ya. I think the KK and IKF signings (I trust Spanky) raise the floor for us.

 

But they also don't preclude us from signing Bellinger or Chapman should their prices drop. Say Bellinger does 5 years and Chapman does 4 then we could still be in on them.

[Terminator]

I’m not sure what you mean. I made a joke saying “oh tied for 5th”. I appreciated the link and enjoyed looking it over as I really have never compared 5 year stats of relief pitchers and enjoyed looking over the nuances of the numbers and simply noted it was surprising iglesias was worth less war despite 136-9 edge in saves

 

My bad I didn't catch the joke but I get it now. Cheers.

[L54]

This. Mediocre teams sometimes eek into the playoffs and when they do, they sputter.

 

Jim please respond. Weren’t you driver of the “just make the playoffs and anything can happen” narrative. What has changed?

[wamco]

It’s the first step in the puzzle so I’ll reserve judgment until puzzle

Is complete at end of the off-season.

 

Initial thought is simply that KK most likely will be a good value but not

The best fit for this team as he is redundant with varsho and we need much more pop so I’m hopeful 3b/dh/4th OF can provide this

[Jimcanuck]

Jim please respond. Weren’t you driver of the “just make the playoffs and anything can happen” narrative. What has changed?

 

No I was not. I was the driver of the "playoffs success is 50% team quality and 50% luck"

[L54]

It’s the first step in the puzzle so I’ll reserve judgment until puzzle

Is complete at end of the off-season.

 

Initial thought is simply that KK most likely will be a good value but not

The best fit for this team as he is redundant with varsho and we need much more pop so I’m hopeful 3b/dh/4th OF can provide this

 

Agreed

[L54]

No I was not. I was the driver of the "playoffs success is 50% team quality and 50% luck"

 

50% luck is still a lot, better off just to squeak in

[Sorrow]

I’m trying to find a text or a tweet or something but a few weeks ago I thought I read that the Jays were likely to get KK again because another org wants Varsho and the Jays were open to moving him.

 

I just can’t find anything in a short search so maybe it’s not something I read who knows.

[Frenchsoup]

I hope we don't move Varsh