General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Eat My Shatkins]

How long is the fan base going to pretend like the Jays didn't try to help the offense this off season?

 

Does anyone remember them throwing $600 million + at the biggest bat out there? He picked somewhere else.

 

You need two to tango.

[AMS528]

How long is the fan base going to pretend like the Jays didn't try to help the offense this off season?

 

Does anyone remember them throwing $600 million + at the biggest bat out there? He picked somewhere else.

 

You need two to tango.

 

It's good that they tried to get Ohtani. He was always a longshot and likely to go to LA which is why they were the heavy betting favorites from day one.

 

Which means reasonably that should not have been, and I strongly assume would not have been the only option they were relying on. What matters is ultimately the moves that they did get done, and that is what they will be graded on. The success of those moves.

[Eat My Shatkins]

It's good that they tried to get Ohtani. He was always a longshot and likely to go to LA which is why they were the heavy betting favorites from day one.

 

Which means reasonably that should not have been, and I strongly assume would not have been the only option they were relying on. What matters is ultimately the moves that they did get done, and that is what they will be graded on. The success of those moves.

 

For sure but it annoys me that so many people talk about the FO like they sat on their hands. If you believe the chatter they were in on everyone but in the end you can't MAKE anybody sign with you and you sure as f*** don't want to hand out a bunch of s***** contracts to marginal players just because they were the best this weak free agent class had to offer.

 

I do wish they had landed Soto, but that came with huge risk too because you're giving up tons of prospect capital and probably only getting him for one year anyways.

[connorp]

Not even trolling, I thought Kirk would be good but honestly now I don’t think he’s anything. Not as bad as now but league average nat maybe tiny bit more, worst Bsr in baseball, and I bet the D numbers become a little more realistic

[connorp]

For sure but it annoys me that so many people talk about the FO like they sat on their hands. If you believe the chatter they were in on everyone but in the end you can't MAKE anybody sign with you and you sure as f*** don't want to hand out a bunch of s***** contracts to marginal players just because they were the best this weak free agent class had to offer.

 

I do wish they had landed Soto, but that came with huge risk too because you're giving up tons of prospect capital and probably only getting him for one year anyways.

 

They’d have their hand in every single FA and trade target. This is their team. Ohtani shouldn’t even be talked about. His final choices were all Cali teams. He always had the same plan. 20 teams at least prob sign him to those terms. It was never going to happen. It’s just how the Jays do business in the media. Teams like NYY and Bos would’ve given that deal all day long, they wised up long before the Jays and moved on. Jays staying in it did nothing make dudes like you talk about how close they came and that they really tried

[Eat My Shatkins]

They’d have their hand in every single FA and trade target. This is their team. Ohtani shouldn’t even be talked about. His final choices were all Cali teams. He always had the same plan. 20 teams at least prob sign him to those terms. It was never going to happen. It’s just how the Jays do business in the media. Teams like NYY and Bos would’ve given that deal all day long, they wised up long before the Jays and moved on. Jays staying in it did nothing make dudes like you talk about how close they came and that they really tried

 

They did have their hand in every FA and trade target if you believe the chatter.

 

Other than Soto it was a bunch of crap piled on top of crap and some of it didn't even want to come to Toronto anyways.

[hanton]

They did have their hand in every FA and trade target if you believe the chatter.

 

Other than Soto it was a bunch of crap piled on top of crap and some of it didn't even want to come to Toronto anyways.

 

Ohtani wasn't coming here it was all LA from the start up until they signed him, Friedman spent the past 2 season shedding slary in preparation for signing ohtani

[hanton]

I mean, of course it’s been talked about to death, but if the franchise really goes belly up, that Varsho trade was undoubtedly the “jump the shark” moment. They were a definite playoff team and their plan to get to the next level, was to collect DWAR and be willing to sacrifice O.

 

Varsho was coming off a 4.8 fwar season - they expected a star

[BCZ]

"Revamped Rogers Centre set to wow Blue Jays fans" <-- I'd prefer if they hit the baseball instead

[Eat My Shatkins]

Ohtani wasn't coming here it was all LA from the start up until they signed him, Friedman spent the past 2 season shedding slary in preparation for signing ohtani

 

No s***, we all know this

[hanton]

No s***, we all know this

 

including Atkins

[Eat My Shatkins]

including Atkins

 

So?

[Jays333]

I mean, of course it’s been talked about to death, but if the franchise really goes belly up, that Varsho trade was undoubtedly the “jump the shark” moment. They were a definite playoff team and their plan to get to the next level, was to collect DWAR and be willing to sacrifice O.

 

Agreed, its the decisive point I think where a lot of the fanbase who were on Shatkins side turned real quick. LGJ has become an even better hitter than he was here, plus we traded the number 1 catching prospect in the league arguably a top 3 position in all baseball. And he looks great in ARI. While we got...Varsho. An excellent outfield defender with a pool noodle bat. I also think losing LGJ and Teo had an effect on the "Barrio" that is not a measurable stat. Something just clicked when they we here that offense was fearsome.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Everybody likes to forget the circus outfield defense that cost us in the wild card series two years ago vs the Mariners.

 

Jays sacrificed some hitting for defense, won pretty much the same amount of games and got swept in the wild card again.

 

If the Jays had kept that s***** D together, won around 90 games and gotten beat because of D in the wild card again the same people would be complaining that they didn't make changes.

[Stangstag]

How long is the fan base going to pretend like the Jays didn't try to help the offense this off season?

 

Does anyone remember them throwing $600 million + at the biggest bat out there? He picked somewhere else.

 

You need two to tango.

 

Am I supposed to be happy that they missed out on all the big free agents? When half of them signed for well below market value?

[WryNGinger]

The Jays did singularly attempt to MAJORLY boost the team this off season if all is to believed.

 

The problem as I see it is that they kinda had a mushy outline on the rest of their targets and didn't have a sense of what value they would off vs what salary they were going to get paid.

 

If I had to guess (which I of course do need to guess), I would say they listened to much to the agents and not enough to the media reports and insider info

[Eat My Shatkins]

Am I supposed to be happy that they missed out on all the big free agents? When half of them signed for well below market value?

 

Big free agents? That's what I'm driving at. Other than Ohtani, the "big free agents" this off season were a mushy pile of crap.

So many Jays fans is acting like the Jays FO missed out on a plethora of 5+ fWAR power bats.

The next best FA was Chapman and they offered him a pile of cash and he turned them down, how is that the FO's fault? He didn't want to be here. Plus his bat was weak last season anyways.

Then there is Bellinger who spent the three seasons prior being barely above league average, so no sure thing to be spending huge money on (even if it's "below market value") and his projections are nothing special anyways.

 

After that there was not one single sure thing they missed out on that we should be real upset about. Soler and his whopping 1.8 fWAR projection for 3/$48 million?? lol

[Spanky99]

 

General Spanky standing strong as Team No Panic finds itself under attack early in the 2024 season

(April 2024, colorized)

 

lmao

[Spanky99]

 

Do other organizations talk about a young player's weaknesses to the media to justify not playing them like this? Schneider (the dipshit, not Davis) could have just said "we think this is the best lineup for the matchup today" and left it at that. I mean that would have been BS too but at least it wasn't shedding a spotlight on a perceived weakness of one of your own players.

 

Well, Davis himself said after the game to Hazel Mae that *everyone knows the high heat is my kryptonite* and I was surprised to get the slider down to hit the HR, so there's that.

[jaysblue]

"Revamped Rogers Centre set to wow Blue Jays fans" <-- I'd prefer if they hit the baseball instead

 

Tickets definitely will be a lot cheaper come August at the Rogers Centre on StubHub or Ticketmaster Resale!

[jaysblue]

 

General Spanky standing strong as Team No Panic finds itself under attack early in the 2024 season

(April 2024, colorized)

 

Spanky getting tarred and feathered this early in the season.

[Spanky99]

Everybody likes to forget the circus outfield defense that cost us in the wild card series two years ago vs the Mariners.

 

Jays sacrificed some hitting for defense, won pretty much the same amount of games and got swept in the wild card again.

 

If the Jays had kept that s***** D together, won around 90 games and gotten beat because of D in the wild card again the same people would be complaining that they didn't make changes.

 

Agreed, can't win.

[jaysblue]

Everybody likes to forget the circus outfield defense that cost us in the wild card series two years ago vs the Mariners.

 

Jays sacrificed some hitting for defense, won pretty much the same amount of games and got swept in the wild card again.

 

If the Jays had kept that s***** D together, won around 90 games and gotten beat because of D in the wild card again the same people would be complaining that they didn't make changes.

 

Have you heard of something called "balance?" It's possible to put together both a formidable offense and defensive team on the field rather than ignoring one area.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Have you heard of something called "balance?" It's possible to put together both a formidable offense and defensive team on the field rather than ignoring one area.

 

lol, geeez, thanks tips, but that's what they tried to do. They tried to create balance.

 

All they did was trade Teo and LGJ for defense and pitching, that's it. Unfortunately nobody saw Vladdy, Springer, Kirk all forgetting how to hit a f***ing baseball at the exact same time that they removed Teo and LGJ.

 

If those bats don't fall off a cliff the Jays are pushing 95-100 wins last season.

 

So they tried to bring in the biggest, and only real free agent bat available. When that predictably didn't work they shored up the defense and are now hoping for a bounce back from those same bats because, going back to my original point......there WERE NO PROVEN SURE THING DIFFERENCE MAKING BATS LEFT ON THE FA MARKET after Ohtani.

 

If this doesn't work they are probably going to have to retool/rebuild this offense going forward, and that should be easier to do without a bunch of s*** bag albatross contracts on the books like the one they would have to have given Bellinger to "land" him.

[Eat My Shatkins]

duplicate

[Spanky99]

Spanky getting tarred and feathered this early in the season.

 

How so?

 

I just see you getting tarred and feathered, bruh?

Edited April 5, 2024 by Spanky99

[Spanky99]

Coming from a loser who keeps making accounts when they get banned. For someone who hates this place, you enjoy coming back. Go outside and touch some grass.

 

lol... that clown's unhinged.

[Spanky99]

The two guys with the worst predictive record in BJMB history being on Team Not Panicking is not a good sign.

 

I recall the the Jays making the PS 3 of 4 years and missing out by a game in the other, my predictive record is just fine, JimmyC... so there's that.

[Laika]

lol, geeez, thanks tips, but that's what they tried to do. They tried to create balance.

 

All they did was trade Teo and LGJ for defense and pitching, that's it. Unfortunately nobody saw Vladdy, Springer, Kirk all forgetting how to hit a f***ing baseball at the exact same time that they removed Teo and LGJ.

 

If those bats don't fall off a cliff the Jays are pushing 95-100 wins last season.

 

So they tried to bring in the biggest, and only real free agent bat available. When that predictably didn't work they shored up the defense and are now hoping for a bounce back from those same bats because, going back to my original point......there WERE NO PROVEN SURE THING DIFFERENCE MAKING BATS LEFT ON THE FA MARKET after Ohtani.

 

If this doesn't work they are probably going to have to retool/rebuild this offense going forward, and that should be easier to do without a bunch of s*** bag albatross contracts on the books like the one they would have to have given Bellinger to "land" him.

 

Preach!

 

I think the only valid criticisms of Shapiro and Atkins are on the drafting and development side. Also, the MLB coaching and game planning area.

 

I do not think any criticisms of their transactions or trades make much sense at all. On balance, they have been very good. Varsho-Moreno trade is probably not going to work out but I don't blame them for it and personally thought the trade was fine in context. Other than that, generally speaking, they have been fantastic in terms of MLB transactions.

 

Granted, the valid criticisms of drafting, development, strategy, and MLB coaching (of hitters) ARE a big deal of course. The lack of impact prospects to bridge to the "next wave" of contention is squarely on Atkins. The group decline in offensive production has to be blamed to some extent on the coaching staff and MLB development people.

[Laika]

Here is some good cope data to throw at the idiots who were saying things like "the offense is a lost cause, the pitchers they were getting dominated by aren't even that good!"

 

Stuff+ in 2024 for qualified SP so far

 

Javier, 124 (tied #2 in MLB)

Valdez, 124 (tied #2) with 100 location+ (solid)

Blanco, 110 (#14 in MLB) with 104 location+ (plus command)

Civale, 100 (rank #25)

 

There are 68 qualified SP.

Only Littell ranks poorly by Stuff+ out of the SP that have owned Toronto.

Javier and Valdez stuff profiles rank as elite from their starts. Blanco is borderline elite, with plus command, so it's not like they got turned into pretzels by mediocre stuff. No, instead the Jays have evidently faced the most elite pitching trio in MLB this year. These numbers are independent of results, remember - the model just looks at pitch shape, velo, spin, release points, etc.

 

I don't know what the f*** Houston did but they did something. Probably something to do with developing changeups in the offseason.

 

 

As far as the Jays pitching goes... really not much to point out so far other than this:

 

- Mayza's FB stuff+ is down but his SL stuff+ is off the charts, as it always has been. If he's not hurt, expect him to morph into a 50% breaking ball guy. This should mean walks up and strikeouts up. Historically he has been a 75% fastball guy! He might still be solid.

- Yimi's stuff is way up. Tiny sample though.

- Gausman's FB stuff+ was higher (122) in his one start than in 2023 (110)

- Bassitt actually has better stuff grades this year than last. His sinker grade is up to a 99 stuff+, it was only 92 last year. He might have improved his primary pitch.

- Pearson's stuff+ is 108 which means it has fallen off a cliff. It was 127 last year. Unless this ticks up, he's going to get rocked as 108 with poor command does not work in relief.