General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Spanky99]

I'm sorry but any of you who think it's too early to be worried must not even be watching the games

 

Toronto has been COMPLETELY HOPELESS against Civale, Littell, Blanco, Javier, and Valdez.

 

One of those guys is a legit top of rotation arm (Valdez) but there are two journeymen in there and two mid rotation guys.

 

It's f***ing embarrassing. They can't even get a hit off these guys. They can't drive a single baseball against league average pitchers like Javier and Civale.

 

It's so over.

 

Just looking forward to what they can get for Bichette at this point. Maybe Luciano+ from SFG.

 

[mphenhef]

While this is a fair assessment, I would submit that player development and year to year regression is also a thing. It may just be that Vlad, Kirk, Biggio, Varsho,etc. of 2023 is just who they are. There is a distinct possibility that Vlad repeats last season or is even worse. While we are all expecting Vladdy to bounce back to mvp form we all must be cognizant of the possiblility that 2022/2023 Vladdy is just who he is. But hope abounds.

 

At this point 2021 Vlad is definitely the outlier. He's got that in there somewhere but sadly it may take a different voice to get it out of him again.

 

People always point out that Vlad was better in minor league stadiums and that is the reason for his success that year, but didn't Dante Bichette also disappear from the team when they came back to Toronto (I remember guessing at the time he was unvaccinated)?

[mphenhef]

I'm sorry but any of you who think it's too early to be worried must not even be watching the games

 

Toronto has been COMPLETELY HOPELESS against Civale, Littell, Blanco, Javier, and Valdez.

 

One of those guys is a legit top of rotation arm (Valdez) but there are two journeymen in there and two mid rotation guys.

 

It's f***ing embarrassing. They can't even get a hit off these guys. They can't drive a single baseball against league average pitchers like Javier and Civale.

 

It's so over.

 

Just looking forward to what they can get for Bichette at this point. Maybe Luciano+ from SFG.

 

 

Civale looked pretty good yesterday against the Rangers, who many would argue are amongst the best lineups in the AL. Littell has also looked very good (3.41 ERA, 3.89 FIP last year) since transitioning to a starting role.

[BCZ]

Our offense in a collective nutshell: HURRRRRR DURRRRRR

[Laika]

Civale looked pretty good yesterday against the Rangers, who many would argue are amongst the best lineups in the AL. Littell has also looked very good (3.41 ERA, 3.89 FIP last year) since transitioning to a starting role.

 

Yeah yeah, Rays magic and all that.

 

Point remains. If any decent team like the Astros or Rays can just make one tweak to a depth starter or journeyman pitcher and completely dominate your lineup, you are going nowhere in the playoffs so what's the point of faking it? They should probably be planning on selling this year.

 

There is a difference between scoring a couple of runs and losing and getting completely, utterly pwned.

 

Civale: 6 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 1 HR, 1 BB, 6 K

Littell: 6 IP, 4 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 6 K

Blanco: 9 IP, 2 BB, 7 K

Valdez: 7.2 IP, 6 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 5 K

Javier: 5 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 5 BB, 3 K

 

That's 17 hits in 34.2 innings! Less than 0.5 hits per inning! There wasn't a qualified SP in baseball last year who gave up less hits per inning! Not even close!

 

They have made this collection of starters look like f***ing Devin Williams or Felix Bautista! They shouldn't be that hard to hit!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And it's not like this is bad BABIP luck, we are all watching the games, most of the Jays hitters have no chance and no clue whatsoever. Pop ups, weak groundouts, flailing at pitches.

 

 

It's utterly hopeless. Don't get your hopes up. Don't even watch the games tbh. Pick a new team.

[connorp]

Civale looked pretty good yesterday against the Rangers, who many would argue are amongst the best lineups in the AL. Littell has also looked very good (3.41 ERA, 3.89 FIP last year) since transitioning to a starting role.

 

He’s half serious, half jest. He has a need every so often to join the troll team to get it out of his system

[Omar]

It's utterly hopeless. Don't get your hopes up. Don't even watch the games tbh. Pick a new team.

 

Did Masterbather hack Laika's account?

[MikeM3]

Who spiked Laikas coffee with truth serum

[Brownie19]

Blue Jays lose 8-0.

 

Brownie: "the Jays lineup is still one of the best in the league and Ross Atkins is the best!"

 

Yep - that's exactly what I said. Tampon.

[Laika]

Who spiked Laikas coffee with truth serum

 

I was hopeful that the problematic hitters would make changes over the offseason, a couple of those would actually stick, and the team would have a different character. Spring training kind of hinted that they had made changes.

 

Losing all hope very fast.

 

It's not a small sample size. People who say "it's early" are coping so hard. It's all of 2023 + this continuation.

 

It doesn't take long to see that these guys are all the same. Varsho can't put a good swing on anything when the games matter. Vladdy will hack at a changeup in the dirt then take a meatball down the middle. Kirk couldn't lift a ball if there was a taquito on the line.

 

And management is as stupid as ever, not starting DS every single day. I guess it's not hard to see why the players don't buy in, when management is so robotic and cringe with these decisions.

 

The fat lady is not singing yet but she's doing her vocal exercises and getting in costume.

 

Okay now I can list out the positives I guess.

 

- IKF's defense is as good as advertised and he is already accumulating positive WAR, so that signing might work out.

- Clement and DS both look legit so there is hope on the roster if management figures it out.

- Turner hasn't forgotten how to hit.

 

Not going to worry about the pitching yet. Gausman is healthy, Berrios looks reliable, Kikuchi has bad starts all the time, Bassitt had a rough go last April too. Not worried other than a little bit with some of the stuff on the RP side. Don't like how Mayza looks in particular.

[Krylian]

Yeah yeah, Rays magic and all that.

 

Point remains. If any decent team like the Astros or Rays can just make one tweak to a depth starter or journeyman pitcher and completely dominate your lineup, you are going nowhere in the playoffs so what's the point of faking it? They should probably be planning on selling this year.

 

There is a difference between scoring a couple of runs and losing and getting completely, utterly pwned.

 

Civale: 6 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 1 HR, 1 BB, 6 K

Littell: 6 IP, 4 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 6 K

Blanco: 9 IP, 2 BB, 7 K

Valdez: 7.2 IP, 6 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 5 K

Javier: 5 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 5 BB, 3 K

 

That's 17 hits in 34.2 innings! Less than 0.5 hits per inning! There wasn't a qualified SP in baseball last year who gave up less hits per inning! Not even close!

 

They have made this collection of starters look like f***ing Devin Williams or Felix Bautista! They shouldn't be that hard to hit!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And it's not like this is bad BABIP luck, we are all watching the games, most of the Jays hitters have no chance and no clue whatsoever. Pop ups, weak groundouts, flailing at pitches.

 

 

It's utterly hopeless. Don't get your hopes up. Don't even watch the games tbh. Pick a new team.

 

This will be the 2017 Jays.

 

Lots of people were apprehensive after the 2016 season... Others didn't want to believe it or couldn't see it. But let's wait and see (even though some of us don't need to).

[Krylian]

I was hopeful that the problematic hitters would make changes over the offseason, a couple of those would actually stick, and the team would have a different character. Spring training kind of hinted that they had made changes.

 

Losing all hope very fast.

 

It's not a small sample size. People who say "it's early" are coping so hard. It's all of 2023 + this continuation.

 

It doesn't take long to see that these guys are all the same. Varsho can't put a good swing on anything when the games matter. Vladdy will hack at a changeup in the dirt then take a meatball down the middle. Kirk couldn't lift a ball if there was a taquito on the line.

 

And management is as stupid as ever, not starting DS every single day. I guess it's not hard to see why the players don't buy in, when management is so robotic and cringe with these decisions.

 

The fat lady is not singing yet but she's doing her vocal exercises and getting in costume.

 

Okay now I can list out the positives I guess.

 

- IKF's defense is as good as advertised and he is already accumulating positive WAR, so that signing might work out.

- Clement and DS both look legit so there is hope on the roster if management figures it out.

- Turner hasn't forgotten how to hit.

 

Not going to worry about the pitching yet. Gausman is healthy, Berrios looks reliable, Kikuchi has bad starts all the time, Bassitt had a rough go last April too. Not worried other than a little bit with some of the stuff on the RP side. Don't like how Mayza looks in particular.

 

Bingo. This is not a small sample size. Time doesn't get erased at the start of every season. This is season #2 of an inept offence. A s***** player doesn't the benefit of 'small sample size' when their entire previous season was garbage. A team shouldn't either.

[glory]

While this is a fair assessment, I would submit that player development and year to year regression is also a thing. It may just be that Vlad, Kirk, Biggio, Varsho,etc. of 2023 is just who they are. There is a distinct possibility that Vlad repeats last season or is even worse. While we are all expecting Vladdy to bounce back to mvp form we all must be cognizant of the possiblility that 2022/2023 Vladdy is just who he is. But hope abounds.

 

This is also a realistic possibility. Kirk has been a 90 wRC+ player (.090 ISO) since August 2022. He's been a below average player a lot longer (and more recently) than he was a good player since coming into the league. Varsho's xwOBA in 2022 when he was a near 5 WAR player was .298, so not only did the Jays buy high, but they likely overestimated what his offensive ceiling is/was. It's certainly possible that he's league average offensively but I don't think we can assume that at this rate with the expected numbers looking the way they have looked (nevermind the eye test). This is Springer's age 34 season and father time is undefeated. Vlad is the one wild card here as we know the ceiling is super high, but outside of 2021, he has a combined WAR of 3.9 in 4 seasons. At some point you have to stop looking at the outlier as something to expect/hope for and start looking closer to the average of what he's actually done.

 

As I said before, if Vlad/Bo are superstars (5+ WAR players) this season, then we are not going to nitpick on the complimentary pieces as much and there will be a real chance to do damage. Failing that, it's hard seeing this offense as currently constructed being a factor. Even Davis Schneider who absolutely should be playing everyday has enough warts where he may not be what the projections say he is (high K rate). It's still early and the pitching should still be very good if healthy so by no means should anyone be throwing in the towel, but man it's hard to look at this roster and get excited. I think Laika's rant is closer to reality than we want it to be.

[Brownie19]

I was hopeful that the problematic hitters would make changes over the offseason, a couple of those would actually stick, and the team would have a different character. Spring training kind of hinted that they had made changes.

 

Losing all hope very fast.

 

It's not a small sample size. People who say "it's early" are coping so hard. It's all of 2023 + this continuation.

 

It doesn't take long to see that these guys are all the same. Varsho can't put a good swing on anything when the games matter. Vladdy will hack at a changeup in the dirt then take a meatball down the middle. Kirk couldn't lift a ball if there was a taquito on the line.

 

And management is as stupid as ever, not starting DS every single day. I guess it's not hard to see why the players don't buy in, when management is so robotic and cringe with these decisions.

 

The fat lady is not singing yet but she's doing her vocal exercises and getting in costume.

 

Okay now I can list out the positives I guess.

 

- IKF's defense is as good as advertised and he is already accumulating positive WAR, so that signing might work out.

- Clement and DS both look legit so there is hope on the roster if management figures it out.

- Turner hasn't forgotten how to hit.

 

Not going to worry about the pitching yet. Gausman is healthy, Berrios looks reliable, Kikuchi has bad starts all the time, Bassitt had a rough go last April too. Not worried other than a little bit with some of the stuff on the RP side. Don't like how Mayza looks in particular.

 

Yeah - that pretty much sums it up for me too. This is a disastrous start. Everyone who hates everything about the Blue Jays can dunk all they want (hope it makes you feel really good). The Jays are unwatchable and this board is unreadable. This Vlad/Bo era has been super disappointing. I do love a good rebuild though. Bring it on.

Edited April 4, 2024 by Brownie19

[mphenhef]

He’s half serious, half jest. He has a need every so often to join the troll team to get it out of his system

 

Not trying to troll at all. I'm just pointing out those two pitchers particularly are not as terrible in the recent past. The Jays hitting has been terrible and should have everyone worried about it given how it has looked and how it was last year. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently given they more or less decided to roll it back with minimal changes in personnel. I'm sure privately Schneider is worried too but he's smart enough to know saying it in a post game interview will do no good.

[Flat Lander]

The lineup is still too comfortable to pitch too. 3 or 4 low threat at bats near the bottom and too many similar right handed bats at the top. Once a pitcher gets in a groove against the jays theirs nothing to disrupt their rhythm.

[MikeM3]

Coaching at the big league level means more than it used to. Development at the minor league level means more than it used to.

 

Our best hitter is Justin Turner because he has no exposure to our coaching. Most (literally all?) players on our roster have experienced gradual declines.

 

Guys can even pop during rookie years and decline from there like Kirk and Manoah.

 

A good mlb transaction is a nice skill to have but ultimately is very low on the most important skills because eventually those guys get exposed to your system and decline.

 

Like I said, I'd rather be the team that churns out coachable 40+ FVs and bumps them to 50s with coaching and preparation than the team constantly trying to add via FA or trade.

 

Also I don't care what anyone says, Mattingly knows nothing. Pete Walker knows nothing compared to other pitching coaches. No one here can seriously believe they are cutting up edgertronic video and forming excel databases. Montoya and Hudgens were clowns. We hire dinosaurs.

[BigCecil]

This will be the 2017 Jays.

 

Lots of people were apprehensive after the 2016 season... Others didn't want to believe it or couldn't see it. But let's wait and see (even though some of us don't need to).

 

I'm not a rosy optimist or shill for this FO or team but I honestly cant see this. I think I predicted they win 86 and I still think thats going to happen at a minimum.

 

The O is concerning yes. JT is hot but he projects 105. He will hit some valleys over the season.

 

Stevie Wonder could have seen that we didn't add enough offense - and the FO weighted projections for the likes of Kirk and Springer to have big rebounds too aggressively in establishing the roster. I would discount their projections more. Kirk is fat/slow and Springer is older and brittle.

 

I don't give laurels for "being in on" targets or attempts. This isn't the try league and in business, coffee is for closers. It takes 2 to tango for every GM, but their job is literally to find a way to make our targets tango with us. And they get paid well for it.

 

But no matter who we added on the edges, if Bo and Vlad aren't 5 ish WAR stars the team is going to just grind. No way around it.

 

They still might take off. After 7 games I can't pronounce the 2024 Jays DOA lol. After 50-60 we will know a hell of a lot more.

Edited April 4, 2024 by BigCecil

[Dick_Pole]

I'm willing to give this team a homestand before passing too hard judgement on the offense.

 

https://mcubed.net/mlb/tor/series9.shtml

 

Sort by RS under the away column. At Houston second lowest. At Tampa 8th lowest and lowest out of any location with more than 40 games. This isn't just a 2024 problem. The Jays have struggled to score runs at these locations every year since 1998 whether the offense has been good or bad. This team just naturally configures itself to suck mightily at southern locations that tend to favour pitchers. If you ignore the six games at Wrigley that becomes obvious just looking at that list. When they score 28 runs at Fenway again all will be sunshine and roses.

[wilko]

It's frustrating to watch a team suck so bat at hitting.

[The_DH]

The pitching has pretty much been as advertised and I'm okay with it. Romano and Swanson type situations are to be expected and will return making a strong bullpen. The offense seems to be the problem and this continues from prior year. So no, not a small sample size at all. I'd say, as the roster was constructed, the one hitter and no hitter was foreseeable. The comment that all the hitters would improve was either an unfounded dream or an outright lie.

Springer needs to be dropped to like 8th in the order and Vladdy the Worm Burner needs a bigger bat behind him. Somebody he looks up to. Ohtani could have been the kind of guy that would cure the offense. KK and IKF are not.

[BTS]

I think Springer has looked mostly comfortable at the plate, and he's making decent contact. He's probably had the the second-best ABs on the team After Turner. Third if you count Schneider. I think his numbers will pick up. It's basically everyone else that's concerning.

[The_DH]

Yes Springer has looked better than his results, I agree. I'm just thinking Schneider could lead off then Bichette who should warm up a bit, then Vlad and then a real left fielder with some power. Varsho is proving to be a great 4th outfielder, nothing more. I don't know if we could swap some pitching for a real hitter.

[Terminator]

Yeah - that pretty much sums it up for me too. This is a disastrous start. Everyone who hates everything about the Blue Jays can dunk all they want (hope it makes you feel really good). The Jays are unwatchable and this board is unreadable. This Vlad/Bo era has been super disappointing. I do love a good rebuild though. Bring it on.

 

Wow! He's jumping ship!

[Laika]

Terminator and Spanky are the last two fans standing.

 

A bizarre twosome.

[Terminator]

Proud to stand strong with my even-keeled and always rationale friend Spanky. Together we are on Team Not Panicking After 7 Games (It's really just the 3 game Astros series because we scored 20 runs against the Rays).

 

Will be expecting full apologies from the remaining 99% of the board after we are proven right.

[Jimcanuck]

The two guys with the worst predictive record in BJMB history being on Team Not Panicking is not a good sign.

[wilko]

And anyone who opposes them gets banned.

 

This board is a lost cause. Any lurkers lurking, don't even bother signing up to this shithole.

 

Those 2 have turned this board into a metaphorical Blue Jays message board spin on Stalin's Soviet Union.

 

Hey Spanky, I'm glad I jinxed that 1 game win streak by breaking the GDT chain with one of my unlimited burners. The team deserved that L for benching Davis Schneider, and you and Terminator deserved to watch the entire team other than Davis Schneider put up a combined 0 RBIs in a 3 game series. This is the kind of baseball you 2 deserve to see every single day.

 

I also screenshotted the moment you said "revalue" instead of "re-evaluate", so the ninja edit by you and/or the mods won't hide your brainless illiteracy.

 

Enjoy this watered down continuation of the 2023 team that you all deserve to witness.

Let the hatred and negativity continue to flow always, signed M I K E D E A N

 

Coming from a loser who keeps making accounts when they get banned. For someone who hates this place, you enjoy coming back. Go outside and touch some grass.

[Eat My Shatkins]

"This place sucks, waahhh, don't sign up new people, it's a s*** hole, waaaahhhh"

 

*proceeds to make 185 different burner accounts and keeps coming back*

 

Go watch some youtube videos on how to not be a loser and get a girlfriend you pathetic incel

[Sorrow]

It’s been a frustrating start to the season but I’m going to give it until the end of May before I come to any conclusions about the team. Kirk looks like June 22 to present Kirk which has been like a 660OPS bat, Varsho looks a bit better than last year but still has holes but I think a more league average season can be in the cards. KK looks cooked and Clement and Schneider have looked fine so far.

 

Springer, Bichette and Guerrero need to do something and we need Jansens bat back.

 

Mayza is the only core reliever who looks wrong and his velocity looks like it’s down 3mph. Starting has looked for the most part decent but we’re only on the 2nd turn so need to give it a bit more time.