General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[deanmike]

I am sure this is all true but knowing this makes spending 17.5 million on IKF and KK a terrible mistake and shows a terrible understanding/forecasting of the market from the Jays front office.

 

You must be mistaken if you think I am an Atkins defender. I am just a context provider.

[Jimcanuck]

Wow I didn't even realize Shi Davidi said this shortly before Chapman signed:

 

 

 

 

With me and others OFFICIALLY being right about the whole 2nd threshold relating to the Jays non-Ohtani 2024 budget thing, I need to be honest about something...

 

Since the Chapman news broke, I've been getting a lot of credit like "pour yourself a tall one Dean" and whatnot, that I feel is underserved.

 

It's not like I was even the first one on this message board to figure it out. This all started when I responded to an L54 post after the KK signing, saying something about him making 25% of the budget, Frenchsoup responded asking how he knows that it's 25% of the budget, and I responded to Frenchsoup showing the math on it (because to me and clearly L54 it was always obvious that the 2nd threshold was very relevant to this season's budget).

 

I was just continuing to post the most about it afterward to try and provide what I thought was helpful context to other posters who may not have been aware before. Seems many did not want to hear the truth, and actively tried to believe lies instead, to desperately continue trying to defend that ******** Atkins.

 

Point is though, credit should actually go to L54 for first bringing the 2nd threshold issue to the attention of this board. YOU pour yourself a tall one buddy.

 

Most posters knew the tax threshold was an issue, dude.

[deanmike]

Most posters knew the tax threshold was an issue, dude.

 

Don't worry, most of the ones who didn't know, or knew but tried to deny it anyway have been called out directly already by me and others.

[BTS]

I guess they just never really wanted Chapman at his age

 

Maybe the rumours of the Jays making him a sizeable offer are not even true?

 

Or Chapman didn’t want to come back

[BTS]

Womp womp.

 

Looks like some apologies are owed boys.

 

I’m not accepting an L on that post. I don’t think IKF’s salary prevented them from signing Chapman. If they otherwise felt that a deal was workable, salary could have been moved out to accommodate. Either they didn’t want him, or he didn’t want them.

 

Chapman's salary would have been easy to fit right up until early February, when they signed Turner. They likely knew at that point that Chapman wouldn't be returning.

Edited March 2, 2024 by BTS

[saskjayfan]

I’m not accepting an L on that post. I don’t think IKF’s salary prevented them from signing Chapman. If they otherwise felt that a deal was workable, salary could have been moved out to accommodate. Either they didn’t want him, or he didn’t want them.

 

What salary could you have moved? IKF's signing made Chapman impossible.

[deanmike]

What salary could you have moved? IKF's signing made Chapman impossible.

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/11179-General-Blue-Jays-Discussion-Thread-(2024)?p=1775211&viewfull=1#post1775211

 

See "Door B"

[BTS]

What salary could you have moved? IKF's signing made Chapman impossible.

 

They could have just not signed Turner. Or moved Green. Or Kikuchi. Or not signed Yariel Rodriguez. Or not signed Kiermaier. Yimi Garcia makes a third of Chapman's CBT hit. "They signed IKF and thus didn't have the money for Chapman" is way too simplistic. They could easily have had both. They operated all offseason as though they either didn't really want him at any price, or he didn't want to come back.

 

It's been a bad offseason in the aggregate, but pinning all of it on the signing of a guy who makes like 3% of their payroll is silly.

[BigCecil]

If anyone thinks Chappy struggled at the plate last year, wait until we watch 2 years of IKF. This off season has been epic.

[Sorrow]

If anyone thinks Chappy struggled at the plate last year, wait until we watch 2 years of IKF. This off season has been epic.

 

IKF outhit Chapman from May 1st to the end of the season even with Chapmans amazing July or August.

 

I don’t expect IKF to be some amazing player I think he may get to 2 WAR and I wouldn’t be surprised if he spends a lot of time off the bench against RHP with Vogelbach DHing and something like Turner starting at 2B and being subbed after 3 at bats.

 

The biggest improvement this team can get is a healthy Jansen, he’s been the teams best hitter since May of 2021 and Guerrero, Springer and Kirk regressing positively.

 

Kirk finished the year with a 118 wRC+ IIRC.

 

Varsho I’m not as concerned about as the other 3 as he was league average or better against all pitching other than RHP at home where he was at 35 wRC+.

[BatFlip]

If anyone thinks Chappy struggled at the plate last year, wait until we watch 2 years of IKF. This off season has been epic.

 

Yup. Going to be painful at the plate. Front office shouldn't have rushed the IKF signing, it makes no sense unless Chapman was clear he wasn't interested in coming back.

 

It's a very small consolation, but it's funny to see Boras foolishly overplay his hand.

[burlingtonbandit]

Possible Chapman and his family just didn't like Toronto as a city. I mean he lives in Scottsdale and from California. Coming to Toronto and seeing Indians dominate the service industry could be a culture shock to them.

[saskjayfan]

They could have just not signed Turner. Or moved Green. Or Kikuchi. Or not signed Yariel Rodriguez. Or not signed Kiermaier. Yimi Garcia makes a third of Chapman's CBT hit. "They signed IKF and thus didn't have the money for Chapman" is way too simplistic. They could easily have had both. They operated all offseason as though they either didn't really want him at any price, or he didn't want to come back.

 

It's been a bad offseason in the aggregate, but pinning all of it on the signing of a guy who makes like 3% of their payroll is silly.

 

7.5 mil isn't completely insignificant. From a roster construction standpoint they aren't signing IKF or at least that early if they were serious about Chapman. I get it. Chapman was asking for 120 to 140 mil when they signed IKF. I think there was mutual interest from both sides, but they were 50+ mil apart on value when IKF was signed.

[L54]

Wow I didn't even realize Shi Davidi said this shortly before Chapman signed:

 

 

 

 

With me and others OFFICIALLY being right about the whole 2nd threshold relating to the Jays non-Ohtani 2024 budget thing, I need to be honest about something...

 

Since the Chapman news broke, I've been getting a lot of credit like "pour yourself a tall one Dean" and whatnot, that I feel is underserved.

 

It's not like I was even the first one on this message board to figure it out. This all started when I responded to an L54 post after the KK signing, saying something about him making 25% of the budget, Frenchsoup responded asking how he knows that it's 25% of the budget, and I responded to Frenchsoup showing the math on it (because to me and clearly L54 it was always obvious that the 2nd threshold was very relevant to this season's budget).

 

I was just continuing to post the most about it afterward to try and provide what I thought was helpful context to other posters who may not have been aware before. Seems many did not want to hear the truth, and actively tried to believe lies instead, to desperately continue trying to defend that ******** Atkins.

 

Point is though, credit should actually go to L54 for first bringing the 2nd threshold issue to the attention of this board. YOU pour yourself a tall one buddy.

 

I swear this isn’t my alternate account

 

I did have a tall one last night and will do it again tonight on dean’s recommendation. Thanks dean

[saskjayfan]

Possible Chapman and his family just didn't like Toronto as a city. I mean he lives in Scottsdale and from California. Coming to Toronto and seeing Indians dominate the service industry could be a culture shock to them.

 

I highly doubt that was the case..lol. While we're on the cultural topic. We talked about the obvious revenue potential Shohei Ohtani could bring. I wonder what type of cultural revenue bump Nimmala could bring if he developed into a star.

[BTS]

7.5 mil isn't completely insignificant. From a roster construction standpoint they aren't signing IKF or at least that early if they were serious about Chapman. I get it. Chapman was asking for 120 to 140 mil when they signed IKF. I think there was mutual interest from both sides, but they were 50+ mil apart on value when IKF was signed.

 

I wonder how far apart they were when Turner signed. If there was any interest at all from the team, there must have been a take it or leave it offer in late January.

[Laika]

I wonder how far apart they were when Turner signed. If there was any interest at all from the team, there must have been a take it or leave it offer in late January.

 

Maybe Chapman's position was basically "if I'm going to have to take a pillow deal it'll be with SFG"

[saskjayfan]

I wonder how far apart they were when Turner signed. If there was any interest at all from the team, there must have been a take it or leave it offer in late January.

 

You may be right. I hope we can get more games out of Turner at third than I think we will. If he could play 50 or so times at third that would be great.

[saskjayfan]

Our 1st round draft picks since 2016.

 

2016 TJ Zeuch

2017 Logan Warmoth, Nate Pearson

2018 Jordan Groshans

2019 Alek Manoah

2020 Austin Martin

2021 Gunnar Hoglund

2022 Brandon Barriera

2023 Arjun Nimalla

 

In fairness, the draft is part skill, but there's a whole lotta luck involved. Martin at the number 5 pick was number 2 on most boards. We haven't had a lot of success or luck depending on your thought on the draft. Hopefully Nimalla and or Barriera can have an impact on the club. We've only really hit on Manoah. We're due for a number 1 pick to have some success!

 

I just went through our international signings since 2016. Outside of Kirk signed by an area scout who's been with the club for 30 years it's been pretty ugly. Seriously, we need some new scouts..lol

 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/international/2016/toronto-blue-jays/

[Laika]

I just went through our international signings since 2016. Outside of Kirk signed by an area scout who's been with the club for 30 years it's been pretty ugly. Seriously, we need some new scouts..lol

 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/international/2016/toronto-blue-jays/

 

Nah they do okay here

 

Moreno, Orelvis, Leo Jimenez, Otto Lopez (RIP), Robberse, Zulueta, Kendrys Rojas

 

Getting any international player NEAR the big leagues is a win

[Stangstag]

I’m not accepting an L on that post. I don’t think IKF’s salary prevented them from signing Chapman. If they otherwise felt that a deal was workable, salary could have been moved out to accommodate. Either they didn’t want him, or he didn’t want them.

 

Chapman's salary would have been easy to fit right up until early February, when they signed Turner. They likely knew at that point that Chapman wouldn't be returning.

 

Stubborn

[Carlos Danger]

Possible Chapman and his family just didn't like Toronto as a city. I mean he lives in Scottsdale and from California. Coming to Toronto and seeing Indians dominate the service industry could be a culture shock to them.

 

When is the last time you were in the San Francisco area? Dominated by Indians and Asians, just making a lot more money and driving Teslas.

[saskjayfan]

Nah they do okay here

 

Moreno, Orelvis, Leo Jimenez, Otto Lopez (RIP), Robberse, Zulueta, Kendrys Rojas

 

Getting any international player NEAR the big leagues is a win

 

Last time I checked there are a lot of international players in the MLB. Moreno is the only player making an impact over quite a lengthy period of time. I have hope Orelvis could provide an impact. You saying they do Okay really isn't objective. If you compared their international signings to the other 30 teams since 2016 they wouldn't rank in the top half of the league.

[Laika]

Last time I checked there are a lot of international players in the MLB. Moreno is the only player making an impact over quite a lengthy period of time. I have hope Orelvis could provide an impact. You saying they do Okay really isn't objective. If you compared their international signings to the other 30 teams since 2016 they wouldn't rank in the top half of the league.

 

Don't be dumb

 

It takes 6+ years for most of these kids to develop. If you're looking for "impact MLB players signed since 2016" you are essentially just asking how well they did in the 2016-2018 years. Kind of a butthole of a question dude

[RobinThicc]

Modest offseason suggests the Blue Jays are putting themselves in a position to pivot off this core soon. Would be detrimental for the next competitive window to saddle yourself with a bad contract or blow prospects.

[saskjayfan]

Don't be dumb

 

It takes 6+ years for most of these kids to develop. If you're looking for "impact MLB players signed since 2016" you are essentially just asking how well they did in the 2016-2018 years. Kind of a butthole of a question dude

 

You mean you can't look at how the 2019, 2020, 2021 guys are developing and formulate an opinion. Some of our most expensive players signed during that period are no longer with the club so I doubt they'll make in impact 3 years from now. Why do you feel the need to defend Atkins at every turn. You put zero effort into actually determining if the Jays have a good international signing record or not compared to other teams. Your default is just Atkins is really good..lol.

[Laika]

You mean you can't look at how the 2019, 2020, 2021 guys are developing and formulate an opinion. Some of our most expensive players signed during that period are no longer with the club so I doubt they'll make in impact 3 years from now. Why do you feel the need to defend Atkins at every turn. You put zero effort into actually determining if the Jays have a good international signing record or not compared to other teams. Your default is just Atkins is really good..lol.

 

They do have a good record, lmao

 

YOU put zero effort into showing that they don't have a good record

 

Foolish

[Terminator]

I wonder how far apart they were when Turner signed. If there was any interest at all from the team, there must have been a take it or leave it offer in late January.

 

The Turner deal is the biggest head scratcher but by that point you are probably right in that they had an idea that the Giants were always going to beat us on a one year deal. Even though it’s improved, some players still don’t want to play in TO.

 

Chapman is a west coast guy that lives in Arizona. He doesn’t even have to move for ST anymore and he’s a lot closer to San Fran. Jays seem to do better with FL guys now, but there is still probably some hesitancy from CA/AZ guys.

 

Jays internal projections might be down on Chapman anyway and the team may have been wise to pass on him and save their remaining dollars in case of injury. Manoah was iffy as is and now with a shoulder injury he’s even more of a question mark. Perhaps a German or Lorenzen signing is more necessary now.

[Terminator]

Regardless, Atkins is definitely on my own personal hot seat! He’s running a Top 5 payroll and we have a coin flip chance at the playoffs and a bottom 1/3 farm system. He needs a big year to keep his job.

[hanton]

Kinda knew something was wrong

 

https://www.tsn.ca/toronto-blue-jays-alek-manoah-shoulder-bumped-from-sunday-start-1.2083653