General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Orgfiller]

Two innings of work for Mitch White. The stuff looked good on paper, 95.6 mph average on the fastball, 88.4 on the slider, mixed in a few curveballs and sweepers. Only one swing and miss though, and the command on the second inning of work clearly wavered, although the velo maintained.

[BatFlip]

If Manoah is cooked could go to Francis in addition to White. Tiedemann a midseason add. Could also sign someone like Lorenzen.

 

Yup. It’s quite possible Francis shows himself a capable backend starter - this would be a great outcome for the next few years of budget management.

 

If Tiedemann looks good early on, I really think the team should be using his bullets in the MLB sooner rather than later, understanding workload is going to be carefully managed/limited. Midseason makes sense, but if he’s showing out, earlier is better.

[Jimcanuck]

Yup. It’s quite possible Francis shows himself a capable backend starter - this would be a great outcome for the next few years of budget management.

 

If Tiedemann looks good early on, I really think the team should be using his bullets in the MLB sooner rather than later, understanding workload is going to be carefully managed/limited. Midseason makes sense, but if he’s showing out, earlier is better.

 

It is not out of the question that Tiedeman makes the team out of ST

[John_Havok]

It is not out of the question that Tiedeman makes the team out of ST

 

There might be a universe out there that exists where he does, but I don't think it's this one.

 

Early ST setback (not serious) plus a very obvious innings cap from last year to this one...it's doubtful.

 

Unless the Jays want to specifically use him as a 3 inning opener rather than carry a true 5th starter. I'm guessing that's not what they are planning and they'd rather have tiedemann getting the bulk of his innings towards the end of the season if he's up with the club

 

Injury caveats to other pitchers nothwithstanding of course

[Jimcanuck]

There might be a universe out there that exists where he does, but I don't think it's this one.

 

Early ST setback (not serious) plus a very obvious innings cap from last year to this one...it's doubtful.

 

Unless the Jays want to specifically use him as a 3 inning opener rather than carry a true 5th starter. I'm guessing that's not what they are planning and they'd rather have tiedemann getting the bulk of his innings towards the end of the season if he's up with the club

 

Injury caveats to other pitchers nothwithstanding of course

 

Opener/bulk reliever, yes. I never said as a starter.

 

No reason why he can't get his innings in with the big club while getting MLB experience, if the Jays consider him ready

[tazsub3]

I am starting to see the silver lining, this will be the season we get rid of atkins .

[glory]

Tiedemann (much like pitching prospects in general) is very risky. I'd rather he throw whatever bullets he has in the big leagues, and if they have to restrict him a bit during the season for innings purposes, then deal with that when it happens. Of course this recent setback might mean he won't be ramped up in time for the start of the season. I'd have no issues with Francis getting a shot. He should have gotten a fair one last season rather than having Manoah pitch like s*** every 5th day. If he doesn't work out then move on to the next, but good teams find capable bottom of the rotation SP depth internally, and it's about time the Jays start doing it.

[deanmike]

how is dean mike not banned?

 

Stop hiding and post this from your main account instead of burner

[Jimcanuck]

Whateva

 

c'mon connor the gig is up

[connorp]

c'mon connor the gig is up

 

I’m the greatest poster in the history of the board. Calling a kids art class picture a Picasso is a little silly.

[ilovejohnschneider]

you have a 1/10 thank to post ratio. My 1/8 would suggest otherwise.

 

i didnt know 1/8 equals 1/12 !! hey i guess u learn something new every day amirite ?

[Jimcanuck]

I’m the greatest poster in the history of the board. Calling a kids art class picture a Picasso is a little silly.

 

5 minutes, lol

[BigCecil]

Such a big year for rotation while we anticipate seeing if the offense will improve. The D should be solid again regardless.

 

Gausman - Almost into house money on his deal after 2 seasons. Great signing.

 

Berrios & Kooch - Big year for them. They gave us net 0.4 total net WAR in 2022 for $35M and 5.6 WAR for $29M in 2023 with bounce back.

 

Hound - 200 IP & 2.6 WAR in 2023 for $21M. Will be 36 with 2/42 left. Can he do it again, or similar.

 

Manoah - Who knows? His name could change to Francis or Yariel quick. Hoping the ST start was a blip, but 3 HBP is concerning lol.

 

We don't talk about the pen much now, like we did in 2021 and parts of '22. Its solid. Not elite. Lots of options if healthy. Green needs to be impacting. Pearson and White X factors again. Sort of.

[Brownie19]

The pen also has some intriguing in-house options this year. Something we haven't really had in years.

[wilko]

Someone needs to ban the bots.

[ilovejohnschneider]

Yea because you unthanked the 1 you gave me just so you can make this post.

 

no way !! why would i do that ??

[John_Havok]

The pen also has some intriguing in-house options this year. Something we haven't really had in years.

 

Yep. Cooke could be a guy that fills a need of swing and miss, Danner if he's healthy will certainly get another shot. Any of the LHRs in the upper minors could get a look.

 

Troy Watson is a guy who could get there too. On the older side but he doesn't have to be 21 to be an effective reliever.

 

Complete nothing burger from his draft all the way through 2021...k rate of like 4.5. then in 2022 obviously something was adjusted as his K rate spiked as high as 14.1

[hanton]

Schneider lets go...base hit off Cole after looking overmatched with the high heat then Vogel with a BOMB off Cole, 370' shot (looked like 500')

[Stangstag]

Schneider lets go...base hit off Cole after looking overmatched with the high heat then Vogel with a BOMB off Cole

 

Absolute mammoth shot

[hanton]

I forgot about the re-entry rule in ST, I like it

[saskjayfan]

Is it just me, or does Cole look fat.

[hanton]

Is it just me, or does Cole look fat.

 

they're baseball players not Olympic swimmers

[Stangstag]

There is a 0% chance the team is saying "well f***, it turns out we can get Chapman or Bellinger but unfortunately we're spending 3% of our budget on Isaiah Kiner-Falefa so we'll have to pass". It's absurd to even entertain the possibility that this is happening.

 

nevertheless, luxury tax doomers are doing it

 

I'm just telling you - I think that's what several people on this board are thinking right now and they're developing opinions that Atkins is a s***** GM because of it.

 

Womp womp.

 

Looks like some apologies are owed boys.

[AMS528]

I have generally felt like Atkins has done a good job, especially on trades getting value consistently.

 

But there is like no way to view this offseason as anything but a disappointment when you strike out on every free agent available and even the ones whose price dropped significantly.

 

IKF as the best acquisition is pretty miserable.

 

Getting KK again, and not maximizing the value that Varsho would bring at CF instead is also pretty s*****.

 

This wasn't a very good offseason when you're trying to squeeze a few more wins in. The front office must believe a few guys are primed for breakouts and returns to form which I hope is happens.

[Laika]

Womp womp.

 

Looks like some apologies are owed boys.

 

I guess they just never really wanted Chapman at his age

 

Maybe the rumours of the Jays making him a sizeable offer are not even true?

[Laika]

Hey, Jays get a comp pick though

 

Can't wait for them to blow it on another college 2B prospect with no tools

[wamco]

Ya 1/20 was completely unrealistic…

[saskjayfan]

I have generally felt like Atkins has done a good job, especially on trades getting value consistently.

 

But there is like no way to view this offseason as anything but a disappointment when you strike out on every free agent available and even the ones whose price dropped significantly.

 

IKF as the best acquisition is pretty miserable.

 

Getting KK again, and not maximizing the value that Varsho would bring at CF instead is also pretty s*****.

 

This wasn't a very good offseason when you're trying to squeeze a few more wins in. The front office must believe a few guys are primed for breakouts and returns to form which I hope is happens.

 

Our 1st round draft picks since 2016.

 

2016 TJ Zeuch

2017 Logan Warmoth, Nate Pearson

2018 Jordan Groshans

2019 Alek Manoah

2020 Austin Martin

2021 Gunnar Hoglund

2022 Brandon Barriera

2023 Arjun Nimalla

 

In fairness, the draft is part skill, but there's a whole lotta luck involved. Martin at the number 5 pick was number 2 on most boards. We haven't had a lot of success or luck depending on your thought on the draft. Hopefully Nimalla and or Barriera can have an impact on the club. We've only really hit on Manoah. We're due for a number 1 pick to have some success!

[mphenhef]

These "highlights" are missing the most important part of the Chapman discussion that ocurred.

 

The answer to "should/could the Jays re offer the QO" ended up being a pretty resounding no. BNS and Zwelling re-iterated that the Jays don't have enough under the 2nd threshold to outright sign Chapman.

 

Zwelling makes a jab right after (directed at the casuals who know nothing about the budget, act like they do, and don't even care to educate themselves), saying "Espinal's 2.725M isn't quite the level of subtraction required that Atkins was referring to." On this board we haven't had much of this level of defiance of reality, but off board the casual takes have been staggeringly bad.

 

They also do clarify though that in special cases the FO can make a case to ownership to go over budget if it's for the right move. Outlined examples of past FO targets like Ohtani/Freeman/Seager. They make an added clarification after: "Chapman is not one of those special cases."

 

 

 

 

 

Time for the people who were trying to wish Chapman being a special case into existence to pick between the realistic Door A/B scenarios I provided for their pivot opinions.

 

I am sure this is all true but knowing this makes spending 17.5 million on IKF and KK a terrible mistake and shows a terrible understanding/forecasting of the market from the Jays front office.

[deanmike]

Wow I didn't even realize Shi Davidi said this shortly before Chapman signed:

 

 

Says the BlueJays have only 9 million dollars left before hitting a second luxury tax…. He says Chapman coming back would require a significant salary to leave

 

With me and others OFFICIALLY being right about the whole 2nd threshold relating to the Jays non-Ohtani 2024 budget thing, I need to be honest about something...

 

Since the Chapman news broke, I've been getting a lot of credit like "pour yourself a tall one Dean" and whatnot, that I feel is underserved.

 

It's not like I was even the first one on this message board to figure it out. This all started when I responded to an L54 post after the KK signing, saying something about him making 25% of the budget, Frenchsoup responded asking how he knows that it's 25% of the budget, and I responded to Frenchsoup showing the math on it (because to me and clearly L54 it was always obvious that the 2nd threshold was very relevant to this season's budget).

 

I was just continuing to post the most about it afterward to try and provide what I thought was helpful context to other posters who may not have been aware before. Seems many did not want to hear the truth, and actively tried to believe lies instead, to desperately continue trying to defend that ******** Atkins.

 

Point is though, credit should actually go to L54 for first bringing the 2nd threshold issue to the attention of this board. YOU pour yourself a tall one buddy.