General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

If Jano is out for more than a week we're really gonna miss having Moreno around. Kirk will have to step it up and I'm not sure that he can.

 

This is why I wanted them to trade Kirk or Jano instead of Gabby - Jano is injury prone and Kirk is not a long term solution because of his conditioning.

 

I'm really worried about our depth at catcher. Not good.

[WryNGinger]

If Jano is out for more than a week we're really gonna miss having Moreno around. Kirk will have to step it up and I'm not sure that he can.

 

This is why I wanted them to trade Kirk or Jano instead of Gabby - Jano is injury prone and Kirk is not a long term solution because of his conditioning.

 

I'm really worried about our depth at catcher. Not good.

 

At least at catcher we have a few decent veterans that can do the basics of taking care of the pitching staff while having maybe league average at bats. Seems like catching depth is better at AAA than starting and relief pitching?

[Brownie19]

If Jano is out for more than a week we're really gonna miss having Moreno around. Kirk will have to step it up and I'm not sure that he can.

 

This is why I wanted them to trade Kirk or Jano instead of Gabby - Jano is injury prone and Kirk is not a long term solution because of his conditioning.

 

I'm really worried about our depth at catcher. Not good.

 

Yep - great point ass hat.

[jaysblue]

Jays should have signed Gary Sanchez.

[Ehjays]

[connorp]

 

Apparently he has one of those Donald Trump deals going on.

Never would’ve gotten that in a million years, who signed that

[Laika]

yeah that's a horrible signature

[Ehjays]

Apparently he has one of those Donald Trump deals going on.

Never would’ve gotten that in a million years, who signed that

 

Yeah it looks closer to Trammel than Vladdy,

[John_Havok]

Would have been funnier if Raley went and got the HR ball Vlad hit off him, signed it, and gave it to Vlad saying "You got me."

[John_Havok]

I knew and expected the ticket prices to go up after the renos... but this is a bit much:

 

In an email to Blue Jays season-ticket holders last month updating the next phase of Rogers Centre renovations, a passing mention buried deep down pointed to one significant change for seat-holders close to the action.

 

After running through some of the major changes that will be part of a “completely reimagined lower bowl” starting next season, the message from team president Mark Shapiro dropped the hammer:

 

 

“This means, however, that your current seats will no longer exist as currently situated,” the email read.

 

The crux of that single line sent shock waves through Jays devotees who have for years enjoyed watching their favourite team from close proximity. Some of them later learned the revamped seating arrangements will cost tens of thousands of dollars more than what they are currently paying.

 

“It’s upsetting. It seems unfair. It completely ignores the loyalty we’ve had for the team over all these years, especially the years when they weren’t in contention,” said Steve Gamester.

 

Since 1977, his family has split season tickets for two seats near home plate, first at Exhibition Stadium and then directly beside the Jays dugout at the Rogers Centre. They have shared the cost with two other families every season since the MLB team debuted in Toronto. The seats originally belonged to three former longtime Star journalists — George Gamester, Gerry Hall and Jack Brehl — who later turned them over to their kids. They are among just a few remaining season-ticket holders from Day 1.

 

There’s no question their seats are good — they’re in the first row behind the In The Action section. The Gamesters were once asked to move to another location during the playoffs to make room for the MLB commissioner.

 

So after hearing about the lower-bowl renovations, Gamester was expecting a price increase. But his family was totally shocked to find out the new price would be nearly 10 times higher.

 

Last fall, when they renewed their seats for the 46th time, the final numbers came in at $15,000 for the pair of tickets, or $7,500 per seat for a total of 81 games. That works out to an average of $92.59 for each seat per game.

 

After following up with their Jays account representative, Gamester said they were told the cost to renew for similar tickets next year would be $68,500 per seat — a total of $137,000 for the pair. That works out to $845.68 per ticket for each game, or $1,691.36 for the pair.

 

He said they were also told the team would need a three-year commitment up front, which hadn’t been required before.

 

“There’s no way we can afford $137,000 for baseball tickets,” said Gamester, who noted an increase of about 20 per cent would have been more reasonable.

 

He feels their only chance to stay will be paying more for worse seats.

 

“To me, it feels like they probably want the original 1977 families to leave,” Gamester said. “It’s kind of like when a landlord renovates an apartment so that they can raise the price, which is very much a Toronto story right now.”

 

Gamester has been a witness to some of the most memorable moments in franchise history. He fondly recalls being at the dome when Joe Carter won the 1993 World Series with his walk-off homer, and for José Bautista’s iconic bat flip in the 2015 American League Division Series. He remembers being at the last game in Exhibition Stadium in 1989, and was there when George Bell charged the mound and tried to karate kick Red Sox pitcher Bruce Kison in 1985.

 

His mother Heather Gamester attended the very first game in 1977. She remembers “suffering through the cold” over the years to watch the team even when the roster was terrible, and said it’s “disgraceful” to price out ordinary and loyal fans.

 

“We paid every single year and the price always kept going up, but not to this extent,” she said, adding the family’s hope of passing the tickets from one generation to the next will probably end now.

 

“It’s becoming an elitist place to go.”

 

The Jays say revamping the entire 100 level of the ballpark, much like the transformation of the outfield in the first phase, is solely aimed at improving the entertainment experience for fans in a stadium that hasn’t seen much improvement since the dome opened in 1989.

 

The team says a major part of the next phase of renovations will be the introduction of three premium clubs that will be connected to the best seats at the ballpark and offer a variety of entertainment and services to fans.

 

Located directly behind home plate, those clubs will offer members a separate entrance to the stadium, have their own sports bars and provide in-seat dining options, among other things.

 

Shapiro has previously said the Rogers Centre is among the ballparks that offer the fewest premium experience options in the league, and less than other entertainment venues in Toronto.

 

Premium tickets at the Rogers Centre for In the Action, The ScoreBet baseline seats, Ticketmaster Lounge and TD Clubhouse are usually sold out and have long wait lists.

 

For access to premium clubs and other seats in the revamped lower bowl, the team says season-ticket holders — some of whom, like the Gamesters, have been with the team since it played at Exhibition Stadium — will get priority to choose before the rest of the general public.

 

“We know the deep history many of our long-tenured season-ticket members have in their current seats and we are committed to supporting our members through this transition with priority access to hand-select their new seats to make memories for the 2024 season and beyond,” said Jays executive vice-president Anuk Karunaratne in a statement.

 

“All the changes we’ve made so far and to come in 2024 are driven and designed by our fans — in the lower bowl, that will include everything from wider seats each with a cupholder, improved accessibility, and baseball-specific sightlines, in addition to premium hospitality.”

 

The selection process has started with season-ticket subscribers interested in joining the premium clubs, and members will have a chance to select improved but non-premium seats in the lower bowl starting later in the summer.

 

“The entire 100-level seating is being reimagined with new seating, and as a result all season-ticket members will have an opportunity to choose new seats from a variety of different pricing and location options,” the Jays said in a statement to the Star.

 

Still, many longtime fans feel the price is too steep.

 

Sharon, an Oshawa woman who didn’t want to give her last name, said her family has shared the cost of a pair of tickets in Row 21 behind the Jays dugout with three other families for the past 20 years. They paid nearly $12,000 to renew this season.

 

For similar seats after the planned revamp, she said they’ve been told the cost would be around $40,000. She would have been fine moving five or six rows back for the current price, but said that seems unlikely.

 

“The way they are treating us as loyal fans, it’s not fair,” she said before the Jays’ game against the New York Yankees on Wednesday.

 

Nonetheless, some fans are excited to see what the new-look seats will bring. Arron Barberian remembers going to games when the Jays played at Exhibition Stadium, and sitting in Row 2 with elbows on top of the Jays dugout. He estimates he has gone to more than 2,000 games over the years.

 

At the Rogers Centre, he and other people share five seats in Row 9 above the visiting team’s dugout. Barberian hasn’t learned what the final price will be once renovations are complete, but he believes it will be worth it considering what’s happening elsewhere.

 

“When you go to a Yankee Stadium and you sit in the first five rows, the tickets are even more expensive than what Toronto is proposing,” he said, noting many other clubs offer more premium services to high-paying fans — such as valet parking and access to dining rooms with alumni.

 

VIP tickets for a Maple Leafs or Raptors game are relatively more expensive compared to what the Jays are promising with premium seats, he said. (An advertisement last year in the Star said Raptors courtside seats can go for well over $1,000 per ticket.)

 

“If you really want a great luxury experience, that’s not inexpensive,” Barberian said of the Jays tickets. “I’m really actually very excited to see this bit of luxury come to Toronto.”

 

One of the main issues he’s hoping the team takes into account while doing the renovations is accessibility. His son Harry was born with cerebral palsy and uses a wheelchair. The family has been mindful of including a pair of accessible seats in their package, and he’d love for the revamped premium seating to have accessible areas as well.

 

“I’m really looking forward to an upgrade,” said Barberian, who added the existing food options and other services at the Rogers Centre leave a lot to be desired.

 

“You can look now at the renovations that have happened so far, and there may be no better general admission experience in the league. You have to trust in that.”

[Laika]

tbh it just sounds like the Jays were letting people renew for far below market value, for a long time

 

if Toronto thinks they can sell premium season tickets in an upgraded lower bowl to rich people and businesses at these high prices, with three year commitments, then all the power to them. Go Shapiro Go!

[xposbrad]

tbh it just sounds like the Jays were letting people renew for far below market value, for a long time

 

if Toronto thinks they can sell premium season tickets in an upgraded lower bowl to rich people and businesses at these high prices, with three year commitments, then all the power to them. Go Shapiro Go!

 

Well some of those fans were expecting an increase, just not like 10x for a very mediocre product lol. Obviously at $850+ per seat per game, they aren't the Yankees and won't sell many seats. I mean, unless it only applies to some premium seats but I just don't see anyone shelling that out to watch the blue jays.

[John_Havok]

Well some of those fans were expecting an increase, just not like 10x for a very mediocre product lol. Obviously at $850+ per seat per game, they aren't the Yankees and won't sell many seats. I mean, unless it only applies to some premium seats but I just don't see anyone shelling that out to watch the blue jays.

 

It's 100% catering to the elite. No sane person would expect a middle income family to drop 140K on seasons tickets for the Jays "premium experience" or not.

[Terminator]

I bet all of these people can renew at similar prices for damn good seats still, they just won't be right behind home plate.

 

But who cares, Shapiro needs to keep the money machine rolling to keep the payroll up.

[John_Havok]

I bet all of these people can renew at similar prices for damn good seats still, they just won't be right behind home plate.

 

But who cares, Shapiro needs to keep the money machine rolling to keep the payroll up.

 

Maybe, but then the people who had those seats.... they'd have to renew elsewhere. I get it, it's business, but as a person holding those seasons tickets for 40 years to have them jump in price by 10 times... doesnt seem right.

[DCJaysF]

A lot of talk about the putrid offense (apart from Tuesday). However, if the pitching staff is giving up more than 5 runs, it is on them. 5 runs or less it is on the offense.

 

We are losing a lot of games where the opponent is scoring more than 5 runs..That issue is not going to solved by hitters getting out of slumps etc..

 

Pitching, pitching, pitching..

 

Agreed, pitching is usually the most important ingredient. There are teams winning a lot more games than us with worse overall hitting. But we have the pitching we have, there are more elite rotations than us so we need to make up for that with hitting.

 

I’ve hammered on this in the daily game thread, but I’ll say it here once again. I think we could be scoring a few more runs a game with better line up construction. Bo and Vlad are consistently on base. We’re not cashing them in and have one of the worst runners left in scoring position stats.

 

Yes it’s easy to Monday morning QB, but let’s change it now. Need hitters that cash in runners behind Vlad. How many times have we seen Bo get on base with two outs ( like yesterday) get into scoring position on second and then they don’t even give Vlad a chance. Almost an intentional walk, but just pitch around him instead. Then get Varsho or Chappy out to end the inning.

 

I want Springer ( when he’s healthy) behind Vlad and Belt behind him. My right handed pitcher lineup is Merrifeild, Bo, Vlad, Springer, Belt, Chapman, Kirk, Varsho, KK

 

If Varsho turns things around he can work his way back up the lineup. Chappy can possibly switch with Belt if he gets hot again

 

But Lifetime Springer has greater OPS BA and OBP than Chappy. Also a healthy Brandon Belt lifetime is a better proven lefty hitter than Varsho so far.

 

Don’t strand Bo and Vlad as often and we score more runs, case closed. Stop with the fear of putting two lefty bats back to back. It doesn’t matter much until you get into the opposing teams BP anyways, at which point we can counter with our bench if need be too. We need to lower that runners left in scoring position and you do that with having your second best hitters follow your best hitters.

Edited May 25, 2023 by DCJaysF

[Solaxys]

On the hypothetical that we do end up having our playoff odds dip to under 30%, would you trade Chap at deadline?

[G-Snarls]

Jays should have signed Gary Sanchez.

 

He's available again

 

Would he take a minor league deal now that he's been cut AGAIN??

[John_Havok]

On the hypothetical that we do end up having our playoff odds dip to under 30%, would you trade Chap at deadline?

 

There would have to be a really hard road to the playoffs before this team would even consider sell mode. That said, there's probably multiple guys on the roster right now that won't be at the deadline.

[gruber92]

I hear we're 22nd in bullpen WAR? I thought this pen was top 10 even top 5 with some of the conversations that have been going on here.

[Omar]

I hear we're 22nd in bullpen WAR? I thought this pen was top 10 even top 5 with some of the conversations that have been going on here.

 

We're 11th in WHIP and 12th in era for bullpens thus far in 2023.

[gruber92]

We're 11th in WHIP and 12th in era for bullpens thus far in 2023.

 

Thank goodness Pearson is looking better and better. Romano will regress at some point in the not too distant future. It looks like Pearson will emerge into our closer.

[John_Havok]

I hear we're 22nd in bullpen WAR? I thought this pen was top 10 even top 5 with some of the conversations that have been going on here.

 

Whiff rate is substantially better, HR rate substantially worse which pretty much negated all those whiff rate gains. last year the problem was getting swing and miss, this year its getting them not to hit HRs when they don't swing and miss.

[Jimcanuck]

Whiff rate is substantially better, HR rate substantially worse which pretty much negated all those whiff rate gains. last year the problem was getting swing and miss, this year its getting them not to hit HRs when they don't swing and miss.

 

probably directly related, whiffs come from challenging hitters, HRs come from challenging hitters. to some degree anyway

[Stangstag]

On the hypothetical that we do end up having our playoff odds dip to under 30%, would you trade Chap at deadline?

 

I probably would but 0 chance in hell this front office sells at the deadline

[Key22]

On the hypothetical that we do end up having our playoff odds dip to under 30%, would you trade Chap at deadline?

 

I think the issue is that the Jays are not able to beat any of the teams in our division (good teams) and there is little to no help in the minors coming. The problem is do you really trust Atkins to make a really good trade? If the Jays are in last place at the end of June then they should probably be in sell mode

[glory]

I probably would but 0 chance in hell this front office sells at the deadline

 

Yeah if Atkins is the GM, not only will he not sell, but I don't think any Jays fan would want him to be the one doing the selling.

[Masterbather]

It's getting dark, too dark to see...

[Omar]

It's getting dark, too dark to see...

 

At least wait til September before posting this.

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

 

I want Springer ( when he’s healthy) behind Vlad and Belt behind him. My right handed pitcher lineup is Merrifeild, Bo, Vlad, Springer, Belt, Chapman, Kirk, Varsho, KK

 

If Varsho turns things around he can work his way back up the lineup.

 

 

I really like your lineup