General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Eat My Shatkins]

Paredes produced a .314 xwOBA last season. He produced 31 home runs vs the 24 expected home runs based on quality of contact. I'd sure as hell not offer Tiedemann for a player that relies on wall scraper home runs to produce the bulk of his offensive value.

 

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that the Jays should make that trade.

[G-Snarls]

Ug

 

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Ross Atkins Discusses Current State Of Blue Jays’ Roster

 

By Darragh McDonald | January 3, 2024 at 1:05pm CDT

 

Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins spoke to the media today as the club introduced recent signees Kevin Kiermaier and Isiah Kiner-Falefa. Those comments were relayed by reporters including Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportnet (X links), Shi Davidi of Sportsnet (X link) and Keegan Matheson of MLB.com (X links).

 

“We feel really good about the team that we have,” Atkins said, while acknowledging that further moves could still be forthcoming. “I don’t think we’ll add three players. I think, most likely, that it’s closer to one.” The forthcoming addition would “most likely be in the outfield or DH category, but we’re not limited to that.” When asked if their third baseman was already on the roster, he said that “We feel really good about the team that we have. Between [santiago] Espinal, [Cavan] Biggio and Kiner-Falefa, we have opportunities to deploy different lineups and different players playing third base potentially.” Further moves could change the role for Kiner-Falefa but “There could be a pathway for him to get a lot of third base at-bats the way we’re currently constructed.”

[Spanky99]

Now do Nate Pearson’s

 

And what does that accomplish?

[BigCecil]

Ug

 

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Ross Atkins Discusses Current State Of Blue Jays’ Roster

 

By Darragh McDonald | January 3, 2024 at 1:05pm CDT

 

Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins spoke to the media today as the club introduced recent signees Kevin Kiermaier and Isiah Kiner-Falefa. Those comments were relayed by reporters including Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportnet (X links), Shi Davidi of Sportsnet (X link) and Keegan Matheson of MLB.com (X links).

 

“We feel really good about the team that we have,” Atkins said, while acknowledging that further moves could still be forthcoming. “I don’t think we’ll add three players. I think, most likely, that it’s closer to one.” The forthcoming addition would “most likely be in the outfield or DH category, but we’re not limited to that.” When asked if their third baseman was already on the roster, he said that “We feel really good about the team that we have. Between [santiago] Espinal, [Cavan] Biggio and Kiner-Falefa, we have opportunities to deploy different lineups and different players playing third base potentially.” Further moves could change the role for Kiner-Falefa but “There could be a pathway for him to get a lot of third base at-bats the way we’re currently constructed.”

 

LOL...I'm not going to take this at face value on Jan. 3rd, but if I did, seppuku might be in order.

[Spanky99]

It sure has been gross thus far, but this is posturing.

 

 

RIGHT???

[G-Snarls]

It sure has been gross thus far, but this is posturing.

 

 

RIGHT???

 

Yes, hopefully he's just underplaying his hand

[BigCecil]

The pitching depth could be better, sure, but you have to give the organization actual credit for keeping SPs healthy and for signing SPs with track records of health. They got lucky last year but they kind of planned to get lucky. Also, the RP depth with upside approaching the MLB level is real and should help cushion some injuries.

 

Biggest predictors of pitching health are past IL history and number of pitches thrown. I agree with the bold.

 

I don't think the Jays have any unique IP for "keeping SPs healthy". The Rays lost McLanahan, Springs and Rasmussen last yr, as a well regarded org. Robbie Ray had been a horse, until he wasn't. After all the research its still can be pretty random and unpredictable.

 

One of the theories posed for Manoah's '23 decline was his jump to 196 IP in '22. Who knows? Bassitt hit 200 IP in '23 for the 1st time. Will that affect him @ 35 in 2024?

 

Pitching should remain a relative strength even though its improbable that '23 rotation health will be repeated.

[Spanky99]

Just saw a pic of El Capitan, he looks so much better, it was on OverDrive by the way. Noice!!

[Spanky99]

I don't think there are ANY who would be realistically available

 

Luis Robert the closest but does not project for 4 WAR. Does have 5 WAR upside though.

 

He's basically, untouchable.

[Spanky99]

Toronto uses their own valuation in place of WAR it is more given to me in a context I’d be able to attach to data that I have understanding of.

 

Tiedeman would obviously headline a package but who knows how Toronto internally evaluates certain players. I don’t have the math. It’s just more so they won’t trade him for a rental at this time and if they are moving him it’s going to be for a really good player.

 

It's a good barometer that your buddy provided, thanks for sharing again.

[max silver]

Just saw a pic of El Capitan, he looks so much better, it was on OverDrive by the way. Noice!!

 

Is this picture available somewhere? I saw a workout photo of him earlier in the offseason but he was wearing a loose baggy t-shirt and it was impossible to gauge whether he had slimmed down or not.

[Spanky99]

Yes, hopefully he's just underplaying his hand

 

It has to be, bro. No way this team goes this far and not add 2 power bats as constructed. Or Rogers bowed out.

[Spanky99]

Is this picture available somewhere? I saw a workout photo of him earlier in the offseason but he was wearing a loose baggy t-shirt and it was impossible to gauge whether he had slimmed down or not.

 

Different pic, and I don't know, sorry. He looks good, panel thought so too.

[Carlos Danger]

Anyone have a non paywall link to a video of the whole Atkins press conference?

[Spanky99]

Anyone have a non paywall link to a video of the whole Atkins press conference?

 

Just look for it on youtube. I had watched it on SNNow streaming site, there's no copa pasta.

 

Not much to see CD on the 3rd of January.

 

Actually not discussed yet, but it seemed RA laid on a sword, saying it was more internal issues etc, gave the players a pass.

 

At least when I saw KK on OverDrive, he ultimately said the players that failed RA. Yada... yada

[Terminator]

Biggest predictors of pitching health are past IL history and number of pitches thrown. I agree with the bold.

 

I don't think the Jays have any unique IP for "keeping SPs healthy". The Rays lost McLanahan, Springs and Rasmussen last yr, as a well regarded org. Robbie Ray had been a horse, until he wasn't. After all the research its still can be pretty random and unpredictable.

 

One of the theories posed for Manoah's '23 decline was his jump to 196 IP in '22. Who knows? Bassitt hit 200 IP in '23 for the 1st time. Will that affect him @ 35 in 2024?

 

Pitching should remain a relative strength even though its improbable that '23 rotation health will be repeated.

 

Do the Rays even care about pitcher health? My guess is they care about it less than any other org in baseball. Churn and burn.

 

I agree that the Jays are unlikely to remain so healthy though. It's only a matter of time before some of your pitchers get hurt, even if you're the best. Though you could say that the Jays lost Ryu and Manoah (he had some sort of minor shoulder issue that had to major effectiveness issues) to injury last year.

[L54]

And what does that accomplish?

 

You’re right, nothing could go wrong

[BigCecil]

Do the Rays even care about pitcher health? My guess is they care about it less than any other org in baseball. Churn and burn.

 

I agree that the Jays are unlikely to remain so healthy though. It's only a matter of time before some of your pitchers get hurt, even if you're the best. Though you could say that the Jays lost Ryu and Manoah (he had some sort of minor shoulder issue that had to major effectiveness issues) to injury last year.

 

McLanahan in particular is a massively valuable arm bud. I think they care about the health of their assets. They just produce so many it seems like maybe they chew through them as if it’s an endless resource.

[Spanky99]

You’re right, nothing could go wrong

 

Why are you putting words in my mouth?

[Jimcanuck]

Figure if Padres don't move at least 2 of these big contracts, team goes up for sale

[Terminator]

McLanahan in particular is a massively valuable arm bud. I think they care about the health of their assets. They just produce so many it seems like maybe they chew through them as if it’s an endless resource.

 

Yeah they care, especially with him, but do they care as much as the Jays who sign guys in their 30s to 5 year deals?

 

My guess is that they don't emphasize it nearly as much nor should they. And the endless resource plays a part in that as well. If the Rays 45 FV pitcher gets better results by throwing harder and throwing more sliders they will accept the risk and have him do it knowing that they have a guy waiting in the wings once his arm implodes.

[Spanky99]

Yeah they care, especially with him, but do they care as much as the Jays who sign guys in their 30s to 5 year deals?

 

My guess is that they don't emphasize it nearly as much nor should they. And the endless resource plays a part in that as well. If the Rays 45 FV pitcher gets better results by throwing harder and throwing more sliders they will accept the risk and have him do it knowing that they have a guy waiting in the wings once his arm implodes.

 

lmao

[Krylian]

Yes, hopefully he's just underplaying his hand

 

Under promise and over deliver? Boy...I sure hope so, but I'd be lying if I was confident this team shores up is holes before the start of the season.

[Spanky99]

Under promise and over deliver? Boy...I sure hope so, but I'd be lying if I was confident this team shores up is holes before the start of the season.

 

U say THIS EVERY YEAR!!!

[Pendleton]

[Omar]

It has to be, bro. No way this team goes this far and not add 2 power bats as constructed. Or Rogers bowed out.

 

Hope so. You just know the Doom/Gloom fanboys licking their chops right now.

 

First spring training game is 52 days away:cool:

[Krylian]

U say THIS EVERY YEAR!!!

 

And every year they aren't good enough

[Eat My Shatkins]

And every year they aren't good enough

 

Every year all teams but one aren't good enough, you aren't really going out on any limbs with your prediction of doom.

 

But whatever floats your boat I guess.

[Krylian]

Every year all teams but one aren't good enough, you aren't really going out on any limbs with your prediction of doom.

 

But whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

There's a difference between assertively building a team that you're very confident in, and it just didn't work out, and putting bandaids on a team, thinking it's "good enough" and you'll hope for the best if you can squeeze into the post season.

 

Last year they actually did a solid job. I was never sold on the offence (although I had no idea it would be that terrible) but I generally liked the team. Aside from last year, I've never thought the team was good enough to be a serious contender... Not since 2015

[Brownie19]

There's a difference between assertively building a team that you're very confident in, and it just didn't work out, and putting bandaids on a team, thinking it's "good enough" and you'll hope for the best if you can squeeze into the post season.

 

Last year they actually did a solid job. I was never sold on the offence (although I had no idea it would be that terrible) but I generally liked the team. Aside from last year, I've never thought the team was good enough to be a serious contender... Not since 2015

 

That's an interesting observation. Pre-season, you were really happy with the team (most were) and thought they had a legit shot. However, we ran into some really shocking and unexpected s***** years from several regulars and we sputter into a WC birth, s*** the bed and go home. The team may essentially roll out a very similar team in 2024 and that won't be good enough for you - we need to do better, which I assume you believe simply based on the results of last year. The issue is all the variability in the potential outcomes each year. If you simulated 2023 100 times, we might actually win the WS 5 times and win a playoff round or 2 like 60% of the time - yet rolling the dice with the same squad is deemed unacceptable, simply because it failed last year.