General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Terminator]

The Giants are looking for SS depth and pitching. Might be a good place to offload Espinal.

 

Or- package an Espinal and Manoah.

 

I could see a fit there. The Braves literally have ZERO bench so I could see a fit there as well. And when I say ZERO I mean it. David Fletcher (who was outrighted to AAA already), Leury Garcia and our old friend Forrest Wall are currently taking up their bench spots right now on Roster Resource.

 

They may want one or even two guys from us. One of Espinal, Biggio and Clement and then perhaps even Horwitz who could split time with Ozuna at DH.

[Spanky__99]

"He received some interest from the Blue Jays this winter but it appears he will hang up his spikes instead."

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

 

f***er dissed us twice.

[Krylian]

Michael Brantley's choices were retire or play for Toronto.

 

He chose to retire.

 

Says a lot about ROSS if we are being honest.

 

Are we 100% sure that it isn't the city? I mean, aside from hockey, has Toronto ever been a hot spot for free agents? I don't want it to be true, but we can't just ignore that it's never really been easy to lure the best FAs. It's been much worse for the Raptors, but it's been a challenge for the Jays too.

[Brownie19]

Would a combination of Teo and then either Soler or Joc add enough umph to the lineup? KK acts as the 4th OFer and Biggio/Schneider/IKF fight it for AB's at 2nd and 3rd?

[John_Havok]

Are we 100% sure that it isn't the city? I mean, aside from hockey, has Toronto ever been a hot spot for free agents? I don't want it to be true, but we can't just ignore that it's never really been easy to lure the best FAs. It's been much worse for the Raptors, but it's been a challenge for the Jays too.

 

It’s one of those things that many MLB players seem to have some pre-formed opinion about, but any who actually come here always say it’s one of the best experiences they have and never have a bad thing to say about the city or the org.

 

NBA though is such a different beast. It’s much easier to become the face of a league when the sport is much more individualistic than baseball. Raptors just don’t have any visibility south of the border so players just want to go elsewhere for the spotlight I guess.

[deanmike]

Would a combination of Teo and then either Soler or Joc add enough umph to the lineup? KK acts as the 4th OFer and Biggio/Schneider/IKF fight it for AB's at 2nd and 3rd?

 

Based on contract projections for these guys Jays won't have enough room under the 2nd tax threshold (their likely internal payroll cap for 2024) to add Teo and Soler/Joc, even if they end up trading Espinal and his 2.5M arb projection.

[Terminator]

Would a combination of Teo and then either Soler or Joc add enough umph to the lineup? KK acts as the 4th OFer and Biggio/Schneider/IKF fight it for AB's at 2nd and 3rd?

 

I just don't see the need to add Teo on a 3 or 4 year deal when he's not even that much of an improvement over KK.

 

In fact, Steamer thinks he's worse on a per game basis and that tracks because KK was better than Teo was last year too. And that goes for most of the LF/DH types out there. So I'd rather see a smaller signing like Duvall or Grichuk who could platoon with KK.

 

I do like the idea of bringing in a DH with some thump though. So maybe Teo fits there but we could also go with Joc, Soler, Hoskins, JDM, etc.

[Brownie19]

Sorry - I should have clarified that we'd be getting these guy on short term deals as the market for them simply doesn't appear to have formed. There certainly seems to be A LOT of sluggers who can't field who are still available and spring training isn't far away (just got tickets to see the Braves / O's at the new stadium in North Port).

 

Could you get either Teo or Soler 2 years $30M and then Hoskins or Joc for 1 year $15M?

[Spanky__99]

Sorry - I should have clarified that we'd be getting these guy on short term deals as the market for them simply doesn't appear to have formed. There certainly seems to be A LOT of sluggers who can't field who are still available and spring training isn't far away (just got tickets to see the Braves / O's at the new stadium in North Port).

 

Could you get either Teo or Soler 2 years $30M and then Hoskins or Joc for 1 year $15M?

 

I knew what you meant, pillow contract on Hoskins and Teo would be sexy.

[deanmike]

I just don't see the need to add Teo on a 3 or 4 year deal when he's not even that much of an improvement over KK.

 

In fact, Steamer thinks he's worse on a per game basis and that tracks because KK was better than Teo was last year too. And that goes for most of the LF/DH types out there. So I'd rather see a smaller signing like Duvall or Grichuk who could platoon with KK.

 

I do like the idea of bringing in a DH with some thump though. So maybe Teo fits there but we could also go with Joc, Soler, Hoskins, JDM, etc.

 

If by platoon with KK you mean Varsho shifts to CF and Duvall/Grichuk plays LF, it seems the team might be planning to use Babe Schneider in that role to start 2024. If you mean a double platoon where Davis Schneider still plays LF against LHP starters and Duvall/Grichuk starts at CF, that's an interesting idea although I doubt the team sees Varsho as a non everyday player. That would basically make him a strong side platoon LF.

 

If I had to rank those DH options I would probably go with

1) Hoskins, signing him to be the everyday 1B would allow the team to move Vlad to full time DH where he belongs.

2) Soler, everyday bat who can see some games in RF too if needed

3) Joc, strong side platoon bat who can see some games in the OF too if needed

4) Teo, despite being an everyday RF I have him lower than Joc because I just don't want him back. Maybe having an everyday RF like Teo would help manage Springer's health because it would basically make him the DH, although I really don't want to see Teo and his atrocious OF defense back.

5) JDM, I would rather see butcher RF Teo back than add a DH-only type like him. We already have a future DH-only type in Vlad Jr.

[TheHurl]

I wouldn’t be surprised if between now and ST if we signed Joc and stuck OR if they pulled a monster impact deal none of us saw coming.

 

I would be shocked if there was an impact deal before Summer

[max silver]

Signing Soler to DH might be the only way to salvage this disastrous off-season.

 

This team still has zero Power.

 

What would be wrong with someone like JD Martinez, Rhys Hoskins or Joc Pederson? I want an above average bat DH type added and all of these could reasonably be expected to supply a similar amount of overall offense to Soler.

 

The team has Vlad who is a 30 home run bat, Bo, Springer and Varsho who can be expected to produce 20-25 home runs, and Jansen who is a 15 home run bat with potential for more if he finally stays healthy. Schneider might be a 15-20 home run type of bat as well depending on playing time. But this is a team with zero power to you? Ok then.

[max silver]

If by platoon with KK you mean Varsho shifts to CF and Duvall/Grichuk plays LF, it seems the team might be planning to use Babe Schneider in that role to start 2024. If you mean a double platoon where Davis Schneider still plays LF against LHP starters and Duvall/Grichuk starts at CF, that's an interesting idea although I doubt the team sees Varsho as a non everyday player. That would basically make him a strong side platoon LF.

 

If I had to rank those DH options I would probably go with

1) Hoskins, signing him to be the everyday 1B would allow the team to move Vlad to full time DH where he belongs.

2) Soler, everyday bat who can see some games in RF too if needed

3) Joc, strong side platoon bat who can see some games in the OF too if needed

4) Teo, despite being an everyday RF I have him lower than Joc because I just don't want him back. Maybe having an everyday RF like Teo would help manage Springer's health because it would basically make him the DH, although I really don't want to see Teo and his atrocious OF defense back.

5) JDM, I would rather see butcher RF Teo back than add a DH-only type like him. We already have a future DH-only type in Vlad Jr.

 

I'd wait to see how Vlad looks this season before handing Hoskins a full time first base position. Vlad and Hoskins generally have produced similar defensive metrics aside from Vlad's poor 2023 showing. Aside from that Hoskins is coming back from major knee surgery so playing him in the field everyday is a remarkably bad idea.

[Jonn]

This will shock you, but Mark Feinsand of MLB is reporting the Blue Jays are showing interest in Soler.

 

[Jonn]

What would be wrong with someone like JD Martinez, Rhys Hoskins or Joc Pederson? I want an above average bat DH type added and all of these could reasonably be expected to supply a similar amount of overall offense to Soler.

 

The team has Vlad who is a 30 home run bat, Bo, Springer and Varsho who can be expected to produce 20-25 home runs, and Jansen who is a 15 home run bat with potential for more if he finally stays healthy. Schneider might be a 15-20 home run type of bat as well depending on playing time. But this is a team with zero power to you? Ok then.

 

I mean I would love JD Martinez for 1 year as well. We know he can hit. Hoskins is kind of wild card because he just missed an entire year but he does have power that could explode somewhere. But Joc Pederson is not a guy I have no idea will show up engaged and in shape.

 

Soler just seems like the best option to plug into the lineup and will give us 30-35 Homeruns at that position which we need. He could also occasionally play LF unlike the others.

[Carlos Danger]

I mean I would love JD Martinez for 1 year as well. We know he can hit. Hoskins is kind of wild card because he just missed an entire year but he does have power that could explode somewhere. But Joc Pederson is not a guy I have no idea will show up engaged and in shape.

 

Soler just seems like the best option to plug into the lineup and will give us 30-35 Homeruns at that position which we need. He could also occasionally play LF unlike the others.

 

Team Soler here. If he can hit like that in Marlin's Park, he can rock the Rogers Center.

[max silver]

Team Soler here. If he can hit like that in Marlin's Park, he can rock the Rogers Center.

 

Rogers Center was a pretty extreme pitchers park in year 1 after the renovations. It remains to be seen how it plays long term but it's far from a given that it will be any more hitter friendly moving forward.

[Terminator]

Rogers Center was a pretty extreme pitchers park in year 1 after the renovations. It remains to be seen how it plays long term but it's far from a given that it will be any more hitter friendly moving forward.

 

It should definitely swing back the other way some with the fairly significant reduction of foul territory but idk by how much.

[MikeM3]

Glad we dodged Brantley

[Jonn]

Glad we dodged Brantley

 

Brantley is a fantastic hitter just no confidence he would stay healthy.

 

I don’t take his decision as any disrespect to the Jays. A player to prepare for a Major League season has to make a physical commitment to his body to prepare for a long Season. Its very likely he himself didn’t want to go through that again. Considering all the time he has spent rehabbing the last several years as well. Rehab and training for a physical grind is not easy. You can’t half ass it otherwise you see the results of players who show up out of shape and not prepared to play and compete.

[Carlos Danger]

Rogers Center was a pretty extreme pitchers park in year 1 after the renovations. It remains to be seen how it plays long term but it's far from a given that it will be any more hitter friendly moving forward.

 

Regardless, the fact he has shown he can hit in a pitcher friendly venue, and is not being propped up by a bunch of band boxes, is a positive metric for me.

[MikeM3]

Brantley is a fantastic hitter just no confidence he would stay healthy.

 

I don’t take his decision as any disrespect to the Jays. A player to prepare for a Major League season has to make a physical commitment to his body to prepare for a long Season. Its very likely he himself didn’t want to go through that again. Considering all the time he has spent rehabbing the last several years as well. Rehab and training for a physical grind is not easy. You can’t half ass it otherwise you see the results of players who show up out of shape and not prepared to play and compete.

 

Exactly. He'd just get hurt and mail it in

[max silver]

Regardless, the fact he has shown he can hit in a pitcher friendly venue, and is not being propped up by a bunch of band boxes, is a positive metric for me.

 

I looked up Soler's splits for 2023 and it was 114 wRC+ at home vs 138 wRC+ away. I'm far from married to the idea of signing Soler as he's a positively awful defender and was basically a league average bat for 3 of the last 4 years. Give me JDM, Hoskins or Pederson any day of the week on sensible 1 or 2 year deals.

[Jonn]

Regardless, the fact he has shown he can hit in a pitcher friendly venue, and is not being propped up by a bunch of band boxes, is a positive metric for me.

 

Jorge Soler also hit 48 Homeruns for the Royals. Kauffman Stadium is usually always in the top 10 for being pitchers friendly. Large gaps for more Doubles and Triples though.

[Jonn]

I looked up Soler's splits for 2023 and it was 114 wRC+ at home vs 138 wRC+ away. I'm far from married to the idea of signing Soler as he's a positively awful defender and was basically a league average bat for 3 of the last 4 years. Give me JDM, Hoskins or Pederson any day of the week on sensible 1 or 2 year deals.

 

Soler is a DH so his negative Defense will have zero impact. Joc Pederson is also a horrendous defensive player. And JD Martinez and Hoskins might not even be able to physically play a defensive position. Hoskins was a train wreck at 1B.

[max silver]

Soler is a DH so his negative Defense will have zero impact. Joc Pederson is also a horrendous defensive player. And JD Martinez and Hoskins might not even be able to physically play a defensive position. Hoskins was a train wreck at 1B.

 

If a guy can reasonably be penciled in to provide well above average offense I can live with a few innings in the field here and there. I just think that Soler's offensive output has been so variable year over year it's hard to know what to expect from him moving forward. Only 2 of his last 5 seasons are actually good offensively so he carries a lot of risk. His expected stats typically look very solid but more often than not this hasn't led to good results on the field. If he takes a 3 year deal then I'd far prefer the team move onto other options.

[Spanky__99]

Soler is a DH so his negative Defense will have zero impact. Joc Pederson is also a horrendous defensive player. And JD Martinez and Hoskins might not even be able to physically play a defensive position. Hoskins was a train wreck at 1B.

 

He was better than Vladito.

[Spanky__99]

Soler suxxxxxxx

[Frenchsoup]

BNS saying the Jays are in on Jorge Polanco. Would be a nice bat and pretty solid 2nd baseman for us. Could slide Biggio to OF/1b. Platoon Davis Schneider with Jorge.

[Brownie19]

If a guy can reasonably be penciled in to provide well above average offense I can live with a few innings in the field here and there. I just think that Soler's offensive output has been so variable year over year it's hard to know what to expect from him moving forward. Only 2 of his last 5 seasons are actually good offensively so he carries a lot of risk. His expected stats typically look very solid but more often than not this hasn't led to good results on the field. If he takes a 3 year deal then I'd far prefer the team move onto other options.

 

I agree - he's been volatile, so unless there's something to prove he figured something out last year, it's a bit scary locking in a DH for more than 1 or 2 years - even if you think he can stand out there in LF a bit like Schwarber. Joc has been a bit similar...he went through a funk for like 3 years, then lit it up in 2022 and fell back to earth a bit last year (although the peripheral numbers were still pretty good). I honestly think you wait this s*** out and sign whomever is left out of JDM, Joc, Soler, Hoskins. Not sure you want to commit more than 1 year for any of them. If I have to go 2 years with any of them, it's probably Soler