General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[RustyTrombone]

That's my point. You and masturbator are saying that there are ways to deal with fat players and options was mentioned multiple times. Other than that or benching him what are you suggesting?

 

You drill it into their fat f***ing heads in spring training that its unacceptable to show up grossly over weight and make sure to work them over harder than the other guys with conditioning drills. Threaten them with less privileges when the team is on the road, like earlier curfew, no fancy suites at hotels, ride the back of the bus, access to lesser quality spreads, kangaroo court fines for everyday their over their weight limit.

 

Point being there are plenty of things that can be done besides playing time/optioning them to the minors.

[Terminator]

Those are the primary options and you establish that before the off-season in private to give them a fair chance to get in shape, offer them all the resources in the world, their own chef and trainer the whole nine yards. At that point, if you've told them what you expected of them, and it's a reasonable thing to expect, and you've given them the resources, and they flat out refuse then you can't go forward with players like this. You can't have core pieces who don't want to be professionals, and professionals have to take their bodies seriously.

 

The alternative is to send a message to everyone in your organization that you're not going to take fitness and nutrition seriously, to run these guys out there and then what? Do you lock them up to long-term contracts with those bodies? Do you wait for them to break down and then try to trade them? You can't count on them long term so if you have to cut bait then cut bait.

 

You guys are nuts lol. No way we cut bait on Kirk simply bc he's fat in order to "send a message."

[connorp]

The last time I remember this was an issue, was Panda bear and the Red Sox. Forget the details without Googling

[Jonn]

I’m shocked Sherm didn’t have a stroke when he saw Biggio was hitting third.

[max silver]

You drill it into their fat f***ing heads in spring training that its unacceptable to show up grossly over weight and make sure to work them over harder than the other guys with conditioning drills. Threaten them with less privileges when the team is on the road, like earlier curfew, no fancy suites at hotels, ride the back of the bus, access to lesser quality spreads, kangaroo court fines for everyday their over their weight limit.

 

Point being there are plenty of things that can be done besides playing time/optioning them to the minors.

 

I have a hard time seeing how any of this would fly in the days of modern sports. Think about how powerful player unions are and how much control players have in sports in general and then ask yourself if any of these suggestions are even remotely possible.

[Brownie19]

You drill it into their fat f***ing heads in spring training that its unacceptable to show up grossly over weight and make sure to work them over harder than the other guys with conditioning drills. Threaten them with less privileges when the team is on the road, like earlier curfew, no fancy suites at hotels, ride the back of the bus, access to lesser quality spreads, kangaroo court fines for everyday their over their weight limit.

 

Point being there are plenty of things that can be done besides playing time/optioning them to the minors.

 

I think you'd have a lot more success if it were their teammates who came to them and said this wasn't acceptable. The vets should be all over these guys - explaining this may be their last chance at a championship and their fitness level is diminishing the chances. Teammates holding each other accountable is often 10x more successful than coaches telling them.

[Terminator]

You drill it into their fat f***ing heads in spring training that its unacceptable to show up grossly over weight and make sure to work them over harder than the other guys with conditioning drills. Threaten them with less privileges when the team is on the road, like earlier curfew, no fancy suites at hotels, ride the back of the bus, access to lesser quality spreads, kangaroo court fines for everyday their over their weight limit.

 

Point being there are plenty of things that can be done besides playing time/optioning them to the minors.

 

Lol good luck with that

[Masterbather]

You guys are nuts lol. No way we cut bait on Kirk simply bc he's fat in order to "send a message."

 

Actually sending a message is very important, you have to establish what will and won't go in your organization, no one player is going to be bigger than the organization, ever.

 

But the other point of it is you can't count on them long-term, you can't count on bodies like that and attitudes like that, it's going to f*** you in the end if you don't get rid of people who refuse to be professional. Sure it's possible that maybe you can remain an obese everyday player and not break down until you're in your mid-30s but the odds are against it.

[Terminator]

I’m shocked Sherm didn’t have a stroke when he saw Biggio was hitting third.

 

I'm a fan! Remember?

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/11136-Announcement-from-the-Sheriff

[wilko]

So are you guys saying we should bench Kirk bc he's fat and play Heineman?

 

I would. Move Varsho to catcher (he's putting up s***** catcher numbers anyway) and put Kirk on a liquid diet.

[RustyTrombone]

I have a hard time seeing how any of this would fly in the days of modern sports. Think about how powerful player unions are and how much control players have in sports in general and then ask yourself if any of these suggestions are even remotely possible.

 

If you have some fat dudes who suck major ass and make no effort to shed the weight and complain to the union when they get called out on it and get punished then I dont think you really want those types of people on your team. You move on from them no matter how much of a good player they are. Take the best offer you can get and move on.

[Terminator]

I would. Move Varsho to catcher (he's putting up s***** catcher numbers anyway) and put Kirk on a liquid diet.

 

Good idea. We should build a jail cell with a giant hamster wheel inside of it down at the complex in Dunedin. Option Kirk to the FCL and lock him in there and only give him access to water and a head of lettuce each day until the playoffs start. Crank the heat up to 120 degrees as well.

 

By the time playoffs start call him back up and he should be a good 30 pounds lighter. The World Series will be easy to make.

[RustyTrombone]

I think you'd have a lot more success if it were their teammates who came to them and said this wasn't acceptable. The vets should be all over these guys - explaining this may be their last chance at a championship and their fitness level is diminishing the chances. Teammates holding each other accountable is often 10x more successful than coaches telling them.

 

Ya I agree the teammates have a huge part of it. Thats why I mentioned the kangaroo court aspect of it, the senior players on the team can roast the f*** out of the fat dude and make him pay XXX amount of money.

[jaysblue]

Maybe next offseason, the Jays target players in better shape!

[L54]

Good idea. We should build a jail cell with a giant hamster wheel inside of it down at the complex in Dunedin. Option Kirk to the FCL and lock him in there and only give him access to water and a head of lettuce each day until the playoffs start. Crank the heat up to 120 degrees as well.

 

By the time playoffs start call him back up and he should be a good 30 pounds lighter. The World Series will be easy to make.

 

Why would you do that?

[L54]

I think you'd have a lot more success if it were their teammates who came to them and said this wasn't acceptable. The vets should be all over these guys - explaining this may be their last chance at a championship and their fitness level is diminishing the chances. Teammates holding each other accountable is often 10x more successful than coaches telling them.

 

agree that some veteran leadership would help reinforce the point. But you also need management on board for accountability and resources

[Masterbather]

Ya I agree the teammates have a huge part of it. Thats why I mentioned the kangaroo court aspect of it, the senior players on the team can roast the f*** out of the fat dude and make him pay XXX amount of money.

 

That s*** doesn't happen anymore. Guys are too soft and everyone's too sensitive. You're not allowed to have that kind of leadership anymore.

[John_Havok]

Cool, well said. Now who's at fault? lol

 

Still the player. It's always the player

[Nexii]

Fans can be justifiably frustrated. I mean it's not just one player on the Jays but 3 of our star players. I can't recall another team ever having such issues with player conditioning.

 

Teams aren't going to dump or send down young players for being overweight because they're underpaid vs the free market.

 

The carrot should be there already, Vlad/Kirk/Manoah are all already worth millions less than they otherwise would be.

 

Not sure there's really a great solution for players being lazy. It's just bad luck really, no different than teams who end up with players who get suspended for DUI/abuse/perving on minors

[John_Havok]

This mouth breather has 10x the amount of time in sports than you. Might even be 100x to be honest

 

For you to sit here and tell me that the Toronto Blue Jays, a professional sports team have no control over the physical conditioning of their players actually just confirms that you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about so I’ll forgive your ignorance

 

Forgive all you want. If you like I could get their Dietician over email and ask her to lay it out for you.

[L54]

I think the disconnect between sides is that the naysayers are equating this to punishment or authoritarian rule. Like Babcock demanding to see your pics

 

If I was in charge I would:

 

Meet with Player X and all relevant departments (psych, nutrition, S&C, data, physio)

 

Discuss the season at a personal level. Good and bad. Acknowledge that it wasn’t where either party wants to be

 

Give Player X opportunity to disclose any nagging injuries. Address those immediately in the offseason

 

Run relevant baseline data to reference during the offseason

 

Set goals in conjunction with Player X that are both achievable and timely

 

Develop offseason training blocks and dietary guidelines

 

Establish accountability check ins (weekly, biweekly)

 

Doing this with the player gives them a level of buy in because they were a part of the process. Creating accountability check ins allows both parties to be held somewhat responsible with the end result

 

Honestly I would do this with the entire 40 man roster if I was GM. Players who have proven they have a strong system in place don’t necessarily need to use team resources. Players who haven’t met expectations will be given every resource necessary.

[L54]

Forgive all you want. If you like I could get their Dietician over email and ask her to lay it out for you.

 

Yes I know you are studying nutrition congratulations. Should’ve just taken the PN course for 1000 bucks

[Masterbather]

I think the disconnect between sides is that the naysayers are equating this to punishment or authoritarian rule. Like Babcock demanding to see your pics

 

If I was in charge I would:

 

Meet with Player X and all relevant departments (psych, nutrition, S&C, data, physio)

 

Discuss the season at a personal level. Good and bad. Acknowledge that it wasn’t where either party wants to be

 

Give Player X opportunity to disclose any nagging injuries. Address those immediately in the offseason

 

Run relevant baseline data to reference during the offseason

 

Set goals in conjunction with Player X that are both achievable and timely

 

Develop offseason training blocks and dietary guidelines

 

Establish accountability check ins (weekly, biweekly)

 

Doing this with the player gives them a level of buy in because they were a part of the process. Creating accountability check ins allows both parties to be held somewhat responsible with the end result

 

Honestly I would do this with the entire 40 man roster if I was GM. Players who have proven they have a strong system in place don’t necessarily need to use team resources. Players who haven’t met expectations will be given every resource necessary.

 

Sure, that's the easy part, the discussion here is what do you do if they just don't buy in? There are those of us that say, at some point you have to have balls as an organization, and there's others that say no balls necessary.

[John_Havok]

Yes I know you are studying nutrition congratulations. Should’ve just taken the PN course for 1000 bucks

 

Yeah if you want to work for nobody important, have 0 accreditation and basically be worthless..sure.

[L54]

Sure, that's the easy part, the discussion here is what do you do if they just don't buy in? There are those of us that say, at some point you have to have balls as an organization, and there's others that say no balls necessary.

 

My point is that this doesn’t have to be some ruling with an iron fist like others equate it to

 

You will know before spring even comes if there is no adherence. Ramifications will have to be a case by case basis

[L54]

Yeah if you want to work for nobody important, have 0 accreditation and basically be worthless..sure.

 

Lmao okay

 

Sick name drop I always hoped to meet someone who knew the Jays dietitian’s email

[THANOS]

Sure, that's the easy part, the discussion here is what do you do if they just don't buy in? There are those of us that say, at some point you have to have balls as an organization, and there's others that say no balls necessary.

 

I agree. I feel like Vladdy would buy in, he's lost weight before and wants to be great and carry his team. Kirk has come into seeing training just as fat each season and I'm assuming management has encouraged him to change his diet and exercise plan, so maybe a more strict process should be implemented for him.

 

Manoah is where this gets interesting. He's up his own ass and is already fighting the FO tooth and nail and refusing demotions. He's entitled. He's also a guy that's prideful of his own gym and his offseason plan and tweets responses at any media member bringing up his weight. I'm not sure how you'd get him to buy into anything. Maybe you just leave him to his own devices and see if he figures things out on his own for next Spring, but you sign a 5th starter type regardless because you can't rely on him.

[hanton]

Vlady has bought in a while ago, not sure if people just have short memories or truly don't know, his workout videos in the dr are on youtube

[John_Havok]

Vlady has bought in a while ago, not sure if people just have short memories or truly don't know, his workout videos in the dr are on youtube

 

Exercise is about 20% of the solution. Can exercise all you want but if you eat like a human garbage disposal it won't matter much.

[hanton]

Exercise is about 20% of the solution. Can exercise all you want but if you eat like a human garbage disposal it won't matter much.

 

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